CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[HannahJJJ]

Unless the tox screens come back with a definitive cause of death, the messaging around heat needs to change or these deaths will continue. There have been so many this summer, although they were the only ones with a dog and baby in tow.

Yes, the only ones with a dog and a tiny, delicate toddler in tow.

As far as the possibility of heat stroke, in my mind, odds are, as a result of some significantly different physical traits, he would have succumbed to the heat more quickly, perhaps even much more quickly than she; she then having enough time to get help in there. Odds are.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

To those in the “heatstroke” camp, I offer this friendly challenge in the spirit of lively debate, because I can’t think of a scenario to get around it. How do you account for the water they had with them?

I’ve personally witnessed two very scary heat-related events with close family. The first was with my oldest son when he was 14 months old and had his first febrile seizure. It turns out they’re harmless, but I didn’t know anything about them at the time. All I knew at 2am was that the feverish baby I was holding and comforting suddenly became rigid, his eyes glazed over, and he began making involuntarily movements. The second was with my elderly father, who had overexerted himself loading his truck in 99 degree weather. When I arrived at his house, he could barely shuffle his feet, he fell backwards, and was angrily insisting he was fine.

When you witness heat causing a loved one to rapidly become unrecognizable and to exhibit distressing behavior, if you’re anything like me, your only thought is “Make this stop NOW! Reduce the heat NOW!” In both cases I didn’t first think to call 911 or anything else - it was instinctive “This cannot continue.” In my son’s case, I ran him to the bathtub and began dousing him with cold tap water (which he did not appreciate). With my dad, I didn’t even try to get him inside. Instead I put him in the truck, turned it on, pointed all the vents on him, and blasted the AC, then ran inside to get a wet towel to wrap his neck in.

So, if the thought is that this was a sequential death situation, and that perhaps the baby or dog succumbed first, how does water that could have been used to cool the victim get left in a container?

I’d be curious to know from others who have been in scary and traumatic heat situations if they too felt that instinct to reduce heat at all costs.

A small amount of tepid or warm water would not cool core temp. They were only 1.5 miles from the truck but at a much lower elevation on the switchbacks. My guess is that they had been conserving water when thinking more clearly.

When it comes to heat stroke, even packing the victim in ice may not be enough. Glad both instances worked out ok for your family. Doctors filled body bags with ice to save NW heat-wave ... (oregonlive.com)

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

To those in the “heatstroke” camp, I offer this friendly challenge in the spirit of lively debate, because I can’t think of a scenario to get around it. How do you account for the water they had with them?

I’ve personally witnessed two very scary heat-related events with close family. The first was with my oldest son when he was 14 months old and had his first febrile seizure. It turns out they’re harmless, but I didn’t know anything about them at the time. All I knew at 2am was that the feverish baby I was holding and comforting suddenly became rigid, his eyes glazed over, and he began making involuntarily movements. The second was with my elderly father, who had overexerted himself loading his truck in 99 degree weather. When I arrived at his house, he could barely shuffle his feet, he fell backwards, and was angrily insisting he was fine.

When you witness heat causing a loved one to rapidly become unrecognizable and to exhibit distressing behavior, if you’re anything like me, your only thought is “Make this stop NOW! Reduce the heat NOW!” In both cases I didn’t first think to call 911 or anything else - it was instinctive “This cannot continue.” In my son’s case, I ran him to the bathtub and began dousing him with cold tap water (which he did not appreciate). With my dad, I didn’t even try to get him inside. Instead I put him in the truck, turned it on, pointed all the vents on him, and blasted the AC, then ran inside to get a wet towel to wrap his neck in.

So, if the thought is that this was a sequential death situation, and that perhaps the baby or dog succumbed first, how does water that could have been used to cool the victim get left in a container?

I’d be curious to know from others who have been in scary and traumatic heat situations if they too felt that instinct to reduce heat at all costs.

On a trail with ambient temps of up to 109, full sun exposure and the ground radiating heat upwards there are few means to cool core body temp. Concern re: algae may have kept them out of the river.

 

[Tower]

I'm going to throw Naegleria fowleri into the mix, just in case, a microscopic amoeba that is found in lakes, rivers and hot springs.
If the river is low enough to warm up to grow algae, it may be a suitable environment for this too.

