Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[susiQ]

One would have to think, if they are alive. Why not fess up, instead of potentially being charged with murder? You're in trouble either way ...

Maybe because they haven’t been charged with anything. IF the boys are alive, and I highly doubt it even if they were sold, why admit to anything? Ride it out and hope LE can’t make a case. Life goes on. Ask Barry Morphew, although that may come to a grinding halt! IF they are eventually charged, maybe someone will take a deal and sell the other one out.

I do think, they like others before them, thought they had it all figured out, except they didn’t. The inconsistencies are out there for all to ponder. Their words betray them. At this point, they know very few are buying what they’re trying to sell, but they have nothing to lose by staying silent until someone needs to “sing.” They’re betting on LE not being able to make a case. I’m betting LE will. JMHO.

 

[Dre]

I feel like whatever did happen is a big deal, like many years in prison big, or they’d already have cracked by now, at least one of them.
Murder,
Selling,
Or absolute neglect to a disturbing degree.

moo

 

[fraudqueen]

IMO.......I think this has led the FBI to a much bigger issue (at least that's what I'm hoping).

 

[fcavanaugh]

BBM

And that is why we don't hear a plea for their safe return and or their welfare. They have already processed it. It could also be that they are beyond help (Deceased) ergo no plea and concern. It may also be that they are being cared for by someone else, again, that's why no plea and concern.

Right. Jumping off your post regarding the bolded, if parents are allowing someone to care for
O & O for reasons along the lines they got overwhelmed caring for 6 kids etc., reporting them missing, obviously makes no sense.

IMO, if the parents know the boys are alive, the only scenario I could imagine them not revealing this is if they sold/trafficked the boys, and 1.) they think they can get away with it-LE can’t build a case against them and/or, 2.) whomever they sold the boys to, is extremely dangerous individual(s), and threatened them with serious bodily harm if they identify who they/their network are.

IMHO, the boys weren’t abducted by a stranger or ran off and got lost in the desert. They have been “gone” since before 12/21/20 either due to parental neglect/abuse gone too far, or they were sold/trafficked (lower on my list of guessed), and something happened that required parents to produce the boys- DCFS came calling, Christmas coming up and extended family asked to see them.....

All of the above IMHOO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

IMO.......I think this has led the FBI to a much bigger issue (at least that's what I'm hoping).

My thoughts also. Major drug ring or financial fraud network are my two top guesses. Both are of widespread concern in the area and arrests have been in the area’s news lately.

eta:Maybe both and they intertwine. One hand holds/feeds the other.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The Chief’s hesitant words and tone told me they know something. About something. Something big. Something he can’t/won’t compromise. Maybe something the FBI is working on. We haven’t heard from them and they certainly control the loop.

 

[10ofRods]

It's really interesting to ponder what made the parents call in that the boys were missing at that particular time, especially if they'd been missing longer. Surely the older kids have spoken to police.

Most likely, they'd been missing a short while (but longer than the parents' story indicates). If the story is a cover-up, it's a pretty easy story to think up. Unfortunately, it's very hard to believe the boys wandered off and have not been found in that area, given how there are no tall grasses or bushes, etc.

Abduction seems to be the parent-friendly alternative. And...that area has every sort of crime, IMO. I still think it's really a strange theory that an abductor would come into these people's back yard while the dad was outside gathering twigs and such.

 

[MsMarple]

RSABBM
Although I don’t think the boys just walked away while unsupervised and were then “taken” by someone, the bolded part of your post is what I can’t get my head around. Killing two? That’s what makes me consider the remote possibility that they were sold which is admittedly the least likely. If anyone here can talk me out of it, please do! What, of what we know so far, would preclude this possibility?

I'll give it a shot, to see if I can argue it with myself, lol.

The main reason I don't believe the boys were sold is that there are easier targets out there that wouldn't bring the attention that these boys are getting for being missing. IOW, there are "throwaway" kids that don't get reported or aren't reported for years that would keep a buyer "safe." Right now we have a couple of little ones in threads here who remain unidentified, so why risk having multiple LE agencies searching for known kids?

