Identified! CA - Fontana, WhtFem 662UFCA, 25-35, hit by car, Aug'85 - Marguerite O'Brien

New Posts

I agree. The facial profiles look so similar and she is from upstate NY near Binghamton, so I did not want to discount it, but I would have thought the coroner in CA would have identifyed no appendix, so most likely not her.
pearly said:
The only thing I am concerned about is the fact that if she had her appendix removed, the coroner would definitely had picked this up and mentioned it in his report.

My only worry :(
Click to expand...
 
I've been going back over some of the possibles mentioned in this thread, Googling them in the hope of finding more info on them.

Julianne Cecilia Jaillett - I've only found the same information posted over and over.
It seems as though there is no information available (online anyway) as to the circumstances of her disappearance.
I think she still bears looking into, MOO.

Lisa Karen Addington - I found a post here that appears to be from her siblings.
"We are tring to locate anything on our sister. Lisa Karen Addington.
She disappeared on 18 may 1984, only 3 days before she was to be married.
The police have listed her case as open, but not hopeful. So much time has
passed that we feel that she may have been killed.

1 year prior to her disappearance she had been forced by her parents to
place her daughter up for adoption. We have also prayed to one day learn
something about her and hope that good people have and that she is being
well loved. we also hope that she comes to us and not our parents.
our contact is madnh...@rapfire.net
thanks
Perry Lee and Deborah Ann Addington "

I don't know if that adds anything to our attempts to identify this Jane Doe but it sounds as though there may have been things going on in her personal life that would make her want to leave, voluntarily.

Linda Rachel Preva - Again, just the same info posted over and over, with nothing regarding the circumstances of her disappearance. Another who merits further consideration, MOO.

Linda Rose Grimm - Her height is listed as 5'2" which probably excludes her from being our Jane Doe (whose height is listed as 5'8"). She also appears in her photos to have fairly good teeth, but that's just an untrained observation on my part.

Leichia M. Reilly - She has a large scar on her knee but no mention of any abdominal scars.

Karen Louise Wilson - Her height is listed as 5'3" which makes her too short. Also, I lived in the area when she disappeared and it was a BIG DEAL. Everyone believed that she was taken against her will and still does to this day. There was nothing about her to indicate she would voluntarily disappear. Although I do realize that has no evidentiary value. :)
 
I would just like to post the full questions and answers sent to me by the Coroner the other day ( I had posted parts of this however I did not include all of all the answers which is an error on my behalf).

I hope this helps everyone: - If anyone has any further questions I will be sure to pass them one :)

Email in bold

Questions and Attempt at answers:

Q #1 – “the left ovary and uterus were absent, were you able to determine whether she had ever given birth? I was also curious at why a doctor would remove one ovary and not the other?”



A #1a: Not being a physician, I will answer from a layperson’s perspective (who happens to have been a medico-legal death investigator for 17 years): A patient being treated for a cyst or tumor (benign or otherwise) may undergo a partial hysterectomy. Nowadays they would likely remove both ovaries, but back then they were concerned with leaving a healty ovary for hormone production – or so I’ve been told.



A #1b: pregnancy cannot be determined by gross examination. However, we may see the evidence when we exhume her body for DNA. Pregnancy may be evidenced by its effect on the pelvic bones – dorsal pitting and a pre-auricular sulcus.



Comment: None of that is particularly useful to us. If a matching missing person was never known to have been pregnant or had surgery when they disappeared, that does mot tell us anything about what happened ten minutes AFTER they went missing. For all we know Linda Smith left home and immediately became pregnant and/or went right to a doctor to have surgery. Nor does the absence of evidence on the skeleton mean that they person was never pregnant.


Q #2 - “Another member would like to know whether a sketch was done to see what she looked like prior to being hit by the vehicle (I am presuming this has not been done obviously as it isn't on NAMUS).”



A #2: I have very little faith in artist renderings or facial reconstructions. I recognize that they have done some good in the past, but they have done real harm as well. People have a tendency to see similarity when they want it to be a match, and dissimilarity when they don’t. If you or I think Jane Doe looks like someone on the web, does that mean that this is her? No, of course not – many people have similar features and nobody looks quite themselves after they’ve been hit by a car. We would need to proceed to identifiers (fingerprints, dental records, and DNA). If I am shown a photo of a missing woman and I DO NOT believe that it is Jane Doe, does that mean it isn’t her? Hell no. I have confirmed the identity on lots of people that I was convinced by a photo COULD NOT be the decedent. If our efforts always must end with identifier records to confirm, why don’t we just start there? If investigators do their job, and submit their missing person’s fingerprints, dental records, and DNA into searchable databases we won’t have to guess – we will know.



