CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Niner]

Wednesday, January 30th:
*Trial continues (Day 14)-No trial today; Jurors on field trip (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started on 1/7/19.
Skipping Day 1 thru 6 – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
1/16/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Det. Troy DuGal. Denys Williams, a forensic evidence technician for San Diego County, now retired, since 2014. Trial continues on 1/17.
1/17/19 Day 8: State witnesses: Denys Williams, retired evidence technician with San Diego Co. She took photos inside the McStay home. Joe Sequeida, employee from Metro Sheet Metal. Dark on Fridays, continues on Tuesday, 1/22, as Monday the 21st is a holiday.
1/22/19 Day 9: State witnesses: Joe Sequeida, from Metro Sheet Metal. John Bluth, is the motorcycle rider that found the human skull and called police. Sgt. Gary Hart. is with the San Bernadino Sheriff's dept. At the time of this investigation he was a detective. After jurors released for break, one atty (Maline) was scolded by judge for being 20 min late to court for third time. Sgt. Armando Avila (subject to recall), was a detective in the homicide for San Bernardino County at the time the remains were found. Trial continues on 1/23 and will be from 9:30am to 12:30pm.
1/23/19 Day 10: State witnesses: Dr. Alexis Grey, forensic anthropologist. The state will now play the police interrogation video of Merritt of 2/17/10 (DuGal's interview). Trial continues on 1/24.
1/24/19 Day 11: Judge announces there will be no court on Monday, Feb 4 & possible late start on Feb 5. They are back to playing the Audi interview of CM, on Feb 17th. State witnesses: Heatherly Radeleff, San Bernardino Sheriff's Lead Crime Scene Specialist. Det. Edward Bachman, lead investigator San Bernardino County. Trial dark on Fridays, trial continues on 1/28.
1/28/19 Day 12: State witnesses: Susan Heckaman, worked for Geis Construction. Jeffrey Martin, Martin's company (Geis Construction) did business with McStay's company. Dr. Chanikarn Changsri, medical examiner. Trial continues 1/29.
1/29/18 Day 13: State witnesses: Elva Fonseca, used to work for Merritt. Joseph Steers, was a detective with SDSD. Diana Wright, FBI forensic examiner. Sergeant Ryan Smith, lead detective. Field trip tomorrow for the jury, they will not be in court No court tomorrow (1/30). Trial resumes Thursday morning (1/31).

 

[katydid23]

Will the prosecutors and defense lawyers as well as the judge be going to the grave site with the jury? What about the people who were in the audience watching the testimonies such as the relatives of the victims? And what about the defendant?

Please, correct me if I am wrong. But just going from memory in other past trials:

The Jurors go all together on a shuttle or a bus of some kind, along with the bailiffs

At the location, Attorneys from both sides will be present. But they are not allowed to interact with the jurors, IIRC. They are just allowed to watch.

Only the judge is allowed to speak to them, and he will point out pre-approved locations, agreed upon beforehand, by both sides.

The jurors are not allowed to 'experiment' or 'investigate' by digging a hole, or anything like that .

 

[katydid23]

Here is info from the Phil Spector Trial, when the jury was taken to the mansion, where the murder took place.

Spector Jury To Visit Crime Scene

When the jury arrives at Spector's mansion they won't be able to see much. Out of the 33 rooms that the house contains, they will only see three of them. The jury will see the foyer where the shooting occurred, the bathroom where Clarkson removed her fake eyelids and the living room where Spector and Clarkson had drinks together.

From the exterior, the jury will be able to see where the limo driver claimed that he heard shots fired. This driveway area is also the same location where Phil Spector said, "I think I killed somebody."

This site visit will have strict limitations for the jury. "This judge will not allow the jury to conduct their own examinations. They're not going to be allowed to sit in the chair where Lana Clarkson was shot," Copeland said. The attorneys will be prohibited from speaking. The judge will be the only person allowed to address the jury.


ETA--Ha ha ha---great typo left in the above article:
"...the bathroom where Clarkson removed her fake eyelids..."

 

[mrjitty]

I haven't watched it yet. Based on what I read hear today it was uneventful, other than she testified he was ripping Joseph off. She could have testified to so much more but I guess it would deemed hearsay.