In a past thread where a 6 year old Canadian girl disappeared after her mother was murdered I brought up the question of her having been sold, especially since the man in question was gang-affiliated and a known trafficker. Other members posted some pretty convincing reasons why that wasn't a likely case, citing statistics correlating age with risk. And yes, sadly it turned out the man murdered her.

So my argument rests on the boys being high risk for the perp being found and that they don't fit the typical age bracket (and possibly the wrong gender but I don't know for sure).

And I know you didn't ask but I also thought about the parents "rehoming" the boys and again I'm skeptical. It seems there aren't many laws covering rehoming as long as the child isn't harmed.* In fact, don't we have a case here about some YouTube vlogger who rehomed her child and got away with it?

So IMO it's more likely the boys were harmed. Hopefully we'll hear more soon about the circumstances and for now I trust all the LE agencies to do their job.

*https://www.childwelfare.gov/news-events/adoptiontriad/editions/aug2019/

 

[susiQ]

I'll give it a shot, to see if I can argue it with myself, lol.

The main reason I don't believe the boys were sold is that there are easier targets out there that wouldn't bring the attention that these boys are getting for being missing. IOW, there are "throwaway" kids that don't get reported or aren't reported for years that would keep a buyer "safe." Right now we have a couple of little ones in threads here who remain unidentified, so why risk having multiple LE agencies searching for known kids?

In a past thread where a 6 year old Canadian girl disappeared after her mother was murdered I brought up the question of her having been sold, especially since the man in question was gang-affiliated and a known trafficker. Other members posted some pretty convincing reasons why that wasn't a likely case, citing statistics correlating age with risk. And yes, sadly it turned out the man murdered her.

So my argument rests on the boys being high risk for the perp being found and that they don't fit the typical age bracket (and possibly the wrong gender but I don't know for sure).

And I know you didn't ask but I also thought about the parents "rehoming" the boys and again I'm skeptical. It seems there aren't many laws covering rehoming as long as the child isn't harmed.* In fact, don't we have a case here about some YouTube vlogger who rehomed her child and got away with it?

So IMO it's more likely the boys were harmed. Hopefully we'll hear more soon about the circumstances and for now I trust all the LE agencies to do their job.

*https://www.childwelfare.gov/news-events/adoptiontriad/editions/aug2019/

Thank you for your thoughts! I agree, it’s low on my list as well but I just haven’t been able to cross it off . It’s much more likely that neglect and or severe physical abuse are the reason they are missing. JMHO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Topical:
Crime Map

 

[rosesfromangels]

The Chief’s hesitant words and tone told me they know something. About something. Something big. Something he can’t/won’t compromise. Maybe something the FBI is working on. We haven’t heard from them and they certainly control the loop.

I agree with you. All this digging tells me the have a good idea of what occurred here, and I suspect they have gotten some good tips.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Knox]

Right. Jumping off your post regarding the bolded, if parents are allowing someone to care for
O & O for reasons along the lines they got overwhelmed caring for 6 kids etc., reporting them missing, obviously makes no sense.

IMO, if the parents know the boys are alive, the only scenario I could imagine them not revealing this is if they sold/trafficked the boys, and 1.) they think they can get away with it-LE can’t build a case against them and/or, 2.) whomever they sold the boys to, is extremely dangerous individual(s), and threatened them with serious bodily harm if they identify who they/their network are.

IMHO, the boys weren’t abducted by a stranger or ran off and got lost in the desert. They have been “gone” since before 12/21/20 either due to parental neglect/abuse gone too far, or they were sold/trafficked (lower on my list of guessed), and something happened that required parents to produce the boys- DCFS came calling, Christmas coming up and extended family asked to see them.....

All of the above IMHOO.

Extended family becoming suspicious is at the top of my list. Primarily because of the blog posts and the way they appear not to support TW & JW. It seems likely that once the boys were reported missing and LE shared some information, they realized all was not as it appeared to be. No one wants to think their loved one is capable of a heinous act, I really feel for the situation they are in. JMO~

Another thing I've been musing over in this case. The amount of YouTubers who are basically trying to function as investigative reporters. I noticed it in the Suzanne Morphew case, but this one has them all doubling down. Will MSM eventually take a backseat to this trend?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I cannot believe there is no word on these two little boys.

