CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[lotus777]

In this and other similar cases (Kreycik, Death Valley etc), LE has suggested heat stroke as the most likely cause of death based on environmental conditions. I am baffled why in the Gerrish case, LE is reluctant to suggest that as the COD when the conditions were similar. Is it only because 4 lives perished in this instance (vs 1 in other cases) that they think heat is unlikely to be the culprit? Or do they know something else that rules out heat as the culprit (that they haven't disclosed to the public)?

I did see an article where heat-related causes were mentioned among CODs LE were still considering.

 

[jonjon747]

OK, I'm starting to see the issue with Alltrails.

HC trail is the one that starts at Hwy 140 and heads SE toward a spot on the South Fork apparently known as Hite's Cove. This is not where they were.

HC road is in the right vicinity but also not where they were. (it may or may not be what was searched on JG's phone). This trail as labeled on the app starts on pavement in Jerseydale and ends just past the Y where they parked, stopping just at the gate leading to the Savage-Lundy switchbacks.

It seems to me that the ohv road they hiked DOWN was colloquially called Hite's Cove/Hite Cove as well (and at the river, where the family apparently turned right/upstream to hike, if one were to turn left and continue downstream, one would eventually come to the same Hites Cove that the Hwy 140 trailhead leads toward), but Alltrails doesn't label it such nor at all. Nor does Alltrails label the Savage-Lundy trail at all, although both paths are shown on its maps.

Since JG/EC were not new to the area, IMO it's impossible to tell what they were or weren't familiar with.

The route JG searched online, the one that starts at Jerseydale, they ended up driving rather than hiking that day.

MOO

According to
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253776303.html

- Saturday, Aug. 14: Jonathan Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via a phone app.

Hite Cove or Hites Cove trail is where it boggles my mind.

Many trail apps have Hites Cove trail listed which could mean it's one of the more popular choices for hikers, whereas Hite Cove trail (where they parked) is rarely listed or mentioned.

I can imagine Savage Lundy trail as the least desirable choice for hikers because it was trashed by the 2018 forest fire there.

JG chose a deserted trail to begin with and end up on even more remote and distant part of another trail.

or

JG chose a popular trail in which driving to getting there is also easy since it's right by the HWY 140.

It's a sunday family hike.

 

[jonjon747]

double post deleted

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

A friend and her husband went camping in an area in California affected by fire two or three months earlier. She said it looked like someone had thrown up pepto bismol (fire retardant) everywhere. Three years later she's still alive and hasn't had any health complaints.

Thanks Sophie - yeah, the guy in the video said he thought that fire retardents were about 90% water, and one would assume that anything that is getting sprayed or dumped from a helicopter onto land where humans or wildlife might pass over it, would be subject to rigorous testing conditions for safety.

It was just one theory I hadn't heard yet, and there have certainly been many with this particular case!

 

[Bekind89]

Quote: " I am baffled why in the Gerrish case, LE is reluctant to suggest that as the COD when the conditions were similar."

The same. I have been so frustrated by the " mysterious - what on earth could it have been- non- mystery." I know the motive of the media, click bait, but the TRUE mystery is why LE are behaving as if this family went missing in Area 51. A family goes hiking in 109F heat wearing a baby in a back and the 8 year old double- furred pet dog in a shadeless hellscape on a steep incline.
But what on earth could go wrong? LE and the media could have possibly prevented other heat deaths had they reported this accurately and honestly. IMO, had this been a poor, older family it would have been reported much differently. No one should disrespect this family because they made a fatal error in judgement, we all have at times in our life, we were just lucky misjudgements weren't fatal. If it were me I would really want what happened to me to be shown as a lesson for others.
I have MS, so I do not hike, but comparing maps, apps that have descriptions of trails, I can honestly say that Alltrail is lacking, to day the least. I do hope JG used other maps and websites.
@gitana1- Beautiful dog. Happy trails to the both of you.

 

[lotus777]

Quote: " I am baffled why in the Gerrish case, LE is reluctant to suggest that as the COD when the conditions were similar."

The same. I have been so frustrated by the " mysterious - what on earth could it have been- non- mystery." I know the motive of the media, click bait, but the TRUE mystery is why LE are behaving as if this family went missing in Area 51. A family goes hiking in 109F heat wearing a baby in a back and the 8 year old double- furred pet dog in a shadeless hellscape on a steep incline.
But what on earth could go wrong? LE and the media could have possibly prevented other heat deaths had they reported this accurately and honestly. IMO, had this been a poor, older family it would have been reported much differently. No one should disrespect this family because they made a fatal error in judgement, we all have at times in our life, we were just lucky misjudgements weren't fatal. If it were me I would really want what happened to me to be shown as a lesson for others.
I have MS, so I do not hike, but comparing maps, apps that have descriptions of trails, I can honestly say that Alltrail is lacking, to day the least. I do hope JG used other maps and websites.
@gitana1- Beautiful dog. Happy trails to the both of you.

I think LE and the media were thrown by the toxic algae as a potential COD (not that it's been ruled out). The media would also play up the algae and/or any mystery for clicks.

LE may be treading lightly because a baby was involved and mentioning heat as a likely COD, without absolute certainty, would inevitably lead to unpleasant victim blaming for the families.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

one would assume that anything that is getting sprayed or dumped from a helicopter onto land where humans or wildlife might pass over it, would be subject to rigorous testing conditions for safety

AFAIK there are some environmental/health concerns with aerial retardant but I think they are of the longterm accumulative variety. I agree it would not likely be anything immediately toxic to humans or wildlife (they drop retardant right onto homes in some situations).

