CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Tortoise]

After listening to Boles testimony, I am convinced that what we think should be logical when it comes to these cell phones and cell records should be clear and easy, but I just don't think it's as simple as saying "this one is closer so it should hit off of that". Time of day, how busy towers are, the height of the tower, elevation, etc. I have looked and the tower location (Miliken Ave?) that both Joey's and Chase's cell phones hit was an a hospital or medical center, as discussed in Boles testimony, different cell companies will typically have a tower in the same location if it's considered "prime location"

McGee used these call times as an example ... and I was able to go back and look at the maps that we did get to "see" from Boles.

On Feb 3rd at 8:49am, Chase hit a tower off of I15.
On Feb 4th at 11:58, Joey hit a tower in the same location.

Both had towers that 'appear' to be much closer, and it would seem logical that they should have hit one closer. In testimony that we heard but could not see, McGee showed a picture of those towers. It is most likely because of the elevation of that area. I have attached snips from the relevant times.

It is also my opinion that Chase and Cathy had the worst phone service ever, or phones or something, any of the call records that I have been able to see, this dropping of calls and short duration of calls happened all the time.

All JMO

Joey's phone moved to the closer tower, Chase's didn't move. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to change it, but I'm just pointing out a meeting is not based in any direct evidence, it's based on Chase's word with no cctv footage or any sighting, and as the murder accused he has an incentive to make up his own narratives to best suit his defense. When he was interviewed his narrative involved Joey handing over all those cheques dated the 4th, which Chase would go on to create after that date.

My opinion is also based on Chase driving to Fallbrook after Joey called him at 5.47 pm. It makes more sense to me that if Joey was expecting him and was ambushed in his office, also knowing that Chase backed into the driveway which indicates an expected arrival rather than a hidden one, that two meetings in one day, especially after a 2 hour lunch, would not be necessary.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think the DT will tell the judge they want to declare the family members as hostile witnesses.

They will for DK though trying to project he has something to hide. That's a typical game the defense plays with the SODDI who's been selected as IT.

But as you say, they are really adversarial witnesses or unwilling witnesses that have been forced to testify for the defense.

I hope the state is allowed to ask each one if they wanted to testify for the defendant or were subpeoned, and had no choice in the matter.

Whatever, I believe all of the family members will be truthful, and honest.

The state would already know they were on the defense witness list so this way the state gets to ask leading questions.

Jmo

In legal argument a few days ago the prosecutor said that once he is notified of the defense witnesses he will be asking for a hearing to determine what areas the defense will be allowed to go into with these witnesses (he mentioned Susan Blake, Patrick McStay and Summer's sister) because he said most of what they know would be hearsay and he didn't want to have to keep objecting during examination of the witnesses. Dan wasn't mentioned.

 

[Edmo]

Jailhouse recordings: If YOU are ever incarcerated, do NOT talk about your crime on the Telephone, Visiting Room Telephone, or even to another inmate/visitor, EVER ! There is 0 expectation of privacy while in custody. The only place that can NOT be recorded is your visitation in an Attorney's Booth.

 

[Edmo]

Jailhouse recordings: The DT were provided with the recordings w/o any prejudice.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I went back through 4 years of emails and it turns out I did not send it. So now it is sent. I did make a suggestion of how it could be used but they know what they're doing.

I'm not sure if the defense will even bring up his health issues. It seems to be a losing argument at this point. I just hope Merritt doesn't drop dead before justice is rendered.

What did you suggest that would prevent Chase from having a relapse after all that exertion?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The tire tracks could be that simple.

I have no idea why he decided the 4th was the day commit murder? Maybe the walls were closing in on him?

Oh no doubt the walls were closing in, and collapsing on top of him, just like it is in his trial.

But really how does anyone else know why murderers choose the days they do to murder?

For those who do not, and never would murder anyone it would be like trying to read tealeaves, trying to understand things that arent understandable or logical in the first place.

We could ask that about every murderer who has ever killed.

I imagine in this case it was the day when CM had the MEANS, MOTIVE, and OPPORTUNITY to do so, just like anyone who commits murder on the day of their own choosing.

Imo

 

[Edmo]

Judge Smith: He may be slow, but he is paying attention to his case. That is the only compliment I can give him so far. LOL

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Joey's phone moved to the closer tower, Chase's didn't move. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to change it, but I'm just pointing out a meeting is not based in any direct evidence, it's based on Chase's word with no cctv footage or any sighting, and as the murder accused he has an incentive to make up his own narratives to best suit his defense. When he was interviewed his narrative involved Joey handing over all those cheques dated the 4th, which Chase would go on to create after that date.

My opinion is also based on Chase driving to Fallbrook after Joey called him at 5.47 pm. It makes more sense to me that if Joey was expecting him and was ambushed in his office, also knowing that Chase backed into the driveway which indicates an expected arrival rather than a hidden one, that two meetings in one day, especially after a 2 hour lunch, would not be necessary.

JMO

Like I have said many times, I thirst for your posts, Tortoise.

Your theories are always well thought out from beginning to end. You always base it on what has been learned.