Child dies from rare brain-eating amoeba in California

People become infected when water contaminated with the amoeba goes up their nose. From there, the organism can enter the brain and destroy brain tissue. Infections are almost universally fatal, with less than a 3% survival rate, Live Science previously reported.
It's unclear exactly why some people are able to survive the condition, but factors that may contribute to survival include early detection of the infection and treatment with an experimental drug called miltefosine, along with other aggressive treatments to reduce brain swelling.

The only way to prevent Naegleria fowleri infection is to avoid swimming in bodies of freshwater, the statement said.

This infection is slow and simply could not kill both adults in the timeframe in which they were found. I have never heard of two people being infected in a short timeframe because it is so rare for the amoeba to wriggle up your nose. I also believe, even with decomposition, signs of amoeba infiltration would be found in the brain.
Brain-Eating Amoeba (Naegleria Fowleri): FAQ, Symptoms, Treatment

 

[Angleterre]

Honestly, we're a hiking family and we never used a baby backpack. I just never felt it was safe. Same with those front baby carriers. Plus we had twins. The only trails we did when the kids were young were trails where one of us could push the all terrain stroller. But we are fairly risk averse. We tend to intentionally underestimate our ability when planning hikes, as we tend to like less traveled trails so I try to keep the distance/difficulty lower. My boys are 23 now and we're older so we still are very cautious. We've traveled out west for years but I know I personally don't do well in hot conditions. I get hot when it's 70.

I wonder if they weren't really that familiar with hiking with the baby. But it's hard to imagine taking any risk with a child so I can only assume they didn't see it as a risk. Just the weather/heat and the trail itself presented what seems like a substantial risk to me. And I don't know what actually presented the risk to them. Was it just the heat & terrain, a toxic substance, an accident that spiraled? And I just can't help but think how different it would be if they had done a trail with cell reception. That's part of what I look for. And if you know your trails are unlikely to have reception and you go out often you need an emergency device. All the women I know who hike seriously have one. Men? Not so sure.

Oh, and I second the trekking poles. I've had ankle problems and to hike I need to wear substantial hiking boots with good ankle support-I use Salomon Quest 4D, and trekking poles-Black Diamond Distance FLZ. Black Diamond Distance FLZ - Women's Review

In addition to the points made in this excellent post, we are all talking about the temperature and it’s effects on the dog and the parents but I haven’t seen anything in particular that refers specifically to the baby because babies are less able to regulate their body temperature than adults and therefore the baby was at huge risk and if the baby started to cry in discomfort, if this cry became prolonged then this too would add to an increase in the babies temperature. So could it be that the baby got into difficulty first, swiftly followed by the dog and Mum went to get help whilst Dad stayed to keep the baby and dog safe ?

 

[RedHaus]

In addition to the points made in this excellent post, we are all talking about the temperature and it’s effects on the dog and the parents but I haven’t seen anything in particular that refers specifically to the baby because babies are less able to regulate their body temperature than adults and therefore the baby was at huge risk and if the baby started to cry in discomfort, if this cry became prolonged then this too would add to an increase in the babies temperature. So could it be that the baby got into difficulty first, swiftly followed by the dog and Mum went to get help whilst Dad stayed to keep the baby and dog safe ?

Hi @Angleterre, @NSamuelle (paramedic) opined on the impact of extreme heat on a baby up thread. It was not pretty.

 

[woods]

The areas closed today are along the Merced River, between Briceburg and Bagby, where toxic algal blooms were confirmed in the water.

“The safety of visitors to our BLM-managed public lands is a top priority,” said BLM Mother Lode Field Manager Elizabeth Meyer-Shields. “These algal blooms can produce toxins that can make people and pets extremely sick. We will continue to monitor for the algae’s presence and look forward to when the public can safely recreate in the Merced River.”

The BLM’s order did not mention the family’s death or whether the shutdown was connected to that investigation. Calls to BLM officials regarding the possible connection were not returned as of this posting.
Update: BLM Temporarily Closes Public Lands In Mariposa For Safety Reasons | myMotherLode.com

 

[SpideySense]

Agree with all of this except I think you meant “supine,” not prone ;-). I remember it with “supine, looking up at the pines.” Good CPR commonly breaks ribs and leaves bruising, so (as you said) it doesn’t seem like it was attempted.

Yes, thank you! I did mean supine, not prone.

 

[Lucy Locket]

Hi there,
Newbie here.

I have looked at this case for a while and I think the heat exhaustion/stroke is the strongest theory yet. I might be wrong!

I do feel for the family and their families.

