CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

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shana said:
Yes, the 'explanation' for Hannah's visit in desperation at 1:40 am was that she had suffered a bad week since her cat died, or words to that effect.

btw, from my accounting, Hannah's visit was 3-4 months after the Harts moved-in to the home in May, 2017; therefore, and another article so confirms, around September, 2017 - not recently.

~jmo~
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The most recent article I read said she had gone over covered in blackberry weeds about 8mo ago. I can’t imagine. I’m literally buying a weed dragon propane torch thing because the blackberry vines that have overtaken 1/5 of my garden and are so painful with their hairy thorns I can’t get them out by hand and none of our local landscaper guys will even mess with it. I’d get goats but am sort of in a city. I cannot fathom how scared she must have been to jump two stories into that pile of nothing but pain.


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About the distended belly and references to starving African children...

Someone posted (yesterday, I think?) about the possibility of kwashiorkor, fwiw.

~jmo~
 
shana said:
Thank you. Ah, so they weren't feeding their family from food that they grew? ;-> There are fall and winter veggies...if one plans ahead.

~jmo~
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It looks like they were revamping. That is what new planters with only three with dirt in them says to me. For what it's worth, I don't plant in winter. At this altitude I could only get greens in the winter and I can buy those easier than I can trek through snow. I don't know exactly what the climate there is though.

Edited to say....I did have leeks and onions quite a bit into winter, but they died off or I used them all months ago.
 
dyannaON said:
I wonder what made Hannah run to the neighbours in such a state. Shivers. Poor girl.


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She ran from an abusive situation (putting it mildly) and likely at a time that she felt so desperate that she would escape from a 2nd-story window and run for help from the nearest neighbor. She was reportedly covered in weeds from her run, per the DeKalbs.

~jmo~
 
LietKynes said:
RSBM

That pic with the white T-shirt.... no words.
The only time I've seen photos with that level of starvation is pictures of children in Africa for a Unicef or World Vision(?) ad.
Horrible women.
Can't say one is innocent if she witnessed abuse and did nothing to stop it.
:moo:
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I agree with you. I can't feel bad for her watching her children starve. She was complicit at the very least.

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Talulah said:
It looks like they were revamping. That is what new planters with only three with dirt in them says to me. For what it's worth, I don't plant in winter. At this altitude I could only get greens in the winter and I can buy those easier than I can trek through snow. I don't know exactly what the climate there is though.

Edited to say....I did have leeks and onions quite a bit into winter, but they died off or I used them all months ago.
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I live in CA and grew veggies year-round. Can't speak for WA state but I bet there are ways.

ETA: In the photo I saw, there were many beds...8 or more? I wish I'd saved that pix so I could review w/o having to search.

~jmo~
 
I’m in zone 7a, there are a lot of vegetables that overwinter. We have broccoli, lettuce, spinach and a ton of different herbs up now.

Lettuces, pak choi, kale, mache, parsnips, leeks, cauliflower can all overwinter in zone 7... Also, every responsible gardner I know is well versed in preserving their harvest. Canned, dehydrated and frozen vegetables will certainly last and feed a family. Things like potatoes and carrots can be stored in sand in a basement or cool space. IMO if they needed food they would have qualified for food benefits just from looking at an asst mgr salary and the number of dependents in the home.


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Gah I don’t like the new update and it doesn’t like me. Here is the zone map
e45a40734b9ab8481f949b54fe35f9dc.jpg



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I have been trying to figure out if Washington Medicaid will pay for bridges/partials for children. I believe that Hannah would have had to have a bridge or implants to repair her front teeth. I don't think Medicaid in any state will pay for implants. They may or may not pay for a bridge. I am leaning towards not. It is possible that the cost was too prohibitive for the family. If that was my child, I would have financed it, but I'm just offering another perspective beyond Hannah not wanting her teeth repaired or our supposition that she had a dentist phobia. I am curious how it happened, but it seems obvious they have been that way a while. It could have been a standard childhood accident. The best bet would have been to have restoration done right after she lost them.

https://www.hca.wa.gov/free-or-low-cost-health-care/apple-health-medicaid-coverage/dental-services
 
It's possible they were just hobby gardeners. Or that they had another plot.
 
I'm not going to say they were absolutely malnourished, but they certainly appear painfully thin for 6 children of different parentage.
 
Okay, so I of course have no idea what was going on with this particular family, and lots of people are naturally small and thin, and maybe the kids' early trauma has contributed to their size, but--

There is a real, if unspoken, stigma against having "fat kids" in this social class. Fat kids mean you let them eat garbage, not organic veggies; it means you let them sit around playing video games instead of appreciating nature, etc. It means you failed to save your kids from the worst parts of contemporary, capitalist society. Basically, many people in socially progressive, liberal circles (which I'm certainly a part of) look upon overweight kids as visual representations of *bad parenting.* No one would ever say this out loud. But it's understood.