@jonjon747 I agree with you that we don't know which "Hites Cove" JG searched. One question -- do we know for sure he did his search on Alltrails? or might it have been just a google search? I did notice that the Hites Cove route they apparently hiked down is often called Hites Cove road rather than trail, because it's designed for OHV riders instead of just nonmotorized recreationists. But Alltrails doesn't seem to have it under any name, so...

MOO

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I think that's a natural thought, but air flow is only perceived to be cooling due to evaporation of sweat, which only happens to living creatures who sweat!

(this is why a fan going in a closed room doesn't actually lower the temp in the room even though it FEELS cooling to you when you are there)

Upon thought I think the higher standing temp for the car is because of the heat radiating off the hot mass of the car, and once moving that heat is dissipated and actual outside air temp is measured. Except that after a few moments the engine heats up, so if the sensor is near the engine, that dip in temp should be temporary. I can't recall whether I've noticed that or not, will try to pay better attention in the future.

Ahhh very true, Auntie, thank you. I always knew there was a reason I failed science at school! Ha

 

[gitana1]

I was reading about Savage Lundy and the trail is actually named after Major James Savage, “discoverer” of Yosemite Valley; and Otto Lundy, a miner and owner of May Lundy Mine.

Although, I completely get what you're saying, and I read reports from fire fighters who have battled wildfires in that region and have said it really is 'savage'. They also stated Devil's Gulch is the type of terrain where the devil would live. It doesn't get much hotter than that to me!

Ha ha! Thanks for the correction!

 

[gitana1]

Hiking thermometer is not a bad idea! I do wonder the same though - I wonder how accurate they are or if solar radiation affects it the same way sun vs. shade would.

PS love the avatar LOL

Those are my boys!

 

[gitana1]

In this and other similar cases (Kreycik, Death Valley etc), LE has suggested heat stroke as the most likely cause of death based on environmental conditions. I am baffled why in the Gerrish case, LE is reluctant to suggest that as the COD when the conditions were similar. Is it only because 4 lives perished in this instance (vs 1 in other cases) that they think heat is unlikely to be the culprit? Or do they know something else that rules out heat as the culprit (that they haven't disclosed to the public)?

That’s my question.

 

[gitana1]

According to
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253776303.html

- Saturday, Aug. 14: Jonathan Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via a phone app.

Hite Cove or Hites Cove trail is where it boggles my mind.

Many trail apps have Hites Cove trail listed which could mean it's one of the more popular choices for hikers, whereas Hite Cove trail (where they parked) is rarely listed or mentioned.

I can imagine Savage Lundy trail as the least desirable choice for hikers because it was trashed by the 2018 forest fire there.

JG chose a deserted trail to begin with and end up on even more remote and distant part of another trail.

or

JG chose a popular trail in which driving to getting there is also easy since it's right by the HWY 140.

It's a sunday family hike.

Do you think they got confused?

 

[SophieRose]

Do you think they got confused?

No. They most likely chose that trail because it's right down the street from the new house they bought in July.

 

[gitana1]

I think LE and the media were thrown by the toxic algae as a potential COD (not that it's been ruled out). The media would also play up the algae and/or any mystery for clicks.

LE may be treading lightly because a baby was involved and mentioning heat as a likely COD, without absolute certainty, would inevitably lead to unpleasant victim blaming for the families.

It can happen to anyone. If that was the cause.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Idk if anyone posted this bc I haven't been able to keep up. My apologies.
Here it is in case it hasn't been posted:

Thanks for sharing this. He adds a layer of confusion though, as the Sierra article he's referencing for the update states the hiking trail length as what we've all discussed - 8.5 miles, but he says in the video it's a two mile long trail. That difference would definitely change a lot of theories for a lot of people, IMHO.

 

[lotus777]

It can happen to anyone. If that was the cause.

I didn't at ALL mean to imply it can't happen to anyone, or that the victim blaming would be warranted.

 

[sfinkz]

I was reading about Savage Lundy and the trail is actually named after Major James Savage, “discoverer” of Yosemite Valley; and Otto Lundy, a miner and owner of May Lundy Mine.

Although, I completely get what you're saying, and I read reports from fire fighters who have battled wildfires in that region and have said it really is 'savage'. They also stated Devil's Gulch is the type of terrain where the devil would live. It doesn't get much hotter than that to me!

Rich CA history from that ragtag Mariposa Battalion of ‘48. The trail itself the most direct route from mining operations on the river to timber mill/settlements above. The credibility of those crusty miners, their stray companions free to obey a superior canine sense, established by virtue of surviving the journey to this foreign land.

But the 4000-year winter migration of the Ahwanachee—renowned for always blazing the steepest, most direct trails—from their sacred valley to these parts, papoose-laden and fishing the plentiful rainbows and brown trout and collecting lush river grasses for intricate basketry, certainly scampered often up to the pine-topped ridge.

Thus I’m also sure the Devils Gulch did not claim its first victims one month ago. The perspective sure is different when looking up as opposed to down. But I feel those who came before had a different view. Mobile phones and AllTrails not required.

 

[gitana1]

I didn't at ALL mean to imply it can't happen to anyone, or that the victim blaming would be warranted.

I know! I was agreeing with you.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

For all of us learning things here, paper maps show trail, terrain, elevation, topography in tangible form. There's no confusion about a trail name, because with the map you know where you are. Maps have context. I'm sure younger people will argue this is available in electronic form, but it simply isn't the same. My adult children cannot read a paper map! It's a skill, and I believe it's one that makes a hiker safer. Just my two cents!

 

[SophieRose]

From the San Francisco Chronicle, picture of gate at Hite Cove OHV Trail. I believe sign says Closed for Maintenance. I wonder how much maintenance, if any, was done on the trail since it has been closed since the 2018 fire.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1428582697425801218/photo/1