Identified! CA - Los Angeles Co, WhtFem 40-55, UP16521, struck by car, multiple tattoos, Mar'17 - Nancy Elizabeth Norman

[Dionysia]

This may be a bag of coincidences, but bear with me.

I am using initials in case this turns out to be for naught.

Assuming that Mark - 8/25/78 is a birthdate of a child - I found an M. Mark T. who was born on that day.

He was born in Los Angeles County and his mother's maiden name was C***.

I found a marriage record for his parents, MLC and MT. They married in 1977, when they were both 17. (That makes MLC born in 1960; 57 at the time that our UID was found and within the age range in NAMUS)

MMT is born a year later and then in Jan. 1981, MLC and MT divorce.

MLCT marries MS in May 1981.

All of this takes place in LA County.

MLCT - Now MLCTS - I can trace to Diamond Bar, CA, which is about 1/2 hour's drive from Pasadena.
I can also trace her to the Albuquerque area, but I can't figure out timing of the addresses.

Her son MMT still seems to live in the LA area.
What if she was visiting him and was hit?

That's where my trail ends.

I have access to Ancestry and Classmates, but can't seem to get much farther.

Can anyone take up the search? I think I've given enough info.

We just need to find out if MLCTS (most recently going by MLS) is missing or not.

Thanks!

 

[Gardener1850]

Two Marks who died 8/25/1978:

Mark C. died at the age of 16 and was one of 7 children (click on his dad's name to see his obit): https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=9531020&ref=acom

I found a couple of his siblings on fb but none resemble the UID. It's possible the UID was his HS girlfriend. She is the right age.

----------------------------------------
Mark A E died at age 4 and his parents names are listed: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=119531662&ref=acom

I found a woman with the same name as his mother on fb but I'm not sure it's the right J.E.

Just posting these in case anyone else wants to search social media. I think that tattoo has to be a memorial tat, JMO.

 

[asdkek]

This may be a bag of coincidences, but bear with me.

I am using initials in case this turns out to be for naught.

Assuming that Mark - 8/25/78 is a birthdate of a child - I found an M. Mark T. who was born on that day.

He was born in Los Angeles County and his mother's maiden name was C***.

I found a marriage record for his parents, MLC and MT. They married in 1977, when they were both 17. (That makes MLC born in 1960; 57 at the time that our UID was found and within the age range in NAMUS)

MMT is born a year later and then in Jan. 1981, MLC and MT divorce.

MLCT marries MS in May 1981.

All of this takes place in LA County.

MLCT - Now MLCTS - I can trace to Diamond Bar, CA, which is about 1/2 hour's drive from Pasadena.
I can also trace her to the Albuquerque area, but I can't figure out timing of the addresses.

Her son MMT still seems to live in the LA area.
What if she was visiting him and was hit?

That's where my trail ends.

I have access to Ancestry and Classmates, but can't seem to get much farther.

Can anyone take up the search? I think I've given enough info.

We just need to find out if MLCTS (most recently going by MLS) is missing or not.

Thanks!

Nice work. I'll gladly assist. Found this case today and have been researching it. If the person you found is not the doe then the woman who wrote this post could be.

 

[NadirCake]

There's a church (St. Andrew's) just a two minute walk north from the accident scene (on Walnut ST, east of Fair Oaks Ave, per NamUs.)

http://www.friendsindeedpas.org/what-we-do/access-our-services/
This page states the days/times that free groceries can be obtained at St. Andrew's.

St. Andrew’s Catholic Church
42 Chestnut St.
(626) 792-4183
Tuesdays and Saturdays (once monthly) 9:30 am- 11am, picture ID required

Accident happened on Tuesday, March 14th at 6:43am (NamUs.)

I don't know if the St. Andrew's food pantry was actually open on that Tuesday. 6:43am would be pretty early to be headed to the church food bank if it opens at 9:30, but it's not uncommon for people in need to line up a little early. (The highest-demand items, like meat and eggs, could run out.)

