Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[human]

I grew up saying "Yes sir" to my father in certain situations (like if I was in trouble or he was explaining something super important). My mother was much more laid back and I never called her ma'am. I have friends who grew up saying ma'am and sir to their parents. It doesn't seem strange to me.

Of all the weird things that have happened in the Hart family the "Ma'am" thing seems innocuous.

Being from MN, no one I ever knew used “yes sir or ma’am” except for a couple of exceptions. When we wanted to joke about someone being too bossy, we would say, “yes sir “ to either a female or male.

My friend’s incredibly sick and controlling and abusive husband made the kids say, “Yes sir.” Being from MN, we found that horrifying.

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[human]

That wasn't the question, though. I was answering what was asked.

I am pointing out that they were not from the south so it would not be a usual thing to grow up with.

 

[deugirtni]

I likewise know southerners whose children call them "sir" and "ma'am". I didn't realize it might be an upper midwest thing as well. If a family has a military heritage I also can understand it being a standard form of address.

The idea of the child running into these strangers' house, then up the stairs to the second floor, in the middle of the night, and cowering between pieces of furniture, disturbs me far more. And that the Hart parents tracked her down and entered the DeKalb house without apparent permission from the owners is simply stunning. Who does that? (Seriously – who isn't afraid they would be risking being shot as home invaders for doing something like that, in the US, in the dead of night? Who wouldn't at least knock first?)

I am not enthused with the DeKalbs' overall reactions in this case, but this first encounter with the unknown kid next door and her obliviously pushy parents must have utterly dumbfounded them.

If the situation was seriously as it was put forth, I think I would have called police. Just too weird. jmo.

 

[kizzykat]

I'm bringing a post over from the last thread because it made me think of something. Either someone here commented or I read it in MSM that autopsies would be able to show prior physical abuse (broken bones that healed, etc.). Makes me sad thinking of it, but I wonder if anything came of that? Or would the condition the childrens bodies might've been in from the wreck be a hindrance? And if there was malnutrition, or physical side effects from lack of nutrition, wouldn't an autopsy show that? My question doesn't come from a place of morbid fascination, it's more along the lines of giving a voice to the children, if that makes sense.

Originally Posted by mommylicious Couple of questions:

1. Do you think LE has more information about the events leading up to the crash that they haven't shared or are they as in the dark as the rest of us?
2. Do you think we will ever know what happened to Hannah and Devonte?
3. Why do you think *this* CPS visit caused them to run?
4. What one question do you wish LE would answer/info they'd share?

 

[bluesneakers]

I am pointing out that they were not from the south so it would not be a usual thing to grow up with.

It is a Southern thing for sure, but not just a Southern thing. So maybe they weren't from the South but that doesn't mean it was unusual. The South is known for good manners but Yankees and Westerners are familiar too.

 

[bluesneakers]

If the situation was seriously as it was put forth, I think I would have called police. Just too weird. jmo.

I would have too. A kid running upstairs in a strange house? I don't want to judge the DeKalbs, but I would have called.

 

[Aescwynn]

I am pointing out that they were not from the south so it would not be a usual thing to grow up with.

And we can spend all day throwing out examples and counter-examples, such as how I can assure you that there are people in Minnesota who aren't abusive who have their kids call them "yes, sir". The world is a very big place with all sorts of people in it. There are even people in the South who find all our "Yes, Ma'am"'ing to be ridiculous, notably my husband's Iowan mother. What of it?

 

[human]

I'm bringing a post over from the last thread because it made me think of something. Either someone here commented or I read it in MSM that autopsies would be able to show prior physical abuse (broken bones that healed, etc.). Makes me sad thinking of it, but I wonder if anything came of that? Or would the condition the childrens bodies might've been in from the wreck be a hindrance? And if there was malnutrition, or physical side effects from lack of nutrition, wouldn't an autopsy show that? My question doesn't come from a place of morbid fascination, it's more along the lines of giving a voice to the children, if that makes sense.

They would certainly know right away about bones. Old fractures would be healed. Who knows the condition of bodies falling that distance . And wouldn’t things be hitting them because of no seat belts.

I wonder why more is not being said such as the autopsy results. Even if to say whether fractures were found, If they were alive. Alive means the blood was flowing so there would be bruises. No bruises, not alive.

 

[?mysterian?]

I'm bringing a post over from the last thread because it made me think of something. Either someone here commented or I read it in MSM that autopsies would be able to show prior physical abuse (broken bones that healed, etc.). Makes me sad thinking of it, but I wonder if anything came of that? Or would the condition the childrens bodies might've been in from the wreck be a hindrance? And if there was malnutrition, or physical side effects from lack of nutrition, wouldn't an autopsy show that? My question doesn't come from a place of morbid fascination, it's more along the lines of giving a voice to the children, if that makes sense.

I hope that the reason the autopsy results and the motor vehicle collision report haven't been released is because the Hart's toxicology results are still pending.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I think it's more prevalent in the South but happens everywhere. I've never lived in the South but don't find it odd or chilling when someone refers to a parent as "Ma'am" or "Sir."

South Dakota

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[human]

And we can spend all day throwing out examples and counter-examples, such as how I can assure you that there are people in Minnesota who aren't abusive who have their kids call them "yes, sir". The world is a very big place with all sorts of people in it. There are even people in the South who find all our "Yes, Ma'am"'ing to be ridiculous, notably my husband's Iowan mother. What of it?

Exactly, There are examples of anything anywhere. I simply point out it is not common where I lived. I point out that it stands out where I lived.

My friend moved from MN to the state of Viriginia, She said where she lives, there is no skim milk and people look at her in wonderment.

