GUILTY CA - Lawrence 'Larry' King, 15, fatally shot at Oxnard school, 12 Feb 2008

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Utopia said:
I see no dishonesty in Nova's post, I see an attempt at clarity. Accusing a fellow (articulate, thoughtful and respected) poster of "outright dishonesty" is what is shameful here.
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Thanks, U. I see nothing going on in this thread that we don't normally do in the effort to understand one another.
 
"Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oxnard15feb15,0,7663055.story

"Lawrence King was gunned down Tuesday by his Oxnard classmate. King, an eighth grader at E.O. Green Junior High School, was teased at school because of the effeminate way he dressed."
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_8296341

The boy who was killed was the one being bullied by other children at his school. These links should clarify that.
Perhaps it has gotten mixed up on this post who was being bullied and who was doing the bullying. Hopefully this clears it up.
I feel horrible for this young man who lost his life, his family could have cared less about him, and they won't even reveal their names. He suffered for who he was.
 
golfmom said:
The point is that it wasn't Justche's claim. How hard would it have been to ask, "Is there a source because I'd love to give that media outlet a piece of my mind. Sounds like the typical perp blaming the victim to me."
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Well, it was Justche's claim here at WS. (Since then, s/he explained where s/he heard it and I have accepted that.)

In the same initial post, s/he went on to invoke a new law against hate speech. Why is it unreasonable that I understood her to believe the two events to be related?

Unfortunately, per Justche's report, this isn't even a perp blaming the victim, but a bunch of other people. It may still turn out to be true that the murder victim had bullied the shooter. (Nobody is claiming gay people, including kids, are saints.)

But, as I've said, there is an unfortunate history of not just perps and defense lawyers, but society itself blaming the victims of gay-hate crimes. It's something we should all be quick to question.
 
MeoW333 said:
"Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oxnard15feb15,0,7663055.story

"Lawrence King was gunned down Tuesday by his Oxnard classmate. King, an eighth grader at E.O. Green Junior High School, was teased at school because of the effeminate way he dressed."
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_8296341

The boy who was killed was the one being bullied by other children at his school. These links should clarify that.
Perhaps it has gotten mixed up on this post who was being bullied and who was doing the bullying. Hopefully this clears it up.
I feel horrible for this young man who lost his life, his family could have cared less about him, and they won't even reveal their names. He suffered for who he was.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. The account isn't perfectly written, but it does indeed appear the "verbal confrontation" consisted of a group of boys, including the eventual shooter, versus a lone 8th grader wearing make up. It's hard to imagine how the latter was the bully. (Since there has been dissention in this thread, I want to be fair: this online report doesn't mean Justche didn't hear the confrontation reported differently on her local news.)
 
MeoW333 said:
"Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oxnard15feb15,0,7663055.story

"Lawrence King was gunned down Tuesday by his Oxnard classmate. King, an eighth grader at E.O. Green Junior High School, was teased at school because of the effeminate way he dressed."
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_8296341

The boy who was killed was the one being bullied by other children at his school. These links should clarify that.
Perhaps it has gotten mixed up on this post who was being bullied and who was doing the bullying. Hopefully this clears it up.
I feel horrible for this young man who lost his life, his family could have cared less about him, and they won't even reveal their names. He suffered for who he was.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. At least we can get that cleared up. I, too, feel horriblly for Lawrence (the victim, if anyone is still confused.) Unfortunately, with all of this bickering, this thread has gone unbelievably astray.
 
Idaho4Groenes said:
Thank you for posting this. At least we can get that cleared up. I, too, feel horriblly for Lawrence (the victim, if anyone is still confused.) Unfortunately, with all of this bickering, this thread has gone unbelievably astray.
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I feel bad for both kids. I just don't think a 14/15-year-old commits a hate crime without a lot of "help" (perhaps unintentional) from his family, friends, community, etc.

I'm sorry if the thread (ETA: your thread) seemed to go "astray." I thought we were trying to clarify what happened and what each of thinks about what happened.
 
Clarification is fine. I just think this was a bit more. Just my opinion though. Glad we're back on topic. :)

I do wonder if someone else put this idea in his head. Whether it be a parent or even another classmate. Not that it would make this okay in any way, but would maybe help explain things. I agree with the other poster(s) who said they don't think he should be tried as an adult though. I'm not a big fan of that for kids, especially junior high kids.
 
I wonder if Brandon's father called him names such as "*advertiser censored*" or something derogatory which would have increased his internal "rage" (not sure what to call it) that would lead up to him killing Larry.
 
That tribute video just reduced me to tears. He had such a beautiful smile and eyes that just reached into your soul. How could anyone shoot to kill him?

I wish murderers had to have pictures like these of their victims lining the walls of their cells.
 
Taximom, it is so sad, he had went through h3ll and back and was only 14,15 years old.
The first article on this thread mentions he was a foster child living at Casa Pacifica. I found some background on the place; it takes in children in crisis, whether it be neglect, abuse, abandonment.
Here is a link about Casa Pacifica:
http://www.casapacifica.org/24hourServ.html

So I'm guessing he was living there if his family kicked him out (i am guessing this, i have not found articles to prove it yet; if i do, i will link them).
He was very brave, at such a young age, to dress how he felt and deal with ridicule that he did.
There seems to be a lot of children across the country coming together against intolerance of those who are different. At least Larry will not go unforgotten; he had a short life, and clearly suffered, yet hopefully his memory living on will make a difference and help promote tolerance if not acceptance among our youth.
 