I did just watch Detective Ryan's testimony and it was engrossing. I did actually email him my lengthy conversations with Kavanaugh and Jarvis so it was good to put a face to the name.

Wow - that must have been fascinating?

Are you a case insider?

 

[mrjitty]

At 42:00 he is asked if he subpoenaed DK's bank records, he says no. Asked if he subpoenaed his Paypal records, he says no. It's shortly after this that he makes mention that they verified he was in Hawaii, but he did not do this himself. (the pro's keep objecting, it's annoying lol really... if it's been verified and they are okay with it, then just let the guy say it lol)

This was a notorious quadruple homicide case - of course DK has been dragged hard.

We've already seen DK bank records exhibited. DK has clearly cooperated with police, including interviews and documents

 

[missy1974]

ETA--Ha ha ha---great typo left in the above article:
"...the bathroom where Clarkson removed her fake eyelids..."

I read that and figured it was time to go to bed!

 

[missy1974]

This was a notorious quadruple homicide case - of course DK has been dragged hard.

We've already seen DK bank records exhibited. DK has clearly cooperated with police, including interviews and documents

There was something said the other day when the lawyers were arguing, I got the impression that the defense subpoenaed them, not the State. I do believe the Defense also has an obligation to hand over anything they plan on using, thus the State has them now. The State wanted to show those statements because the defense used them to show the witness but didn't show the jury IIRC

I guess if he was fully cooperating, that's great. I do not get that impression at all though.

 

[Tortoise]

Not trying to be difficult, but that is not what the historical data says for Victorville.

Zero precipitation. I guess the site could be wrong, but it's usually accurate. I have referenced it for other cases.

Since you are from the area... RC is about an hour away from Victorville, right? I mean, where I am, and it is WIDE open prairies, not even a big hill in the way to change the weather lol, places not even an hour away have huge differences in weather. In temperature, in storms, in rain/snow accumulation. It's kind of crazy actually and we comment on it a lot.

I have never questioned that it must have been wet because of those tire tracks, I only went to look because Tortoise commented something about maybe it rained more or harder so I went to see how much rain they actually got that day.

Would we see tracks like that even if it hadn't rained recently?

I'm also wondering if either the pro's or defense have said anything about it raining that day, the 6th?

San Bernardino also shows no rain for that day.
San Bernardino International, CA History | Weather Underground

This site says there was rain on the 6th in Victorville

precipitation 1.10 inches

And a little on the 7th

0.03 inches

Climate Victorville - California and Weather averages Victorville - Weather history february 2010

 

[mrjitty]

There was something said the other day when the lawyers were arguing, I got the impression that the defense subpoenaed them, not the State. I do believe the Defense also has an obligation to hand over anything they plan on using, thus the State has them now. The State wanted to show those statements because the defense used them to show the witness but didn't show the jury IIRC

I guess if he was fully cooperating, that's great. I do not get that impression at all though.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is the Detective was going to exhibit those DK bank statements and discuss what was on the face of the documents.

The judge only allowed him to exhibit them, but not analyse.

So then the state was simply allowed to exhibit the documents before the jury without the witness.

So I assumed this is states evidence. I actually don't know if the defence can go on a fishing expedition into DKs finances? I believe only the police can do that using Court processes?

To be honest, if one accepts DK was in Hawaii and not involved in the murders which seems now to have been established by Detectives, it shouldn't be surprising that he cooperated at least to some extent in order to exclude himself from the inquiries

 

[mrjitty]

At 42:00 he is asked if he subpoenaed DK's bank records, he says no. Asked if he subpoenaed his Paypal records, he says no. It's shortly after this that he makes mention that they verified he was in Hawaii, but he did not do this himself. (the pro's keep objecting, it's annoying lol really... if it's been verified and they are okay with it, then just let the guy say it lol)

Actually I think the judge got this right.

The Detective explains that DK was ruled out as the killer, on the basis that he was not in the state.

He states this was verified by team members (personal knowledge)

That really ought to be the end of this wild speculation, but of course the defense is going to continue to gaslight us about it.

 

[mrjitty]

Ok, so we are going with, he went there 2 times? Or that the one time he was there, he backed in... moved... backed in again? Why would he do that?