If this person didn't know what time it opened, or if they were only able to get a ride with someone in the early morning, it's not unimaginable that they might be in the area that early.

I don't know whether this person was going north or south across the street, so she might not have even been going in that direction. But I just thought it might be worth noting.

The memorial tattoo angle looks a lot more promising!

 

[sunnynz]

----------------------------------------
Mark A E died at age 4 and his parents names are listed: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=119531662&ref=acom

I found a woman with the same name as his mother on fb but I'm not sure it's the right J.E.

I found this JE on facebook - she's not our UID. Not to say that it's not the right Mark of course, I do agree about this likely being a memorial tattoo. Everything I've read online about rose and cross tattoos indicate that the rose is added as a symbol of love and remembrance - so I believe the date is a death not a birth. (MOO).

This is just an observation and not really relevant to her identity, but her tattoos all seem to be of a spiritual/peaceful nature.

The location where she died - East Walnut St in Pasadena from what I can gather - is in the region where a lot of homeless shelters are. Maybe someone from the area can shed some more light on how accurate this is? Is there a large homeless population here?

 

[asdkek]

I found this JE on facebook - she's not our UID. Not to say that it's not the right Mark of course, I do agree about this likely being a memorial tattoo. Everything I've read online about rose and cross tattoos indicate that the rose is added as a symbol of love and remembrance - so I believe the date is a death not a birth. (MOO).

This is just an observation and not really relevant to her identity, but her tattoos all seem to be of a spiritual/peaceful nature.

The location where she died - East Walnut St in Pasadena from what I can gather - is in the region where a lot of homeless shelters are. Maybe someone from the area can shed some more light on how accurate this is? Is there a large homeless population here?

I know nothing about tattoos so I may be wrong here, but couldn't it also be the date of birth of someone who died? I personally wouldn't have the date of death as a tattoo because I'd want to remember their life when I look in the mirror.

 

[Jessica6980]

Nice work. I'll gladly assist. Found this case today and have been researching it. If the person you found is not the doe then the woman who wrote this post could be.

I did some brief Googling and found that post, too. I was contemplating posting her as a possibility, my only hesitation was if you google her name, there is a news story with a booking photo from 2014 (link below,) and she was a pretty rough looking 60 year old. I don't think she could be mistaken for 40-55, but stranger things have happened.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/...ipt-instead-of-license-during-7th-oui-arrest/

Hoping she gets her name back soon.

 

[coffeeandacig]

What do you think???

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/20759/17
Jacqlin Nelson
Nov. 29, 2012
Detroit MI
5-5"- 5'7"
110-140lbs
Strawberry Blonde / Blue Eyes
41 y/o at time of disappearance
Per live-in boyfriend, Jacqlin was in and out all day. She left again and was never seen from again.
Tattoo on back of sun and moon and one on leg but unknown what it is.

Just an update: Jacqlin Nelson has been ruled out.

 

[coffeeandacig]

I have a question, if anyone can answer please...
Will the LA County Coroner/Detectives do a cross check of local missing people first?

I ask this because there is a potential strong match with a missing who's been missing for a long time from the Venice, CA area.

Kimberly Ann Kahler
missing since Jan. 1, 1980
age 16 years old
last seen in Venice CA
5' 8" 145 lbs.
Red Hair, Blue Eyes, freckles, and small scar on lip

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6251/10
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?115888-CA-Kimberly-Kahler-15-Venice-1-Jan-1980

What intrigues me is the vintage 1980's "Billycoat"...it's a personal item and not something from the Goodwill. JMHO

 

[sunnynz]

I know nothing about tattoos so I may be wrong here, but couldn't it also be the date of birth of someone who died? I personally wouldn't have the date of death as a tattoo because I'd want to remember their life when I look in the mirror.

Yes, you're right, could be. Great point.

 

[sunnynz]

I did some brief Googling and found that post, too. I was contemplating posting her as a possibility, my only hesitation was if you google her name, there is a news story with a booking photo from 2014 (link below,) and she was a pretty rough looking 60 year old. I don't think she could be mistaken for 40-55, but stranger things have happened.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/...ipt-instead-of-license-during-7th-oui-arrest/

Hoping she gets her name back soon.