My biggest thought is 'the incident pit' :
The Incident Pit – Outdoor Swimming Society

When small things start to go wrong...bigger things can start to pile up. It could be that they pushed through down to the river...ignoring any small signs that were showing up with the infant and the dog.

They may have been able to cool down there (at the river) and encountered more problems on the way back up.

My husband used to own a scuba diving centre in Egypt. A friend of a friend started to suffer from heat exhaustion and he was behaving as if he was drunk. My hubbie had not seen this before so rushed him off to the local doctor. The doctor advised him (hubbie) to cool him down immediately so cold water was poured over this friend's body until the guy came round. It was a lucky escape.

My husband was convinced that this guy was drunk but his friend's friend said that he had not touched a drop of alcohol. He had obviously not been drinking any water and had been sitting out in the sun (on the beach) all day.

As a scuba diver...the incident pit...is crucial. One small thing/problem can quickly snowball into a major incident.

I think the combination of intense heat (just as much as the intense cold) with hiking can be lethal. We have seen it with other cases...plus the commitment to keep on keeping on can be totally the wrong thing to do.

The key is being able to recognise the 'problematic' signs. I guess it is a good idea to always be mindful of your 'turnaround plan' - whatever your outdoor activity...we should always set out but always have a turnaround plan in (y)our back pocket or have it as Plan B.

I do feel for them as I know what it is like to be a new parent. You can be pretty well sleep deprived; you can be desperate to get out and have fun; you can be desperate to stay fit; you can be desperate to have adventures and use your adult mind. The opportunity to combine all of this with being a complete family must have been tempting.

Unfortunately I think they bit off more than they could chew...something I have done a few times and say...there for the grace of God go I.

There are also other elements I believe: living a life in air conditioning/the pressure of social media/posting new pictures on social media/trying out new baby equipment/a possible over-reliance on a hiking app or apps (perhaps).

That said, if I put my detective hat on. I would say:
1. A new trail...perhaps they could have researched it in a bit more detail and earlier than they did? Am I right in thinking they did this the day before the hike? (If they had done more research then I apologise!)
2. It's been years since I've scuba dived but we, as a club, were always encouraged to try out a new piece of equipment in a safe area like the leisure pool beforehand - just to get used to the new equipment/see its pros and cons before using it for real in more difficult conditions.
3. Always, always, always check the weather conditions before setting out. As my great uncle used to say...always know how you are going to get back before you set out. Have a Plan B if you start to encounter problems.
4. Personal locator beacons (PLBs) don't always work (rare but it happens), nevertheless, it is worth carrying one if there is no mobile/phone signal in the area you plan to hike.
5. Whether they had just set out on the trail or were coming back...the fact that Ellen was nearer the car than the group suggests that she knew something was wrong. She was going to get help and she had left baby and dog with dad for safety.

If I am right in thinking...Ellen did not have her mobile phone with her. Maybe she left dad with his phone in case she could get help to her family. Maybe a message could get through to them whilst she was away. Again, if I am right in thinking - sometimes SMS/text messages can slip through. (I live in the UK and this is possible in remote areas without reception - not sure what it is like in the US.)

6. It is possible that one by one they slipped away...Ellen left the group and succumbed herself. They may have carried the dog to that point plus the child...dad was exhausted by all the effort...yes...it does not bear thinking about.

Except that we have to. We have to try to learn from what went wrong.

I agree that we are going to have to start to build excess heat situations into our daily life as it is becoming, sadly, more and more common with global warming.

My tuppence or two dimes worth!

 

[minazoe]

I can't help but wonder how someone with a life altering illness could even cope with a hike like this..I only have migraines, and still my doctor warns me about super hot oppressive weather.. you shouldn't be out running around in this kind of weather ..it's too stressful on the body..what had the weather been like in the days preceding? was it cooler..? could it be that every day is just so beautiful they never checked the forecast?

was she doing yoga? hot yoga? perhaps they were into challenging heat as a way to slim down or condition their bodies?

I don't know...I hope we find out soon. mOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I can't help but wonder how someone with a life altering illness could even cope with a hike like this..I only have migraines, and still my doctor warns me about super hot oppressive weather.. you shouldn't be out running around in this kind of weather ..it's too stressful on the body..what had the weather been like in the days preceding? was it cooler..? could it be that every day is just so beautiful they never checked the forecast?

was she doing yoga? hot yoga? perhaps they were into challenging heat as a way to slim down or condition their bodies?

