CA - Mass shooting at Gilroy Garlic Festival, 3 dead up to 11 injured, 28 July 2019

[human]

Snipped by me.

I agree. And we haven't heard too much about him, other than that IG account which is disturbing, but also confusing.

I'd like to know more about his teen years - were there signs that he was heading in a disturbing direction. So far, we don't know much about him at all.

I know people will say that don't want to know anything about him other than he is a killer. I respect that, and I hope people will also respect that some of us are very interested in finding out what makes these killers tick, what send them on that path, etc.

jmo

Yes, I want to know and feel we should know. Otherwise there can be no progress made on identifying issues that lead to this.

We know from other killers that domestic violence seems to be common in the background, We know that an entitled sense of having a female is in the background of many.

Not sure of the other signs.

 

[angelainwi]

Search of Gilroy gunman’s home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

Search of Gilroy gunman's home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Search of Gilroy gunman’s home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

Search of Gilroy gunman's home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

It’s interesting how radical Islam was left out of the title. IMO

Investigators who searched the Nevada home of the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter found the makings of a massive attack, including a gas mask, bulletproof vest and empty boxes of ammunition, along with reading material on white supremacy and radical Islam, federal law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

The search of the apartment in the desolate town of Walker Lake, in Mineral County, also turned up a knife, a gun light, a camouflage backpack, gun pamphlets, computers and numerous electronic hard drives, an empty bottle of Valium, and a mysterious letter from “Virginia to Santino,” apparently referring to 19-year-old gunman Santino William Legan, according to copies of a search warrant released Tuesday.

Search of Gilroy gunman's home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

 

[Isabelle98]

Alek Minassian used a van to murder a dozen people in Toronto on April 23, 2018. He posted a note for "Supreme Gentleman Elliott Rogers" before the rampage.

Supreme Gentleman...utterly ridiculous...
Elliott Rogers killed 7 people just because I could not date girls! What kind of gentleman was this?

 

[gitana1]

What was the quote about white women?

I only saw the criticism of the type of people at the fair (mestizos) and about silicon valley people.

He indicated that his grandfather was Iranian but that doesn't really tell us much about his background.
He also described himself as Italian.
I'm still not sure what having blond hair or blue eyes has to do with it.
Did he have blue eyes?

It was just a side conversation about the stupidity of racism and how there are Iranians who have features popularly associated with Nordic peoples.

But really I think there's no rhyme or reason to these weirdos. They just illogically grasp onto whatever they can that seems angry and extreme. It doesn't have to fit and they can adhere to competing ideologies at the same time.

I think they're looking for any excuse to harm others. I note how often they pick innocent and happy kids or people who are having a good time. Many times going and healthy, with friends and significant others.

That's what they resent. That's what they want to dim.

They aren't having fun. They're not sweet and innocent. They don't have a supportive and healthy circle of friends they fit with or any chance of having a significant other. So they feel angry and want to destroy that happiness in others.

 

[gitana1]

Trying to rationalize or understand reasons for this mass murder and others like it is an exercise in futility.

It really does not matter what race, color, religion, sexual orientation, or political party he was associated with. Mental illness is something that can affect anyone, and that is ultimately what the cause of these tragedies usually is.

The shooter most likely was acting in a manner which made perfect sense to him. He had a logic system that would seem totally without sense to most people, but to him it was all "logical". Nothing anyone did at that gathering caused him to act out and nothing could have prevented him from carrying out his actions. Nothing short of taking him out of society for a length of time and treating his mental condition.

Certainly not all persons who suffer from a mental illness or disability are threats to themselves or others, but some are, as evidenced by so many publicized incidents of violence. Our country has become very sensitive to the rights of persons with mental illness, but to a point where the "rights" of certain individuals impact the rights of others in a tragic way.