Ok, so if we're saying that BJF - the birth mother of the 'Mark' listed on these links
http://registry.adoption.com/records/416622.html?close https://adoption.com/forums/thread/154229/donald-8-25-78-brenda-drinkwater-9-5-79/js_warning=true
is the Jane Doe, then she is not the same BJD from this news story - this BJD is too old to be JD and also too old to be the birth mother from the above links. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/...ipt-instead-of-license-during-7th-oui-arrest/

Right?

I think the birth mother listed int hose adoption links is a good possibility to research, she is listed as having brown hair and hazel eyes which differs from the JD's description but hair colour to me is so subjective, and eye colour can be too. The ages match up for sure.

 

[Jessica6980]

Ok, so if we're saying that BJF - the birth mother of the 'Mark' listed on these links
http://registry.adoption.com/records/416622.html?close https://adoption.com/forums/thread/154229/donald-8-25-78-brenda-drinkwater-9-5-79/js_warning=true
is the Jane Doe, then she is not the same BJD from this news story - this BJD is too old to be JD and also too old to be the birth mother from the above links. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/...ipt-instead-of-license-during-7th-oui-arrest/

Right?

I think the birth mother listed int hose adoption links is a good possibility to research, she is listed as having brown hair and hazel eyes which differs from the JD's description but hair colour to me is so subjective, and eye colour can be too. The ages match up for sure.

Color me embarrassed! You are totally right. I didn't even scroll down to notice the birthdates were there. I just saw that BJF was married to the birth father at some point and went googling for any BDs I could find. OOPS!

The BD from the news story is definitely too old to be any one related to this post.

 

[sunnynz]

Color me embarrassed! You are totally right. I didn't even scroll down to notice the birthdates were there. I just saw that BJF was married to the birth father at some point and went googling for any BDs I could find. OOPS!

The BD from the news story is definitely too old to be any one related to this post.

I think it's still a good avenue to investigate wth the name and DOB for the guy.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Really great sleuthing by you all. :great:
I wonder given this woman's age, is it at all possible that "Mark" could've been her child she gave birth to as a teen and...perhaps a stillborn? Thus, having a same birth and death date?

 

[digitective]

The cross with the name and date looks like it could be a memorial cross.

Definitely...a couple of Marks who died on 8/25/78, in case it helps lead to her...

Mark Allen Eavenson
Born 5/15/74 (only 4 years old)
Died in Elbert, GA
Son of Bobby A. Eavenson and Judy Dixon Eavenson of Dewy Rose, GA

Mark Courville
Born 11/12/62 (only 12 years old)
Died in Elton, LA
Son of Willis (now deceased) and Mary Courville of Elton, LA

 

[digitective]

Uploading the tattoos and clothing photos here, in case they get removed from NamUs at some point. Her clothes appear to be in good shape, aside from some wear and tear that could have been from the collision (like the rips on her shoes). That makes me think she wasn't a transient, which makes it a bit strange that nobody seems to be looking for her...but maybe she was a loner in life.
You can also tell from the arm tattoo photo that she's fair-skinned and has lots of pale freckles on her arms. She has a stereotypically Irish complexion, plus red hair.

 

[carbuff]

When I looked at the pictures just now, I thought the cross said Kate, not Mark.

 

[houndpounder]

First glance it could have been Kate, but it is an "M". Looking at it, it could be Mack, Mary, Matt, Bad Tatoo.

 

[houndpounder]

Maybe her brother:
Name:Mark Allen Neal
Event Type: Death
Event Date:28 Aug 1978
Event Place:San Francisco, California, United States
Birth Date:28 Aug 1957
Birthplace: Kentucky
Gender:Male

 

[digitective]

I hope law enforcement is reaching out to the families of all the Marks who died on that date to see if anyone can figure out who she is... this seems so solvable with such a specific clue...