You have such a gift when presenting your theories, backed up with what has been learned, and adding your logic, and common sense to them.

You would make an excellent juror for you fully grasp what is important, and why.

Since I've been reading your theory about the supposed meeting on the 4th, I've come to believe you are exactly right.

Please keep posting your thoughts/theories, and I assure you they are being read. Not just by me or others who post here, but by others who are following this case without posting.

Jmo

 

[Edmo]

Jailhouse recordings: The DT does NOT want CM's debt to JM entered into evidence via CJ. At this point, the Pros claims it was $42K PLUS $15k that CM was in debt to JM. Just wow! And the COURT agreed !!

 

[coastal]

Jailhouse recordings: The DT does NOT want CM's debt to JM entered into evidence via CJ. At this point, the Pros claims it was $42K PLUS $15k that CM was in debt to JM. Just wow! And the COURT agreed !!

Follow the money...

 

[Edmo]

Jailhouse recordings: CM attempted to persuade CJ that he was owed $$ from JM, which in fact is NOT true, which the State has PROVEN toward their motive as greed. Also, witness tampering.

IF CM is innocent, why would he want CJ to testify he was owed $$ from JM? Explain that !

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Jailhouse recordings: The DT does NOT want CM's debt to JM entered into evidence via CJ. At this point, the Pros claims it was $42K PLUS $15k that CM was in debt to JM. Just wow! And the COURT agreed !!

So the judge ruled it couldnt come in?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, CM was standing right over Joey sitting at his desk. And Joey opened QuickBooks under threat.

That mental image makes me feel so sad for Joey, and his family. He had to know they were all in grave danger once CM entered their home that day.

I pray with all my heart, and soul Joey, and Summer weren't forced to watch as he killed their little boys, one by one.

Jmo

 

[Edmo]

So the judge ruled it couldnt come in?

No, he ruled that her testimony could come in. But, the jailhouse recordings SHOW that CM was attempting to get her to "remember" that JM owed him money, not that CM was in debt to JM. The State had previously proven that FACT! I'm not sure if the DT will call her now?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Judge Smith: He may be slow, but he is paying attention to his case. That is the only compliment I can give him so far. LOL

That is really what matters the most.

Nothing gets by him. You can tell he is a well seasoned judge.

Imo

 

[wary]

I’d like to know how classifying someone as a hostile witness works. Any of our lawyers care to speak up? @gitana1?

My unprofessional understanding is that the difference is that, with a hostile witness, lawyers can cross-examine, (ask leading questions of), a witness that they have called. That’s quite an advantage.

So, I’m wondering if they can get that declaration up front, or if they have to wait until the witness actually behaves hostilely by trying to dodge questions.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

Jailhouse recordings: CM attempted to persuade CJ that he was owed $$ from JM, which in fact is NOT true, which the State has PROVEN toward their motive as greed. Also, witness tampering.

IF CM is innocent, why would he want CJ to testify he was owed $$ from JM? Explain that !

What is your take on the wording of the email? It could be construed (or misconstrued) to read that JM owed Merritt money. “Chase paid” is either “Chase was paid” or “Chase already paid” depending on the usage of the word paid.

 

[smr]

How do you folks explain the two different sets of tire tracks?

The other thing I'd like to know, have the prosecutors given an explanation of how it was possible for Chase to do all the alleged parts of the crime alone, such as murdering at the house, driving the victims (alive or dead) to the grave site, burying them, driving the Isuzu Trooper to Mexican border (did the burial happen before or after the Mexican trip?), leaving the Trooper there, and somehow managing to get from the Mexican border to home or to the burial site with a vehicle other than the Trooper (or motorbike? bus? taxi? rental truck?)

The point is, if all you have is circumstantial evidence, some of which are unreliable, without any forensic evidence linking the defendant to the murder, you need at least to show that what you allege he did was practically possible. A convincing time sequence conjecture or various possible scenarios such the different ordering of events ABCDE or BADCE will help.

 

[gitana1]

I’d like to know how classifying someone as a hostile witness works. Any of our lawyers care to speak up? @gitana1?

My unprofessional understanding is that the difference is that, with a hostile witness, lawyers can cross-examine, (ask leading questions of), a witness that they have called. That’s quite an advantage.

So, I’m wondering if they can get that declaration up front, or if they have to wait until the witness actually behaves hostilely by trying to dodge questions.

That's correct. They can pretty much always question a defendant in a CIVIL case as a hostile witness without having to establish during testimony that they're going to be hostile. But for witnesses in a criminal or civil case that they call they can ask for that designation during trial. I will start by asking them, "were you subpoenaed to be here? Do you want to behere today? How do you feel about testifying?" And I might ask questions of them about their relationship to the other side, for example, if it's a relation who has ties that may make it hard for them to be truthful.

Then I ask the court for permission to question them as a 776 witness. (EV CODE 776).

 

[Edmo]

What is your take on the wording of the email? It could be construed (or misconstrued) to read that JM owed Merritt money. “Chase paid” is either “Chase was paid” or “Chase already paid” depending on the usage of the word paid.

Yes, the $42K aligns with the Pros that CM was overpaid.