Things are different in different places. At one time, vegans were considered bizzaros, living only on the Left Coast ( the Left Coast auotmatically gives an impression). Now being a vegan is mainstream.

When something is not usual, it stands out. The “ma’am “ stood out to the DeKalb’s as it would to me.

Where I live, they eat fish eyes from fish they catch right in the ocean. It stands out to me. To everyone who lives here, they would not even notice.

 

[deugirtni]

I was in the middle of posting this response to someone else's post when the thread was closed.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ino-Cty-26-Mar-2018-6&p=14073966#post14073966

Dont get me started with that .. Looking for her 15 min of fame and she should not be deemed a credible source.

Interesting person.. if you google?

 

[human]

South Dakota

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Lol re the South Dakota.

 

[bluesneakers]

Also from the previous thread - a story about Jeremiah breaking into the neighbor's car because the red light kept blinking inside. Wouldn't the family's own car have that blinking light? Couldn't Jen have explained it to him? I mean she was homeschooling the kids after all, it would have taken 10 minutes to explain. Easy peasy. To me it sounds like a story to cover up whatever reason he broke into the neighbor's car, if it in fact happened.

So now I'm left wondering - WHY would he break into their car? Or was the entire thing fabricated?

Friend of Jennifer Hart said she never heard missing Hannah Hart speak

 

[deugirtni]

Where did it ever come from that dental care was never sought for the kids? It was said that a dentist hadn't been located who had treated the kids (see quote below), however that doesn't necessarily mean that none of them were ever treated by a dentist in their lifetime. Dental records may have been found subsequently to the article below and we weren't necessarily notified, or it's possible that visits were sporadic, scattered, non-committal, and no 'regular' dentist existed, and so maybe more difficult for dentists to locate 'transient patients' within their systems? If a child was in pain due to having a cavity or their teeth knocked out, surely they wouldn't leave the kids in pain without treatment? I guess one never knows, but we did also read about the possibility of a 'retainer' for HH, according to the FBI missing persons bulletin for her.

"Lt. Shannon Barney, a sheriff's office spokesman, said Friday that authorities can't rely on dental records to identify the body that was recovered last weekend because authorities haven't been able to find a dentist who treated the children."
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-...f/2018/04/devonte_harts_biological_mom_t.html

 

[deugirtni]

Also from the previous thread - a story about Jeremiah breaking into the neighbor's car because the red light kept blinking inside. Wouldn't the family's own car have that blinking light? Couldn't Jen have explained it to him? I mean she was homeschooling the kids after all, it would have taken 10 minutes to explain. Easy peasy. To me it sounds like a story to cover up whatever reason he broke into the neighbor's car, if it in fact happened.

So now I'm left wondering - WHY would he break into their car? Or was the entire thing fabricated?

Friend of Jennifer Hart said she never heard missing Hannah Hart speak

Without knowing anything else about that, the first thing I thought of was that JH was into exploring how things worked, which kind of would indicate that Jeremiah H had some kind of intelligence that he was not credited with having (by Jennifer H apparently). After reading a little more about HH telling the neighbors that her mother*s* were 'racist', it makes me wonder if the story was told for other reasons. Funny/interesting that the neighbors don't seem to mention about this 'break-in' of their vehicle by one of the children? Did it even happen?

 

[deugirtni]

Lol re the South Dakota.

Silly me didn't 'get it' until you posted that, thanks.

 

[?mysterian?]

Also from the previous thread - a story about Jeremiah breaking into the neighbor's car because the red light kept blinking inside. Wouldn't the family's own car have that blinking light? Couldn't Jen have explained it to him? I mean she was homeschooling the kids after all, it would have taken 10 minutes to explain. Easy peasy. To me it sounds like a story to cover up whatever reason he broke into the neighbor's car, if it in fact happened. So now I'm left wondering - WHY would he break into their car? Or was the entire thing fabricated? Friend of Jennifer Hart said she never heard missing Hannah Hart speak

Hmmm. This article http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article208294694.html discusses a Hart boy's, possibly Devonte, incident with a neighbor's car. From the article: "...One day, Groener walked onto his porch and saw a Hart boy crawling inside his old Buick. He watched as the boy — who he later thought was Devonte — scampered next door. Later, Groener went to talk to his parents.“Sarah was upset that happened. Not blazing mad,” he said. “She had said he had a mom who used drugs and he had some emotional deficiencies because of that.”..."

 

[gcharlie]

Also from the previous thread - a story about Jeremiah breaking into the neighbor's car because the red light kept blinking inside. Wouldn't the family's own car have that blinking light? Couldn't Jen have explained it to him? I mean she was homeschooling the kids after all, it would have taken 10 minutes to explain. Easy peasy. To me it sounds like a story to cover up whatever reason he broke into the neighbor's car, if it in fact happened.

So now I'm left wondering - WHY would he break into their car? Or was the entire thing fabricated?

Friend of Jennifer Hart said she never heard missing Hannah Hart speak

Good thinking. Looks like the 2003 GMC Yukon had the anti theft passlock system as standard equipment.

An early article with the West Linn neighbor included a report about one of the boys breaking into his car. So part of what Jen told her friend Nusheem may have been true and other parts not so true.

 

[deugirtni]

In all kinds of news reports it states that CPS showed up just after 'JH' arrived home from work, and she did not answer the door: "DeKalb said he called the state's Child Protective Services office on March 23. Officials arrived just after Jennifer Hart came home from work, but she didn't answer the door, he said. Sarah Hart came home soon after that, DeKalb said. By the next morning, the family and its vehicle were gone."
(http://www.phillytrib.com/news/hart...cle_c85e256c-13a0-5d23-ac4e-940c95c3d788.html).

I thought that JH stayed home schooling the children and did not work outside of the home?