Deceased/Not Found CA - Lucinda Schaefer, 17, Redondo Beach, 24 June 1979 *Bittaker & Norris guilty*

[southbay]

I've also noticed the exact location of where Jackie Gilliam was found has always been vague. Sometimes they say San Dimas Canyon and other sources say Glendora Mountain Rd. Also no mile marker has ever been cited.

I know this thread is supposed to be in memory of Cindy Schaefer, but I wanted to include this video for those curious to learn more because I have found it to be the most detailed on the case. As we recently passed the anniversary of Lynette Ledford's death, I've had a renewed interest in learning more about the locations of the events that took place. This video includes almost all of the locations involved in this case including the location where Cindy was kidnapped and the location where she died. The "fire road" in the San Gabriel mountains where the - took their victims is the Upper Monroe Truck Trail (24:37 in video).

One location that is included but not named by address is the residence where Lynette's body was found the morning after her death. The street address is visible but very difficult to read at the 43:51 mark in the documentary posted, and the street name is not included at all. There are often conflicting accounts that her body was found in either Sunland-Tujunga or Hermosa Beach, which are more than an hour away from each other. If anyone has any information on the true location and address, I would be very interested to learn more. I would like to say a few prayers at this spot and possibly lay a flower. Thank you!

[video=youtube;nFi-DzCEWNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFi-DzCEWNo&t=[/video]

 

[CarlK90245]

I've been researching the Bittaker Norris victims for an author who is writing a book about the case. A couple of things I can clarify, and additional information.

Lucinda was kidnapped right near the corner of Prospect Ave. and Avenue A. One of her high heeled shoes was left behind, and that is how they knew something bad had happened to her. At the time, she was living with her maternal grandparents in a house at the southeast corner of Shadycroft Ave and Avenue A, two blocks from the location where she was abducted. The walk from St. Andrews (on PCH and Avenue D) to her grandparents' home is about a half-mile.

Lucinda Shaffer is actually a descendant of George Washington's immediate family. Her mother and maternal grandmother are listed in a book detailing the "Presidential Branch" of the Washington family tree. (George Washington had no biological descendants, but he had two step-children who survived to adulthood who were Martha Washington's children by way of a prior marriage, and several biologically-related nieces and nephews who were raised at Mount Vernon). It is unclear, which member of Washington's family is her direct ancestor.

Lucinda's third great grandfather, James Stout (1793-1824) was also murdered, and according to some accounts, his body never found. According to a story posted in Ancestry, he was on a sales trip to New Orleans, and disappeared on his way back home to Ohio, after being robbed and murdered.

Lucinda's maternal grandparents are both buried in the Pacific Crest Cemetery in Redondo Beach - only about 100 yards away from the remains of Leah Lamp (one of B&N's other victims).

Lynette Ledford's body was found in Sunland/Tujunga, not far from where she lived. IDK the address. But I know that her body was found in a patch of ivy in the front yard of a single-family residence. I had previously stated that her body was found in Hermosa Beach, but my previous understanding was incorrect. (I edited my post above to correct that error).

 

[CarlK90245]

I finally figured out Lucinda Schaefer's linage to George Washington. Lucinda and George Washington are Second-Cousins, seven times removed.

Or in other words, George Washington's great grandparents (John Washington and Ann Pope) are Lucinda's 10th great grandparents.

John Washington and Ann Pope are Lucinda's Mother's Mother's Mother's Father's Father's Mother's Mother's Father's Father's Father's Mother's Parents. LOL

 

[Richard]

40 Years ago...







Lucinda Lynn Schaefer
Birth 9 Jul 1962
Death 24 Jun 1979 (aged 16)
Burial Body lost or destroyed, Specifically: Somewhere in Los Angeles County, California

LINK:
Lucinda Lynn Schaefer (1962-1979) - Find A Grave...

 

[CarlK90245]

This case has bothered me for sometime. I grew up just below the San Gabriel mountain that they were taking the victims to. Is there a specific posting somewhere here about the case? I'm new here and learning my way around.

The "fire road" in the San Gabriel mountains where the - took their victims is the Upper Monroe Truck Trail (24:37 in video).

The Upper Monroe Truck Trail is where Andrea Hall was taken. The Upper Colby Trail is where Lucinda Schaffer was taken. The skeletal remains of Jackie Gilliam and Leah Lamp were on the Lower Monroe Truck Trail, though the exact locations are unclear.

This map pinpoints the locations where Lucinda and Andrea were taken.

 

[*Verdigris]

***

Dead.