Feel free to disagree.

Q #3 – “I am particularly interested in the pieces of paper found, are you or Rebecca able to provide me with any more information as to what happened when you followed these up? On the one saying 'Kelly' it appears that it was written on some type of hotel receipt. the rusty and lincoln hotel pieces of paper appear to be written on the same type of paper. The insuance piece of paper also appears to have something written on it although so far I cannot make it out. (Maybe I should direct these questions to Rebecca if she has the time).”



A #3: I did some basic searches on the information on the papers. Enough to be satisfied that the Lincoln Hotel is in Bingham, NY and that J.C. is probably Johnson City (could be Jersey City, but Johnson City had an exact Main St. address. I called the phone numbers for area codes in Wisconsin (the insurance company paper), New York, New Jersey, and a few others. I did not reach any residences. Does this mean it is a dead end? No. But, will I continue down that lead-path? No. If “Rusty” wasn’t at the listed number, then imagine the time that I would waste searching for everyone named “Rusty” (and only a small percentage of men called “Rusty” were actually given the name “Rusty” – it is most typically a nickname).



Comment: My purpose for posting those documents is a hope that the missing person’s family will see these and recognize the constellation of clues they represent (someone with that handwriting who went to Wisconsin and knew Rusty and Kelly). Also, I am hoping someone smarter than me will make something of it that I can’t. I just hope that they also have the initiative to follow-up rather than just bird-dog for me.
 
Julessleuther said:
Thank you! I questioned that above too, but did not hear anything. Johnson City Ny is right near Binghamton, so it would make sense that it was that Johnson City. Is the Johnson City search all because of the JC in the address? Could it just be initials for a business or a person?
Click to expand...

Correct, the Johnson City searches are all because of the JC. The coroner thought it probably was Johnson City, because of it's closeness to Binghamton. You are right in that it could be initials for a person or business and not be Johnson City at all..
 
Hi guys,
I just wanted to clarify something that I have not worded very well on here,what I wanted to say below is that David Van Norman (the coroner) has followed up on all the leads provided to him, this is his job. Essentially he has done what he can and now he is hoping that a family member or someone may see something that he is unable too. I hope this clarifies this, by no means did I intend to portray that David was not doing his job. :)

Hi raindrops at this point in time the coroner has not done enough follow up ( this isnt his job) with respect to the pieces of paper in Cherry Doe's possession to know for certain the exact addresses. I emailed the people at the address in VA to see if it could provide us with any clues as it seemed to fit with some of the information on the paper. JC etc I am not saying it is definitely the address on the paper it is just a hunch.
 
I would like to provide us all with a little inspiration...and to introduce you to an amazing woman who was once like many of us are now (in the sense of searching missing persons sights and UID sights for matches etc). Her name is Rebecca and she work alongside David Van Norman (the coroner) on this case as well as being the Director of the Missing Children's Poster Partner's which she founded in 2005. She has the hard yet rewarding task of working alongside missing teenage runaway's families when they have no where else to turn. David informs me that she has volunteered some 1700hrs of her time to helping him just amazing....what an amazing woman...if only there were more Rebecca's in the world! :clap:

Now Rebecca has kindly passed information onto me after perusing our site with regards to some of the girls we suspect may be possible comparisons (information in bold)

"possible matches to Jane Doe #13-85 (CC #73787).

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1030dfbc.html
Marilyn Ann Moore DOB: 09/25/1951

NO NCIC RECORD


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/474dftx.html

RANFT, KATHLEEN LAURA DOB/19560218

RULED OUT BY 2 IRRECONCILABLE DENTAL INCONSISTANCIES


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1699dfwa.html

JAILLET, JULIANNE CECILIA DOB/19490128

DENTALS CHARACTERSITICS NOT IN NCIC – DNA AVAILABLE

In addition...

Comparison requests that have already been sent to the missing person's investigating agency:
10/01/01 - M098223045 - Wendy Gay Riley

09/26/02 - M212593422 (Kimberly Kahler)
05/25/04 - MP Dorothy Taylor (Concard PD - CA)

Hope this gets us thinking again :)

Pearly
 
She is correct about Rusty being a nickname. I have a brother named Russell, and when he was little we called him Rusty.

pearly said:
I would just like to post the full questions and answers sent to me by the Coroner the other day ( I had posted parts of this however I did not include all of all the answers which is an error on my behalf).