I agree with your first two sentences. But I don't think all these people are classically insane. They're grudge hunters. Antisocial. Injustice collectors. Misfits. They covet what others have. Many are super arrogant and exceedingly entitled. They feel entitled to an authority and respect they did not earn and do not deserve. They feel entitled to a type of woman and feel enraged when that type of woman doesn't want him, all while never giving other types of women a chance.

There's some deep narcissism involved with many of these creeps.

I realize they can't all be painted with the same brush and some suffer from obvious, diagnosed mental illness (the Aurora theater shooter. The Gabby Giffords event shooter, for example).

But others probably really don't have any mental illness that can explain what they did, IMO. They'd probably pass the MMPII with only minor issues like maybe mild depression or some grandiosity.

 

[gitana1]

Snipped by me.

I agree. And we haven't heard too much about him, other than that IG account which is disturbing, but also confusing.

I'd like to know more about his teen years - were there signs that he was heading in a disturbing direction. So far, we don't know much about him at all.

I know people will say that don't want to know anything about him other than he is a killer. I respect that, and I hope people will also respect that some of us are very interested in finding out what makes these killers tick, what send them on that path, etc.

jmo

I was a daycare worker years back and remember a couple kids who socially couldn't cut it. One boy I remember him so well. He was about 10.

Other kids would try to interact and play with him but no matter what he would get weird. I was young at the time - 19- but realized he wanted badly to have friends but his desperation and feelings of inferiority just caused him to do strange things and not interact well.

Like he'd wouldn't get the flow of a game or imaginative play and would always weirdly add something that would turn it around to attention on him, even negative attention, sort of disrupting things.

He clearly lacked complex social skills but in a sense he didn't have the talent or ability to be a leader (and initiate a logical and fun game OR expand one in a way that was creative but made sense) and wasn't content with being a follower and just going along with and enjoying what someone else had initiated.

He always had to disrupt what the kids were playing with sort of non-sequiters or something goofy, or annoying.

I remember watching him and just wishing I could micromanage what he was doing and show him how he could do it differently and more acceptably. But it wasn't my role and I wasn't at all trained for that.

I was young but sort of saw this as foreshadowing of an isolated life as an angry misfit.

I'm curious as to what goes on in their homes. Are they raised to be entitled? Not given warm love and parenting that utilizes humor and calmness? Are they not put in intensive therapy at a young age to learn how to socialize?

Nowadays they have something called dialectal behavioral therapy. It's often a group therapy that has proved successful with the hardest of patients - those with borderline personality disorder- but it's used to treat anyone (often teens) who exhibit harmful behaviors and socialization issues.

It has roots in Buddhist ideology and is really centered on mindfulness and accountability. I happen to know about it because of a friend who is a psych and works with borderlines and because of my job which has resulted in some messed up kids due to extreme combat between parents. A couple have been involved in this group therapy and have made leaps and bounds.

I wonder if something like that would be important to target toward anti-social loners who don't seem to have social skills. It might prevent them from totally twisting into the monsters we see today.

Dialectical Behavior Therapy | Psychology Today

 

[gitana1]

It’s interesting how radical Islam was left out of the title. IMO

Investigators who searched the Nevada home of the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter found the makings of a massive attack, including a gas mask, bulletproof vest and empty boxes of ammunition, along with reading material on white supremacy and radical Islam, federal law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

The search of the apartment in the desolate town of Walker Lake, in Mineral County, also turned up a knife, a gun light, a camouflage backpack, gun pamphlets, computers and numerous electronic hard drives, an empty bottle of Valium, and a mysterious letter from “Virginia to Santino,” apparently referring to 19-year-old gunman Santino William Legan, according to copies of a search warrant released Tuesday.

Search of Gilroy gunman's home finds items suggesting massive attack, white supremacy materials

Yeah like I said, these creeps glom onto anything that sounds extreme and violent to them. Often with no rhyme or reason and regardless as to whether it fits them.

Another mass murderer someone mentioned above was into white supremacy and then suddenly became a Muslim adopting a radical form of the ideology.