I understand that different conditions are going to create different marks, I don't know if they are going to create different tire width's though? I am hoping that somewhere along the way, we hear an 'expert' or someone that can explain this to the jury (and us)

I am still listening to the testimony. FYI.. the feed even stops on rewind LOL sooooo annoying!

I think he went there 2 times yes

 

[mrjitty]

I think the existence of the trooper key in Joey's pocket is significant

It is indeed a fair assumption there are 2 keys.

So the one in the pocket is the one he used that day.

That creates a strong evidence point Joey drove the trooper home, or he would not still have the key.

Chase must have used the other key - which he must have retrieved from the house ..

 

[Tortoise]

That wouldn't mean they were traipsing off to Mexico. I think what the defense is trying to do, is show there are other possible scenarios.

Maybe the food was left out and the dogs outside, only because they were suddenly scared by someone or something. They had to leave in a hurry?

Or maybe they drove the Trooper to the border to try and make people think they went to Mexico, in order to get away from someone?

Or maybe someone carjacked Joey, and they dumped the car there and transferred to another vehicle?

I AM NOT BELIEVING ANY OF THIS. I just worry that the defense is creating a few pockets of reasonable doubt here and there.

Stop worrying katydid! You see even you said you're not believing any of this. Those scenarios would be unreasonable doubt!

Merritt marked the calendar for us on the date he killed them. He backdated all the cheques he created after the 4th to the 4th, switched his phone off, lied that he was with his 'wife' when she was calling him all evening, and was even in their house that day with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar before scrambling to get the trail of crumbs he left swept up in the days following! Eggs, fruit, popcorn and shorts won't win it - it's so desperate.

Whether he did it in his own truck or someone else's he did it. I think it's much more likely he would kill and transport dead bodies in someone else's truck because he told everyone he was the last person to see Joey alive and would know they would investigate him.

And then he virtually told the detectives he knew they were dead when he said he would have murdered someone else if he murdered anyone, while it was still a missing persons investigation, and when he talked about them all as if they were dead less than two weeks after they went missing.

The jury doesn't have to have answers for everything he did - he obviously set out to not leave a trail back to him. So it's even more remarkable that there is such a strong body of circumstantial evidence years later, given that police weren't investigating it as murder for nearly four years.

The prosecution is showing his greed, his thirst for Joey's money and his untrustworthy character. He even ripped off Susan Blake. Compulsive gambling and having money paid directly to his wife shows us he had a huge psychological attachment to money and was out of control.

It's a lot of work he had to get done by himself, stealing money (printing cheques) before the bank account and credit card would be frozen, covering his tracks by trying to get the QB records deleted, transporting bodies, digging graves, having to get rid of the Trooper. It's obvious it was him alone because he didn't raise the alarm until after he had completed that last stage, a team or an accomplice would have split up the tasks and had the Trooper at the border the next day. He's located in the desert by his phone - in one stupid mistake when he called his wife. He's conspicuous by his phone being out of use for all these relevant time periods. Neither will he be able to provide incontrovertible proof he was doing his normal activities during those times, that would have been the defense's biggest news headlines for the jury if that was the case - not where they say someone else who could have done it - Dan - was or wasn't at the relevant times.

He makes no secret of having a deep seated hatred of Summer and a dislike of the children. The defense are playing dirty - kicking up clouds of dust by dropping Dan's name in every other sentence, knowing full well their questions will be disallowed but ringing the bell anyway - but he wasn't the one who was so enmeshed in Joey's family life, all the while despising them all and storing up grudges. He wasn't the one who was at the house printing and deleting a cheque to charles merritt and saw Joey on his last day alive - after Joey called the bank and then never contacted a soul ever again, unless you include some apparent texts with Summer at 5pm when it's not clear that Joey was in control of his own phone. Susan Blake said she told Dan to take money from the Paypal account for child support for Jonah.