I hope this helps everyone: - If anyone has any further questions I will be sure to pass them one :)

Email in bold

Questions and Attempt at answers:

Q #1 – “the left ovary and uterus were absent, were you able to determine whether she had ever given birth? I was also curious at why a doctor would remove one ovary and not the other?”



A #1a: Not being a physician, I will answer from a layperson’s perspective (who happens to have been a medico-legal death investigator for 17 years): A patient being treated for a cyst or tumor (benign or otherwise) may undergo a partial hysterectomy. Nowadays they would likely remove both ovaries, but back then they were concerned with leaving a healty ovary for hormone production – or so I’ve been told.



A #1b: pregnancy cannot be determined by gross examination. However, we may see the evidence when we exhume her body for DNA. Pregnancy may be evidenced by its effect on the pelvic bones – dorsal pitting and a pre-auricular sulcus.



Comment: None of that is particularly useful to us. If a matching missing person was never known to have been pregnant or had surgery when they disappeared, that does mot tell us anything about what happened ten minutes AFTER they went missing. For all we know Linda Smith left home and immediately became pregnant and/or went right to a doctor to have surgery. Nor does the absence of evidence on the skeleton mean that they person was never pregnant.


Q #2 - “Another member would like to know whether a sketch was done to see what she looked like prior to being hit by the vehicle (I am presuming this has not been done obviously as it isn't on NAMUS).”



A #2: I have very little faith in artist renderings or facial reconstructions. I recognize that they have done some good in the past, but they have done real harm as well. People have a tendency to see similarity when they want it to be a match, and dissimilarity when they don’t. If you or I think Jane Doe looks like someone on the web, does that mean that this is her? No, of course not – many people have similar features and nobody looks quite themselves after they’ve been hit by a car. We would need to proceed to identifiers (fingerprints, dental records, and DNA). If I am shown a photo of a missing woman and I DO NOT believe that it is Jane Doe, does that mean it isn’t her? Hell no. I have confirmed the identity on lots of people that I was convinced by a photo COULD NOT be the decedent. If our efforts always must end with identifier records to confirm, why don’t we just start there? If investigators do their job, and submit their missing person’s fingerprints, dental records, and DNA into searchable databases we won’t have to guess – we will know.



Feel free to disagree.

Q #3 – “I am particularly interested in the pieces of paper found, are you or Rebecca able to provide me with any more information as to what happened when you followed these up? On the one saying 'Kelly' it appears that it was written on some type of hotel receipt. the rusty and lincoln hotel pieces of paper appear to be written on the same type of paper. The insuance piece of paper also appears to have something written on it although so far I cannot make it out. (Maybe I should direct these questions to Rebecca if she has the time).”



A #3: I did some basic searches on the information on the papers. Enough to be satisfied that the Lincoln Hotel is in Bingham, NY and that J.C. is probably Johnson City (could be Jersey City, but Johnson City had an exact Main St. address. I called the phone numbers for area codes in Wisconsin (the insurance company paper), New York, New Jersey, and a few others. I did not reach any residences. Does this mean it is a dead end? No. But, will I continue down that lead-path? No. If “Rusty” wasn’t at the listed number, then imagine the time that I would waste searching for everyone named “Rusty” (and only a small percentage of men called “Rusty” were actually given the name “Rusty” – it is most typically a nickname).



Comment: My purpose for posting those documents is a hope that the missing person’s family will see these and recognize the constellation of clues they represent (someone with that handwriting who went to Wisconsin and knew Rusty and Kelly). Also, I am hoping someone smarter than me will make something of it that I can’t. I just hope that they also have the initiative to follow-up rather than just bird-dog for me.
Click to expand...
 
Why is Kimberly Kahler being looked at? Because she is from the area? She would only have been 16 in 1985, and more than likely not have her uterus removed at such a young age?
pearly said:
I would like to provide us all with a little inspiration...and to introduce you to an amazing woman who was once like many of us are now (in the sense of searching missing persons sights and UID sights for matches etc). Her name is Rebecca and she work alongside David Van Norman (the coroner) on this case as well as being the Director of the Missing Children's Poster Partner's which she founded in 2005. She has the hard yet rewarding task of working alongside missing teenage runaway's families when they have no where else to turn. David informs me that she has volunteered some 1700hrs of her time to helping him just amazing....what an amazing woman...if only there were more Rebecca's in the world! :clap:

Now Rebecca has kindly passed information onto me after perusing our site with regards to some of the girls we suspect may be possible comparisons (information in bold)

"possible matches to Jane Doe #13-85 (CC #73787).