One of the two weirdos on the run in Canada was also deeply into Nazi ideology but also fancied anarchist and violent communist ideologies.

They just like whatever they feel is shocking and gives justification and an outlet for their rage.

 

[PastTense]

Santino William Legan is the Great-Grandson of Actor William Holden
Santino Legan’s Great-Grandfather is Actor William Holden | Heavy.com

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, I want to know and feel we should know. Otherwise there can be no progress made on identifying issues that lead to this.

We know from other killers that domestic violence seems to be common in the background, We know that an entitled sense of having a female is in the background of many.

Not sure of the other signs.

Yes, I posted awhile back some of the characteristics that have been found common to mass murderers over the past 30 years from research.

The first is mental illness. Half were found to have some sort of history, although not necessarily one that would suggest violent behavior. (like Adam Lanza)

They are often paranoid, resentful, or narcissistic.

Also it has been found that the same factors that would lead one to domestic violence are found to lead one to mass killings. (like Omar Mateen)

Another is a sense of grievance. They believe they have been wronged by a specific person or demographic group. There is almost always a personal grievance.

The third is a desire for notoriety. They are looking for attention or fame. They want to be seen as a hero standing up for a cause they believe in.

The only other thing that they all seem to have in comnon is that they are all men. The only female that I can recall was 17 year old Brenda Ann Spencer who shot at her school because she "didn't like Mondays."
Although she definitely had some very serious mental health issues. Imo

 

[Richard]

I agree with your first two sentences. But I don't think all these people are classically insane. They're grudge hunters. Antisocial. Injustice collectors. Misfits. They covet what others have. Many are super arrogant and exceedingly entitled. They feel entitled to an authority and respect they did not earn and do not deserve. They feel entitled to a type of woman and feel enraged when that type of woman doesn't want him, all while never giving other types of women a chance.

There's some deep narcissism involved with many of these creeps.

I realize they can't all be painted with the same brush and some suffer from obvious, diagnosed mental illness (the Aurora theater shooter. The Gabby Giffords event shooter, for example).

But others probably really don't have any mental illness that can explain what they did, IMO. They'd probably pass the MMPII with only minor issues like maybe mild depression or some grandiosity.

Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one. All of the behaviors you describe could well be shown to be a result of mental illness, but not necessarily insanity.

A big problem with the community's ability to deal effectively with persons who display various types of behavior (in advance of a tragic episode) is that a person generally cannot (easily) be involuntarily hospitalized by the state (county, city, etc.) UNLESS a law has been broken. And even then, it is the local law which either allows for it or not.

Even when a family knows intimately of a member's mental problems, trying to get him or her hospitalized is a difficult matter, involving documentation, previous diagnoses, and a supportable assertion that he is a threat to himself and/or others. IF, after a magistrate or official approves of the hospitalization, and the sheriff manages to locate the person IN HIS JURISDICTION within a brief stated time, then that person might be hospitalized for a brief time (like 3 to 6 days) before being released. There has to be a better way.

I do not mean to say that ALL of these mass shootings are done by someone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness. Many of them probably never saw a psychiatrist before they carried out their actions. And even if one was to have been seen by a Psychiatrist, he might not have been seen often enough or long enough for the doctor to come up with a professional diagnosis.

Even if someone were diagnosed with some sort of mental illness, that alone would not preclude the person from doing anything such as driving a car, purchasing a firearm, or refusing to take prescribed medication. All of those activities might be denied by a court of law (as a sentence following a conviction for something else), but not by a doctor.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Snipped by me.

I agree. And we haven't heard too much about him, other than that IG account which is disturbing, but also confusing.

I'd like to know more about his teen years - were there signs that he was heading in a disturbing direction. So far, we don't know much about him at all.

I know people will say that don't want to know anything about him other than he is a killer. I respect that, and I hope people will also respect that some of us are very interested in finding out what makes these killers tick, what send them on that path, etc.

jmo[/QUOTE
I'm always interested in what makes them tick, and I hope we can someday come up with a way to identify and fix/stop them before they become killers.