I don't know...I hope we find out soon. mOO

While summers in California generally include some quite hot days (except right on the coast, and even then sometimes), in my experience this summer was unusually hot. In my area of California, which is not especially near them but also inland and at elevation, we usually have a handful of days over 100*F each summer. This year it was more like a solid month of those days. I don't know specifically what it was like in their area and in particular how much hotter than "usual" it was, but I think I can safely say it was HOT and probably moreso than usual.

I do think that the next few years might be a good time for all of us who recreate outdoors in summer heat, to reassess our assumptions and expectations about what we can safely do with what kinds of protections. I believe it's changing. MOO

 

[NSamuelle]

I can't help but wonder how someone with a life altering illness could even cope with a hike like this..I only have migraines, and still my doctor warns me about super hot oppressive weather.. you shouldn't be out running around in this kind of weather ..it's too stressful on the body..what had the weather been like in the days preceding? was it cooler..? could it be that every day is just so beautiful they never checked the forecast?

was she doing yoga? hot yoga? perhaps they were into challenging heat as a way to slim down or condition their bodies?

I don't know...I hope we find out soon. mOO

I am speculating that her “debilitating” (in her words; source: IG) condition was psychological, as she certainly did not appear physically debilitated. She stated that, because of it, she was leaving her job and may never work for a company again.

I (shamefully) get winded walking a few miles and couldn’t do a trek in the Himalayas, but I can work a 16 hour day.

 

[Angleterre]

Hi @Angleterre, @NSamuelle (paramedic) opined on the impact of extreme heat on a baby up thread. It was not pretty.

My apologies, I missed that

 

[Arise]

The problem with babies and heat (in simplified terms) is that aside from their general vulnerability and narrow margin of error with homeostasis, they have very little surface area and high body fat. Lanky, tall people are at lowest risk of heatstroke because their bodies can better dissipate heat - babies are the opposite. I can’t bear to think about what she must’ve gone through, especially in a carrier pressed against her father, like being pressed against a warming pad.

I "wore" all my babies as older babies and toddlers and safely carrying your baby or toddler is always a point of discussion in that community during the summer. Most people who use cloth wraps switch to Asian buckle style carriers or mei tai carriers with a mesh body to allow more ventilation and limit the amount of time the baby is on your back out in the heat. My experience with these backpack style carriers is limited but my understanding is there is some space between the wearer and the bay for ventilation. You put the baby in the backpack and then put the backpack on versus traditional carriers which are all some version of putting the baby on your back and then securing them to your body. Downsides of the additional space between the baby and the wearer is that the wearer is much less conscious of how the baby is doing. Either someone else has to check on the baby or you have to take the backpack off to check. Second is that it makes the wearer have to work harder on balance when they have the baby up so high and away from the wearers center of gravity. Babies move and you have to constantly compensate for that movement when you're carrying them.

 

[NSamuelle]

I "wore" all my babies as older babies and toddlers and safely carrying your baby or toddler is always a point of discussion in that community during the summer. Most people who use cloth wraps switch to Asian buckle style carriers or mei tai carriers with a mesh body to allow more ventilation and limit the amount of time the baby is on your back out in the heat. My experience with these backpack style carriers is limited but my understanding is there is some space between the wearer and the bay for ventilation. You put the baby in the backpack and then put the backpack on versus traditional carriers which are all some version of putting the baby on your back and then securing them to your body. Downsides of the additional space between the baby and the wearer is that the wearer is much less conscious of how the baby is doing. Either someone else has to check on the baby or you have to take the backpack off to check. Second is that it makes the wearer have to work harder on balance when they have the baby up so high and away from the wearers center of gravity. Babies move and you have to constantly compensate for that movement when you're carrying them.

One article reported a quote from LE that she was in a “kangaroo” bag, so that’s why I’m assuming that she was pressed up against dad’s back or chest (essentially a 98-100 degree warming pad). The sheriff made a reference to the baby not being “tied” to her father when found dead, so it must have been a tie-on carrier rather than a more structured one that tends to provide better ventilation. Family is found dead on a trail without signs of violence

Quote from article: “The sheriff said Miju was “in a kangaroo bag close to her father, but not tied to her father,” and Hellen [sic] was located about 30 meters away. Their dog, Oksi, was lying next to the baby.”

Sadly, there was a case of infant heat exhaustion and death in the winter when a mother put her child on a heating pad, no doubt trying to keep her comfortable. Even though the apt. was cold, the close proximity to a heat source was fatal. Miju was exposed to high ambient temps plus high “localized” temps against her body.