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1030dfbc.html
Marilyn Ann Moore DOB: 09/25/1951

NO NCIC RECORD


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/474dftx.html

RANFT, KATHLEEN LAURA DOB/19560218

RULED OUT BY 2 IRRECONCILABLE DENTAL INCONSISTANCIES


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1699dfwa.html

JAILLET, JULIANNE CECILIA DOB/19490128

DENTALS CHARACTERSITICS NOT IN NCIC – DNA AVAILABLE

In addition...

Comparison requests that have already been sent to the missing person's investigating agency:
10/01/01 - M098223045 - Wendy Gay Riley

09/26/02 - M212593422 (Kimberly Kahler)
05/25/04 - MP Dorothy Taylor (Concard PD - CA)

Hope this gets us thinking again :)

Pearly
Click to expand...
 
What about Terrie Lynn Hefner:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/116dftx.html
Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: August 11, 1964
Age at Time of Disappearance: 19 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5; 120 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: A mole on right cheek.
AKA: Terrie Davis
Dentals: Hefner has a chipped front tooth.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Hefner was a resident of Texas when she disappeared in April 1984. She was last seen in Dallas, Texas. Hefner may have traveled to Louisiana.
 

Attachments

  • THefner.jpg
    THefner.jpg
    6.5 KB · Views: 21
  • THefner1.jpg
    THefner1.jpg
    10 KB · Views: 17
Julessleuther said:
She is correct about Rusty being a nickname. I have a brother named Russell, and when he was little we called him Rusty.
Click to expand...

Hi Jules,
the q&A was provided by David Van Norman the coroner and the information regarding the missing women was provided by Rebecca who helps him.

I'm not too sure why they were checking the women out in the "in addition" section if you like I can try and find out.
 
pearly said:
What about Terrie Lynn Hefner:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/116dftx.html
Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: August 11, 1964
Age at Time of Disappearance: 19 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5; 120 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: A mole on right cheek.
AKA: Terrie Davis
Dentals: Hefner has a chipped front tooth.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Hefner was a resident of Texas when she disappeared in April 1984. She was last seen in Dallas, Texas. Hefner may have traveled to Louisiana.
Click to expand...

I think she does resemble our Jane Doe.
Did you notice she's described as having blonde hair but her hair is definitely brown in her photo and the age progression?
 
pearly said:
Another possible:
Anna T Dimmitt
missing since 1984 after she was released from Whichita Falls Hospital, has several missing teeth! If the Kelly piece of paper pans out to be the Rehabilitative Services Department linking people with disabilities etc with employment oppourtunities then perhaps this girl is a possible she has similar facial structure!
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2379dftx.html
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/mpdetails.asp?id='M6/14/20078:31:10AM'
Dentals avail :clap:
Click to expand...


My biggest concern here is that Anna is listed as being 5'1" which is about 7 inches shorter than our Jane Doe.
 
jessunlil said:
I think she does resemble our Jane Doe.
Did you notice she's described as having blonde hair but her hair is definitely brown in her photo and the age progression?
Click to expand...

Yep I did notice that I think we have to be weary about the way in which the missing persons descriptions are placed e.g. height and so forth maybe the picture is a better guide then the actual figures beside it????
 
For everyone to note - Kelly Kay McGinnis was ruled out as a potential match for this Jane Doe (I have noted this in my file).
 
Nancy Marie O'Sullivan
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/52dfil.html
She disappeared in 1974 at the age of 15 but her facial structure reminds me of our Cherry Doe.

Rachel Elizabeth Garden
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/66dfnh.html

Kathryn Elizabeth Collins
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/93dftx.html
She's listed as being 5'5" but thought I'd list her, just in case.

Kerry Lynelle Johnson
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/150dfor.html

Louise Davis
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/183dfoh.html
No height or weight range provided.

Laureen Ann Rahn
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/204dfnh.html
She's probably too young and too short but, just in case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 129 more.
Total: 4,508 (members: 130, guests: 4,378)

Online statistics

Members online
130
Guests online
4,378
Total visitors
4,508
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,487
Messages
17,969,681
Members
228,788
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top