I'm always interested in what makes them tick and I hope we can someday come up with a way to identify and fix/stop them before they become killers.

 

[gitana1]

Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one. All of the behaviors you describe could well be shown to be a result of mental illness, but not necessarily insanity.

A big problem with the community's ability to deal effectively with persons who display various types of behavior (in advance of a tragic episode) is that a person generally cannot (easily) be involuntarily hospitalized by the state (county, city, etc.) UNLESS a law has been broken. And even then, it is the local law which either allows for it or not.

Even when a family knows intimately of a member's mental problems, trying to get him or her hospitalized is a difficult matter, involving documentation, previous diagnoses, and a supportable assertion that he is a threat to himself and/or others. IF, after a magistrate or official approves of the hospitalization, and the sheriff manages to locate the person IN HIS JURISDICTION within a brief stated time, then that person might be hospitalized for a brief time (like 3 to 6 days) before being released. There has to be a better way.

I do not mean to say that ALL of these mass shootings are done by someone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness. Many of them probably never saw a psychiatrist before they carried out their actions. And even if one was to have been seen by a Psychiatrist, he might not have been seen often enough or long enough for the doctor to come up with a professional diagnosis.

Even if someone were diagnosed with some sort of mental illness, that alone would not preclude the person from doing anything such as driving a car, purchasing a firearm, or refusing to take prescribed medication. All of those activities might be denied by a court of law (as a sentence following a conviction for something else), but not by a doctor.

I hear what you're saying. I don't believe mental illness is the root of all these killings. I also think the "mental health issues is the cause and must be addressed" approach is misguided and will lead to nothing.

It's kind of like when people argue that Amber Alerts shouldn't have strict criteria and anytime a kid goes missing it should be automatic.

Well many of us remember when car alarms came into vogue and how quickly we stopped looking out our windows and just ignored the sound.

Millions of young Americans have something that could be diagnosable. Mild depression. Some anxiety. Alcohol or drug abuse. Only an incredibly tiny fraction of them become killers.

You said someone has to pretty much break the law before they can be involuntarily committed. That's sort of true (it's actually they have to demonstrate they're a threat to themselves and others and legal statements or attempts to harm themselves can suffice). And point taken.

There are reasons the rules for involuntarily commitment are strict.

And forcing kids who may seem a bit odd into hospitals because we think they're isolated and may be slightly depressed, is no solution. That's ridiculous overkill.

I think that these issues are super complex. Just saying "mental illness" or "violent video games" or "parenting" as the cause is not reasonable IMO.

There are always various factors at play, no two cases are the same and I don't know that there are ever any clear answers. I think it comes down to choice for these people. They know what they're doing and they choose to do it.

But some things might possibly help reduce these cases. Like not giving your isolated and weird kid access to guns. Not giving these cowards recognition by calling them macho sounding things like "killer" "shooter" "gunman" and by plastering their names and faces everywhere. Making sure young men are raised to understand they're not entitled to sexual or to date whoever they want. Honest and heartfelt communication with ones kids about who they are and who they want to be. What they feel. Not lauding the sudden and extreme religiosity of a young person and realizing that could be a sign of extremism. Etc.

It's a complex issue with no one cause and no one solution, IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one. All of the behaviors you describe could well be shown to be a result of mental illness, but not necessarily insanity.

A big problem with the community's ability to deal effectively with persons who display various types of behavior (in advance of a tragic episode) is that a person generally cannot (easily) be involuntarily hospitalized by the state (county, city, etc.) UNLESS a law has been broken. And even then, it is the local law which either allows for it or not.