 

[lotus777]

That said, if I put my detective hat on. I would say:
1. A new trail...perhaps they could have researched it in a bit more detail and earlier than they did? Am I right in thinking they did this the day before the hike? (If they had done more research then I apologise!)

Fellow newbie here. According to Jonathan's AllTrails account, he "saved" Hites Cove Trail (which connects to Savage Lundy Trail) "over 1 year ago" and completed it "over 4 years ago." I wonder if having completed it before, possibly at a different time of year, led him to underestimate the risk.

AllTrails has data for Hites Cove Trail but not Savage Lundy, which is a bit odd (though I've found AllTrails lacking so I'm not surprised). There's only a little about Savage Lundy online, but Yosemite.com does mention it's the most difficult in the area. I also found a blog by a woman who cut her hike there short due to heat, and it was only in the 80s. Knowing how hot it must have been for the Gerrishes, just looking at the photos makes me uneasy.

I agree that heat stroke seems the most logical explanation, but it's incredibly strange they went out, and with the baby and dog, when daily highs were regularly in the 100s. The lack of attention to the heat in the media is frustrating given how many heat rescues and deaths there are on a regular basis. The New York Times article was especially troubling given the journalist's assumptions that the hike would have been no problem for them (it would have been a problem for anyone) and that their travel history made them experienced hikers.

 

[NSamuelle]

Fellow newbie here. According to Jonathan's AllTrails account, he "saved" Hites Cove Trail (which connects to Savage Lundy Trail) "over 1 year ago" and completed it "over 4 years ago." I wonder if having completed it before, possibly at a different time of year, led him to underestimate the risk.

AllTrails has data for Hites Cove Trail but not Savage Lundy, which is a bit odd (though I've found AllTrails lacking so I'm not surprised). There's only a little about Savage Lundy online, but Yosemite.com does mention it's the most difficult in the area. I also found a blog by a woman who cut her hike there short due to heat, and it was only in the 80s. Knowing how hot it must have been for the Gerrishes, just looking at the photos makes me uneasy.

I agree that heat stroke seems the most logical explanation, but it's incredibly strange they went out, and with the baby and dog, when daily highs were regularly in the 100s. The lack of attention to the heat in the media is frustrating given how many heat rescues and deaths there are on a regular basis. The New York Times article was especially troubling given the journalist's assumptions that the hike would have been no problem for them (it would have been a problem for anyone) and that their travel history made them experienced hikers.

Agreed, I think the NYT was irresponsibly playing up the fear factor of “you can be prepared and do everything right and be super experienced and this can happen to YOU” to drive clicks. But they weren’t prepared. Regardless of how much water or how many snacks they had, babies and dogs can’t withstand temperatures above 90 degrees for any length of time. I wish they had spent the day cooling off in their backyard pool.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I can't help but wonder how someone with a life altering illness could even cope with a hike like this..I only have migraines, and still my doctor warns me about super hot oppressive weather.. you shouldn't be out running around in this kind of weather ..it's too stressful on the body..what had the weather been like in the days preceding? was it cooler..? could it be that every day is just so beautiful they never checked the forecast?

was she doing yoga? hot yoga? perhaps they were into challenging heat as a way to slim down or condition their bodies?

I don't know...I hope we find out soon. mOO

It depends on what the illness was. It could have been physical or mental, and it may have gone into remission at times, or she may have had good days or simply good hours.

She may have had to schedule her life according to her symptoms and seized the good moments and took advantage of feeling well enough to do something.

 

[Parsnip]

Do we have any medical professionals on the thread who could speak to the interplay between heat exhaustion and emotional shock? I’ve been going down that rabbit hole today, but much of my reading is beyond my ken. I am especially thinking about EC and what might have been happening to her physiologically (especially her heart) if she feared for the safety of one or more family member, had to leave them behind, race (sprint?) off for help, which could be miles away, and was herself experiencing some effects from the heat. I am assuming some degree of heat acclimatization, given the family likely hiked often in the area, and she was fairly young and seemingly healthy, so I do not think she experienced the disorienting effects of heat stroke. Thoughts?

 

[wary]

Thank you, I appreciate your help with answering my questions

And for the record, California has a very distinct rainy season/dry season. Average rainfall in Mariposa for July and August .04 inches per month—stats over 120 years, having nothing to do with climate change, by the way.

MARIPOSA, CALIFORNIA - Climate Summary