Parents who are obsessed with projecting an image of themselves as the most perfect, most progressive parents ever would be invested in making sure none of their kids are fat. AND if they happen to be abusers, too, then keeping food from their kids would kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Again, have no idea if this applies to this family or not. Seems to fit with the narrative we're working out, though.
 
maggieo said:
Okay, so I of course have no idea what was going on with this particular family, and lots of people are naturally small and thin, and maybe the kids' early trauma has contributed to their size, but--

There is a real, if unspoken, stigma against having "fat kids" in this social class. Fat kids mean you let them eat garbage, not organic veggies; it means you let them sit around playing video games instead of appreciating nature, etc. It means you failed to save your kids from the worst parts of contemporary, capitalist society. Basically, many people in socially progressive, liberal circles (which I'm certainly a part of) look upon overweight kids as visual representations of *bad parenting.* No one would ever say this out loud. But it's understood.

Parents who are obsessed with projecting an image of themselves as the most perfect, most progressive parents ever would be invested in making sure none of their kids are fat. AND if they happen to be abusers, too, then keeping food from their kids would kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Again, have no idea if this applies to this family or not. Seems to fit with the narrative we're working out, though.
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Yeah, I've seen this with certain middle and upper class people. I remember a woman at work talking very derisively about how her kid would not be *fat* no matter what she had to do. My own father made my little brother run laps around the house when he got a little belly right before puberty.
 
Let's get back on topic, folks.

Stop the bickering and the back and forth about how to approach strangers for hair product advice or cooking advice.

None of this is doing anything to help figure out where these 3 missing children are.
 
This is all MOO only, and somewhat anecdotal, but it’s something I’ve continued to think about. I was abused by my mom growing up. As I got older, it got worse. The less I “needed” her, somehow the more I was punished. Now my mother is an unmedicated BPD and I can not diagnose either of these two women obviously, so who knows what role mental health played in this. But I wonder if as the kids became more independent, less malleable and willing to “perform” (if this was the case - I’m not saying it was) then that could certainly have led to systematic escalation of abuse, IMO, if we accepted that theory. It would also play into what someone asked, what would be the benefit of keeping them looking younger/thinner than children their ages - it was part of an attempt to hold onto their “good” little kids - or it was simply abuse and withholding food - or both. Or none of that. But to be needed, to be seen in a certain light, to dictate...there is nothing quite like the adoration of a little one. Perhaps no longer being adored or seen as saviors was starting to cause issues. I don’t know. I’m rambling.


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I have one very skinny child and one that’s not. Again.. I don’t think these kids are malnourished. But I do think they played favorites a lot. And I think Jen is a monster who abused her kids by withholding food and being abusive. The favoritism is very clear in the Sarah’s Birthday Adventure video. I’m hoping Devonte was hoarding food to make a run for it. And I’m hoping he took the kids with him that would go. And they are still out there somewhere, too scared to come home.

Again... with these new pictures... the kids clothes fascinate me. Lots of time and attention and money and energy to keep them all dressed the same way, in general. And a lot of them aren’t Kohl’s clothing. Under Armour didn’t make it to Kohl’s until last year. I noticed designer jeans in some pictures/videos. Chuck Taylor shoes. I have three kids and to keep them in matching clothes would be horrifying because they have growth spurts at different times. It suggests to me that they shopped before any “outing” or “photo op.”

This case is baffling to me. I admit. I keep wanting to make sense of it but I cannot come to any other conclusion than Jen was a monster.

What were Markis’ long term plans? He’s 19. Did any of these friends sticking up for them now ever ask?
 
"Kwashiorkor is a form of severe protein–energy malnutrition characterized by edema, and an enlarged liver with fatty infiltrates. Sufficient calorie intake, but with insufficient protein consumption, distinguishes it from marasmus"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwashiorkor

Sufficient calories but insufficient protein--that would track with a "fad diet" type regime where he was being fed raw juices or whatever but not enough nuts, tofu, meat, etc.
 
MINNESOTA-MOM said:
I have one very skinny child and one that’s not. Again.. I don’t think these kids are malnourished. But I do think they played favorites a lot. And I think Jen is a monster who abused her kids by withholding food and being abusive. The favoritism is very clear in the Sarah’s Birthday Adventure video. I’m hoping Devonte was hoarding food to make a run for it. And I’m hoping he took the kids with him that would go. And they are still out there somewhere, too scared to come home.

Again... with these new pictures... the kids clothes fascinate me. Lots of time and attention and money and energy to keep them all dressed the same way, in general. And a lot of them aren’t Kohl’s clothing. Under Armour didn’t make it to Kohl’s until last year. I noticed designer jeans in some pictures/videos. Chuck Taylor shoes. I have three kids and to keep them in matching clothes would be horrifying because they have growth spurts at different times. It suggests to me that they shopped before any “outing” or “photo op.”

This case is baffling to me. I admit. I keep wanting to make sense of it but I cannot come to any other conclusion than Jen was a monster.

What were Markis’ long term plans? He’s 19. Did any of these friends sticking up for them now ever ask?
Click to expand...

It is possible to dress very well from thrift stores. Especially in Portland. The Goodwill there is phenomenal. In a lot of photos I see the kids in very different clothing which seems to speak to their individual tastes. The hats, that's a Portland/PNW thing. Very common to see kids in different hats, trying out different periods of clothing. There is a lot to critique this family on, but, in my opinion, the clothing of the kids isn't high on my list. IMO
 
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