'Tool Box Killer' who tortured, raped and murdered five teenage girls more than 40 years ago dies in prison in California aged 72 just months after the death of his accomplice

• California officials say Roy Lewis Norris, 72, died of natural causes on Monday
• Norris had been serving a 45-years-to-life sentence for four counts of first-degree murder, one count of second-degree murder, two counts of forcible rape
• Between June 24 and November 20, 1979, Norris and his crime partner Lawrence Sigmond Bittaker, kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered five teenage girls
• Their nickname, Tool Box Killers, came from the tools like a screwdriver, pliers and an ice pick that they used to torture and kill their victims
• Killings began in June 1979 with the death of 16-year-old Lucinda Lynn Schaefer She was followed by Andrea Hall, 18; Jacqueline Gilliam, 15; Jacqueline Leah Lamp, 13, and 16-year-old Shirley Lynette Ledford
• Bittaker died on California's death row in December

Good.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8043451/Tool-Box-Killer-preyed-teenagers-dies-California.html

 

[Richard]

Lucinda Lynn Schaefer

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Lucinda, circa 1979; Lawrence Bittaker; Roy Norris

• Missing Since 06/24/1979
• Missing From Torrance, California
• Classification Non-Family Abduction
• Sex Female
• Race White
• Date of Birth 07/09/1962 (57)
• Age 16 years old
• Height and Weigh 5'4, 115 pounds
• Clothing/Jewelry Description A size 7 or 8 white blouse with black Mexican-style embroidery, dark blue size 8 jeans, and beige size 6 sandals.
• Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian female. Blonde hair, blue eyes. Lucinda's nickname is Cindy. Her ears are double-pierced and she has a scar on her chin.

Details of Disappearance
Lucinda was abducted from Torrance, California, on June 24, 1979. She was last seen walking back to her grandmother's house from a Christian youth meeting at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church in Torrance.

When she was missed and people searched for her, they only found one of her shoes alongside the road. She left $220 behind in her savings account and has never been heard from again.

Later in 1979, Lawrence Sigmund Bittaker and Roy Lewis Norris were arrested and eventually convicted of murdering Lucinda and several other young women, including Andrea Hall. Photographs of the two men are posted with this case summary.

Norris and Bittaker had driven around California in their silver 1977 GMC cargo van, which they nicknamed "Murder Mac," and abducted, raped and killed a large number of women. They admitted to kidnapping and raping Lucinda and to dumping her body in a remote gorge, but each man blamed the other one for strangling her. She was their first known victim.

Norris testified against Bittaker in exchange for a life sentence; Bittaker was sentenced to death. He was never executed, however; in December 2019, after forty years on death row, he died in San Quentin State Prison at the age of 79.

Lucinda and Andrea's remains have never been found.
Investigating Agency

• California Department of Justice
• Missing and Unidentified Persons Unit
• 916-227-3290

Source Information

• California Attorney General's Office
• The Crime Library
• NamUs
• Find a Grave
• The Santa Cruz Sentinel
• The Associated Press
• Lucinda Lynn Schaefer – The Charley Project

 

[Otterly]

***

Dead.

'Tool Box Killer' who tortured, raped and murdered five teenage girls more than 40 years ago dies in prison in California aged 72 just months after the death of his accomplice

• California officials say Roy Lewis Norris, 72, died of natural causes on Monday
• Norris had been serving a 45-years-to-life sentence for four counts of first-degree murder, one count of second-degree murder, two counts of forcible rape
• Between June 24 and November 20, 1979, Norris and his crime partner Lawrence Sigmond Bittaker, kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered five teenage girls
• Their nickname, Tool Box Killers, came from the tools like a screwdriver, pliers and an ice pick that they used to torture and kill their victims
• Killings began in June 1979 with the death of 16-year-old Lucinda Lynn Schaefer She was followed by Andrea Hall, 18; Jacqueline Gilliam, 15; Jacqueline Leah Lamp, 13, and 16-year-old Shirley Lynette Ledford
• Bittaker died on California's death row in December

Good.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8043451/Tool-Box-Killer-preyed-teenagers-dies-California.html

Interesting coincidence that they died just a few months apart.

 

[bobbby]

My sister knew Lucinda. Cindy wasn’t from Redondo but living with her grandparents as has been said. I think she was from the South. So if she was waiting for a ride it would have been her grandmother picking her up not her mother. Her grandfather was infirm and didn’t drive.

The info about her disappearance is confusing. Ave A has a steep hill and would make walking difficult, especially in high heels. Not saying she didn’t but it seems unlikely. If her shoe was found on Prospect at Ave A she was either walking on prospect to her grandmother’s or her shoe was deposited there during an abduction. Ave D intersects prospect and that direction would be more walker friendly.

The info online has the van getting her on a side street but also mentions a PCH encounter. Again this seems unlikely. Too many potential witnesses. Tummy ache said it’s known she was waiting on a bench outside of church, presumably Ave D. That makes more sense.

Maybe this is splitting hairs but it bothers me when I read info on this that is so wrong.

And thank you to the people here posting. I’m glad someone had the sense to say she disappeared from Redondo not Torrance. If they can’t get something that simple correct how do we take the official information that’s offered?

I hope someday this case is resolved.

 

[CarlK90245]

My sister knew Lucinda. Cindy wasn’t from Redondo but living with her grandparents as has been said. I think she was from the South. So if she was waiting for a ride it would have been her grandmother picking her up not her mother. Her grandfather was infirm and didn’t drive.