It is my opinion that some of the people here who have followed the case from the beginning however much they try to view this as a juror are viewing it through the lens of pet theories developed over years of getting down in the dirt. The defense can measure headlights/taillights and talk about breakfast popcorn forever but I'm sure if the jury is paying attention and able to understand the essence of reasonable doubt, and not sweat over tyre measurements, Charles Merritt will never walk the streets again. He is guilty and guilty alone of these murders IMO. If someone lent him a truck or gave him a lift or looked after his phone or gave him a false alibi they may have unwittingly or wittingly aided a murderer, but he wielded the hammer, IMO. This crime is the work of a very dangerous and remorseless psychopath.

All MOO

 

[Tortoise]

I think the existence of the trooper key in Joey's pocket is significant

It is indeed a fair assumption there are 2 keys.

So the one in the pocket is the one he used that day.

That creates a strong evidence point Joey drove the trooper home, or he would not still have the key.

Chase must have used the other key - which he must have retrieved from the house ..

Why would Joey not still have the key? He drove it to Rancho so it would be with him even if he never drove the Trooper home.

This doesn't rule out Chase driving to the house in another vehicle and taking Summer's duplicate car keys for the Trooper.

 

[mrjitty]

Why would Joey not still have the key? He drove it to Rancho so it would be with him even if he never drove the Trooper home.

This doesn't rule out Chase driving to the house in another vehicle and taking Summer's duplicate car keys for the Trooper.

It doesn't that is true. But if he murders Joey say at the storage unit - then he knows Joey has the key. And probably he needed to move the trooper then and there rather than leave it parked at the storage. So IMO it is pretty likely he takes Joey's key.

 

[mrjitty]

Merritt marked the calendar for us on the date he killed them.

It's also pretty clear from Joey's phone records. The man was making calls from the crack of dawn till late on other days.

 

[Tortoise]

It doesn't that is true. But if he murders Joey say at the storage unit - then he knows Joey has the key. And probably he needed to move the trooper then and there rather than leave it parked at the storage. So IMO it is pretty likely he takes Joey's key.

I don't think he would move the Trooper to another spot because then he would be stranded with no car to get back to his own truck. I'm resting all this on the prosecution's case about the tail pipe, and Chase borrowing a truck, but if that turns out to be the Trooper in the video I think it's likely Chase drove the Trooper to the house.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think he would move the Trooper to another spot because then he would be stranded with no car to get back to his own truck. I'm resting all this on the prosecution's case about the tail pipe, and Chase borrowing a truck, but if that turns out to be the Trooper in the video I think it's likely Chase drove the Trooper to the house.

What i struggle with in terms of early time of death for Joey is then why go kill his family and create yet another crime scene?

I get with hindsight that it all kinda works out - but in the heat of the moment, i don't see the logic.

Wouldn't you rather focus on dumping Joey and the trooper?

It all just seems much cleaner if Joey goes home and Chase goes over there when he turns his phone off

 

[Tortoise]

What i struggle with in terms of early time of death for Joey is then why go kill his family and create yet another crime scene?

I get with hindsight that it all kinda works out - but in the heat of the moment, i don't see the logic.

Wouldn't you rather focus on dumping Joey and the trooper?

It all just seems much cleaner if Joey goes home and Chase goes over there when he turns his phone off

I think he couldn't rule out Joey having discussed with Summer where he was going that morning and that there were problems between them. Once Summer has told that to police they would catch him with Joey's body before he's even been buried.

I think he took Joey's phone but didn't have the password until he tortured Summer to get it before he killed her, to see if Joey had called anyone else like the police or his father or anyone at all. He needed to know who might already be on his tail. It's one thing to leave dogs outside with a large bag of food and another to leave witnesses alive in a house, namely Gianni and Joey Jr., who were old enough to identify him.

 

[mrjitty]

I think he couldn't rule out Joey having discussed with Summer where he was going that morning and that there were problems between them. Once Summer has told that to police they would catch him with Joey's body before he's even been buried.

I think he took Joey's phone but didn't have the password until he tortured Summer to get it before he killed her, to see if Joey had called anyone else like the police or his father or anyone at all. He needed to know who might already be on his tail. It's one thing to leave dogs outside with a large bag of food and another to leave witnesses alive in a house, namely Gianni and Joey Jr., who were old enough to identify him.

OK but then in this case you require a co-conspirator who will answer Chase's phone from close to his home base at 5.37, and then switch the phone off.