Even when a family knows intimately of a member's mental problems, trying to get him or her hospitalized is a difficult matter, involving documentation, previous diagnoses, and a supportable assertion that he is a threat to himself and/or others. IF, after a magistrate or official approves of the hospitalization, and the sheriff manages to locate the person IN HIS JURISDICTION within a brief stated time, then that person might be hospitalized for a brief time (like 3 to 6 days) before being released. There has to be a better way.

I do not mean to say that ALL of these mass shootings are done by someone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness. Many of them probably never saw a psychiatrist before they carried out their actions. And even if one was to have been seen by a Psychiatrist, he might not have been seen often enough or long enough for the doctor to come up with a professional diagnosis.

Even if someone were diagnosed with some sort of mental illness, that alone would not preclude the person from doing anything such as driving a car, purchasing a firearm, or refusing to take prescribed medication. All of those activities might be denied by a court of law (as a sentence following a conviction for something else), but not by a doctor.

Yes, certainly not all, but about half of those that committed mass killings were known to have mental illness.

Adam Lanza had extensive therapy and treatment from psychologists and psychiatrists yet he still murdered 20 young children and 6 adults.

Maybe that's indicative of the state of mental health treatment in this country.

I really don't know what the answer is.

The one factor common to all is the easy access to these types of weapons.
Imo

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I wonder what he did for money? He was able to afford a car, an apartment, and an expensive weapon. Did he have a job? I've been searching and can find nothing. Although I doubt any company would be overly happy to admit to having him as an employee.

 

[Cryptic]

But really I think there's no rhyme or reason to these weirdos. They just illogically grasp onto whatever they can that seems angry and extreme. It doesn't have to fit and they can adhere to competing ideologies at the same time.

They aren't having fun. They're not sweet and innocent. They don't have a supportive and healthy circle of friends they fit with or any chance of having a significant other. So they feel angry and want to destroy that happiness in others.

Very well said.

As a side note, the Jerard and Amanda Miller- the couple who murdered the police officers in Las Vegas also mixed anger at the world with ideologically inconsistent positions. They had appeared at leftist oriented “Occupier” rallies with partial masks and signage with left wing talking points.

They then showed up armed and angry in support of the far right Clive Bundy cattle / range use standoff. Just prior to the murders, they went to the left again and posted social media supportive of a single national health care system.

Investigators who searched the Nevada home of the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter found the makings of a massive attack, including a gas mask, bulletproof vest and empty boxes of ammunition, along with reading material on white supremacy and radical Islam, federal law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

Hmm.....he current CNN article, though emphasizing the white supremacy material, also omits any reference to radical Islamic material.
Extremist material found in home used by Gilroy festival shooter, source says - CNN

 

[Kubirai]

Santino William Legan is the Great-Grandson of Actor William Holden
Santino Legan’s Great-Grandfather is Actor William Holden | Heavy.com

Virginia Holden was adopted daughter of William Holden. Her mom was Ardis Ankerson aka Brenda Marshall. SL's mom Ardis Baylor was named after her original given name.

I checked out the "Iranian" maternal grandfather. He was a progressive socialist economics professor, who changed his name to Ali Baylor and even Allen Baylor. The grandfather Baylor died in 2001.

Ardis Baylor was raised in a progressive educated family, essentially like any "white" American. People trying to blame SL's 1/4 Iranian ancestry for the "white tw*t" comment are probably highlighting their own prejudice.

 

[Kubirai]

current CNN article, though emphasizing the white supremacy material, also omits any reference to radical Islamic material.

He wasn't riling against crusaders and infidels.

 

[Cryptic]

He wasn't riling against crusaders and infidels.

Then it should not be reported that he ranted against such people. Rather, it should simply be reported that radical Islamic material was also found in his possession.

 

[Kubirai]

Then it should not be reported that he riled against such people. Rather, it should simply be reported that radical islamic material was also found in his possession.

Some of the most popular "radical islam" related books are written by proponents of Muslim ban. They often collect extreme online stuff highlighted by MEMRI and SITE, to use as source for anti-muslim bigotry.

So we have to look at SL's overall views and actions.