The info about her disappearance is confusing. Ave A has a steep hill and would make walking difficult, especially in high heels. Not saying she didn’t but it seems unlikely. If her shoe was found on Prospect at Ave A she was either walking on prospect to her grandmother’s or her shoe was deposited there during an abduction. Ave D intersects prospect and that direction would be more walker friendly.

The info online has the van getting her on a side street but also mentions a PCH encounter. Again this seems unlikely. Too many potential witnesses. Tummy ache said it’s known she was waiting on a bench outside of church, presumably Ave D. That makes more sense.

Maybe this is splitting hairs but it bothers me when I read info on this that is so wrong.

And thank you to the people here posting. I’m glad someone had the sense to say she disappeared from Redondo not Torrance. If they can’t get something that simple correct how do we take the official information that’s offered?

I hope someday this case is resolved.

I spoke with prosecutor Stephen Kay just a couple of weeks ago. He was the prosecutor for both Bittaker/Norris and Charles Manson, and he clarified several things that were commonly misunderstood.

He says Cindy was picked up while walking on Avenue A, on the north side of the street, just a few houses west of Prospect. (even though her grandparents lived on the south side of the street at the top of the hill). There was no PCH encounter. They had encountered her somewhere along the route up Avenue A just east of PCH and asked her if she wanted to smoke pot with them, and she declined and continued on. They then drove ahead of her as she was walking up Avenue A, made a u-turn, and pulled up alongside her, jumped out and pulled her into the van. And he says her shoes were not high heels, as was previously stated. They were more like sandals.

Much of the public info regarding locations was incorrect.

The story about a PCH encounter is probably mixing up the details of Cindy's abduction with those of Andrea Hall's abduction. Stephen Kay said Andrea was picked up at PCH and Palos Verdes Blvd, on the opposite corner from what is now a Rock & Brews.

A friend of mine said she knew Cindy from Redondo Union High School, but as it turned out, that is also incorrect. Cindy attended high school in a different state. She was in California to visit her grandparents for the summer, because her mother was out of the country.

 

[bobbby]

“Much of the public info was incorrect.”

Lucinda was last seen on a bench near St Andrews Church apparently waiting for a ride. She is never seen again.

A shoe is found that is difficult to describe but is linked to Lucinda.

There are no witnesses or any physical evidence linking her disappearance to B and N. Yet N, as part of a deal with prosecutors, confesses. B claims no knowledge of or any connection to Lucinda. The only one out of the five cases where he claimed absolutely no recollection. At least according to Wikipedia.


So we have a shoe and one gently coerced confession.

 

[dw4693]

I pray they can recover her remains and give her a proper burial. Rip.

 

[bobbby]

It appears Cindy was born in Bexar County, near San Antonio, Texas. So the assumption is that is the state she was from.

 

[bobbby]

With respect for the detectives handling this case I would have concentrated more on the church attendees. There may have been a few bad apples who had a history of doing bad things in the area.

 

[bobbby]

This is some new info for me. Hope it helps

 

[bobbby]

“THE people’s case is based primarily on the testimony of the co-defendant, who obviously made a deal, um, the involvement of the co-defendant is so much greater than Mr. Bittaker’s that it’s incomprehensible, to me, that a deal was made with Mr. Norris. That’s the problem.”

- Albert Garber, Attorney for Bittaker

 

[bobbby]

From the above posted article: (Cindy is taken to St. Lawrence Church by her grandmother) “Mrs. Wycoff dropped the girl off at 7:25pm...Cindy...did not stay long enough for the meeting to begin. She apparently just walked out. Cindy was not seen by the people at the meeting most of whom she did not know.”

So according to this article Cindy is last seen by her Grandma at 7:25pm. No one at the 7:30pm meeting sees her. Did she make it to the meeting at all?

It’s as if she just vanished.

 

[bobbby]

Highlights from the article above:

“Cindy just completed her junior year of high school in Wisconsin...

Father lives in Texas...

She was to live in Portland with her mother in the fall...

Cindy lived in Mexico for six years...

mother was on a teaching assignment in Mexico...

Had a Mexican visa...fluent in Spanish...

Her brother, a college student in Nebraska...”

 

[bobbby]

Cindy arrives in the area on June 5, 1979 with her mother. Her mother leaves for Mexico on June 19.
Five days later, on June 24, Cindy is missing. Supposedly her shoe is deposited on the street on that day. Roy Norris is arrested Nov 23. Five plus months later investigators find her shoe on the side of the road? This doesn’t seem reasonable. Ave A and Prospect are well travelled roads and there is weekly mechanical street sweeping. If a shoe was found it’s difficult to believe it was left there 5-6 months prior.

She’s in the area a total of 19 days.

 

[bobbby]

With the only evidence being the word of a mad man and no body identified I believe the Lucinda Schaefer Case should be reopened.

Same for Andrea Hall.