Taximom said:
That tribute video just reduced me to tears. He had such a beautiful smile and eyes that just reached into your soul. How could anyone shoot to kill him?

I wish murderers had to have pictures like these of their victims lining the walls of their cells.
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I know exactly what you mean. What a beautiful little boy. While looking at his pictures and then the video I kept thinking..he looks so happy in all of the pictures and it looks like he had a good life when he was little. What happened and why did he end up in a residential setting for troubled teens?
It looks like the family did things that kids would enjoy and the kids were dressed nicely. I guess we just can't see beyond the pic to what was really going on in that little guys life. I remember the director of the center he was living in say that Larry had never felt loved. Breaks my life. Just when he was feeling loved and accepted in his home invironment this happens.

In one of the news articles it said that the killer was surprised that Larry died.
Well for pity sake...you shoot someone in the head and there is a good chance that they will die! The killer's dad doesn't sound like much of a prize. Domestic violence...he didn't serve much time..surprise surprise...but I wonder if he was abusive to his kids. I'm not hunting for excuses for what the killer did. We reach a certain age and we know the difference between right and wrong and I doubt there is a 14 yr old alive that doesn't know that killing another person is wrong. He made a choice for some reason and now he will have to pay the consequences. What a bizarre reason to kill another person!

I think a killer should have to have pictures of their victim in their cell too unless it is a pervert that gets a thrill out of looking at the victim.
 
MeoW333 said:
Taximom, it is so sad, he had went through h3ll and back and was only 14,15 years old.
The first article on this thread mentions he was a foster child living at Casa Pacifica. I found some background on the place; it takes in children in crisis, whether it be neglect, abuse, abandonment.
Here is a link about Casa Pacifica:
http://www.casapacifica.org/24hourServ.html

So I'm guessing he was living there if his family kicked him out (i am guessing this, i have not found articles to prove it yet; if i do, i will link them).
He was very brave, at such a young age, to dress how he felt and deal with ridicule that he did.
There seems to be a lot of children across the country coming together against intolerance of those who are different. At least Larry will not go unforgotten; he had a short life, and clearly suffered, yet hopefully his memory living on will make a difference and help promote tolerance if not acceptance among our youth.
Click to expand...


I believe that Larry was in the Residential Treatment Program which is a long term program. I believe it said at least 18 months. I used to work in a place just like this but on a much smaller scale. Most of the kids are from troubled families and have been in the system for a while. If foster care doesn't work out then kids can be placed in places like this. I think the centers are great if they are run right. In Washington state they have all but been eliminated by DSHS and there is no where to send teens now.
 
Bobbisangel said:
I believe that Larry was in the Residential Treatment Program which is a long term program. I believe it said at least 18 months. I used to work in a place just like this but on a much smaller scale. Most of the kids are from troubled families and have been in the system for a while. If foster care doesn't work out then kids can be placed in places like this. I think the centers are great if they are run right. In Washington state they have all but been eliminated by DSHS and there is no where to send teens now.
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From how i read the article, it sounded as if Larry was living there.
It's a shame WA eliminated most of them, especially if they were run right and it was working for teens. From articles i've read, involving Larry's case, it sounds like he was thriving at the one he was living at.
 
Bobbisangel said:
...In one of the news articles it said that the killer was surprised that Larry died.
Well for pity sake...you shoot someone in the head and there is a good chance that they will die! The killer's dad doesn't sound like much of a prize. Domestic violence...he didn't serve much time..surprise surprise...but I wonder if he was abusive to his kids. I'm not hunting for excuses for what the killer did. We reach a certain age and we know the difference between right and wrong and I doubt there is a 14 yr old alive that doesn't know that killing another person is wrong. He made a choice for some reason and now he will have to pay the consequences. What a bizarre reason to kill another person!....
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Of course, it may be that the killer's "surprise" was just an accident of the way it was reported. And I absolutely agree with you that the killer was old enough to know what he was doing was wrong.

But I believe there's significant research that teenagers haven't fully developed the part of the brain that deals with consequences. (Sorry, I don't have a link at the moment, but it's been discussed at length here at WS.) Is it possible the shooter just hadn't thought that far ahead?
 
Nova said:
Of course, it may be that the killer's "surprise" was just an accident of the way it was reported. And I absolutely agree with you that the killer was old enough to know what he was doing was wrong.

But I believe there's significant research that teenagers haven't fully developed the part of the brain that deals with consequences. (Sorry, I don't have a link at the moment, but it's been discussed at length here at WS.) Is it possible the shooter just hadn't thought that far ahead?
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(my bold)
That's how I feel, Nova. I'm not excusing what he did, but I do think some kids just don't truly understand the power of firearms. It also sounds like he didn't have the best family situation either. Talk about an explosive situation. :(
 
It really bothers me that one kid could think that he had the right to take the life of another kid just because that kid was different! The one boy being different didn't affect the shooter's life. He could have ignored him instead of confronting him one day and killing him the next. It just sounds like plain ole bullying to me. That is what they do...go after the kids that are more vulnerable...kids that don't usually fight back.

If the counselor at the school who offered counseling to both of the boys had had any sense he/she would have taken both of the boys into his/her office and helped them work out the problem. You would be surprised how well that works if you know what you are doing. It probably would have put an end to the whole thing. Talking things through and listening can work wonders. It would have been worth a try anyway.
 
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