It won't be much longer.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

It won't be much longer.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I hope that's the case, but going by what the police chief said it doesn't sound like they are even close to an arrest. He said they have no physical evidence at all, they have a lot of circumstantial evidence but would need a lot more to build their case.

He also said there is no evidence that proves the boys are deceased so at least that sounds hopeful.

I think they need someone to come forward who knows what happened, although it's probably not likely.

Imo

 

[musemoon]

There has been some talk of the money in foster/adoption and the idea that it's some sort of money-making opportunity for fost/adopt parents. I can imagine it might seem like a great gig for those who have never raised traumatized kids, however, with very few exceptions, most fost/adopt children have been traumatized and experience acting out behaviors at some time in their lives. My family is a CA fost/adopt family. ALL of the children in our family were adopted through DCFS and my mother lost her life protecting a child in her care. The money MOST fost/adopt parents receive is to help them raise kids with significant needs. Even cute newborns grow up to have them...

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/child-trauma.pdf

So before we start screaming for sweeping overhauls of the fost/adopt system, we need to understand the nature of foster adoption. A lawyer needs to go before a judge and argue that the adoptive family is better suited for permanent placement of the child over the biological family, so adoption is not easily decided or done. Do bad parents slip through this system...yes they do. Can a shady crook become a foster adoptive parent? Well, they better be one hell of a great actor, with a super clean FBI record, job history, and financial background...seriously. The only way to escape this intense scrutiny would be to be biologically related to the children in some way (even in a distant cousin once removed way). Those families are less carefully scrutinized. I think in Trisha's Youtube webcast there is some discussion that there is a chance this might be true in this case....however...

Imagine 4 young traumatized boys, and two perhaps healthier boys (so six boys) in one small house with two parents likely not equipped to handle their needs. I can imagine if you need control and dominance, having traumatized kids would really test your ability to parent them. Abuse and neglect in that setting can happen...especially if the parents don't have or utilize the resources available to them.

Also as soon as a child is adopted the social workers stop coming around, BUT the child should still have a team of caregivers who are watching out for them (therapists, doctors, teachers, physical therapists, speech therapists...etc) if you move that will sever those ties as will Covid restrictions, but I will say...those mandatory reporters are quick to report anything they see with adopted kids...most fost/adopt parents are very diligent because there are truly so many eyes on their children...unless you isolate them. But I can't imagine with having four fost/adopt kids there wasn't some ongoing therapy...or mandatory reporters connected to those kids in some way...

 

[imstilla.grandma]

It won't be much longer.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think I may have read before; it just didn’t register at the time to be key. No doubt the FBI were investigating the previous apartments before the night tripped on over to day. Nincompoops don’t work here:
https://www.countyoffice.org/bakersfield-california-fbi-office-bakersfield-ca-faa/

 

[ChatteringBirds]

IMO, We have to mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility this case will drag on for a long time, unfortunately.
There are just too many children who are going without justice even when it's clear they didn't run off- Lisa, Ayla, Roman, etc.
But with O. and O. they still have to prove that's not what happened.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think I may have read before; it just didn’t register at the time to be key. No doubt the FBI were investigating the previous apartments before the night tripped on over to day. Nincompoops don’t work here:
https://www.countyoffice.org/bakersfield-california-fbi-office-bakersfield-ca-faa/

Wait for it.....

(Someone's talking IMO)

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[katydid23]

rambunctious

synonyms: boisterous · unrestrained · irrepressible · exuberant · uproarious · rollicking · roisterous · rackety · noisy · loud · clamorous · unruly · disorderly · rowdy · badly behaved · riotous · undisciplined · ill-disciplined · unmanageable · uncontrollable · ungovernable · uncontrolled · obstreperous · disruptive · wild · rough · rumbustious · rampageous · robustious

It really is a very concerning word choice.
The above descriptions are not loving or kind. A man DESPERATE and HOSTILE imo.

It was so randomly eloquent in amongst his average to poor chopped up vocab.
I have never seen a single word used that is so alarming before.

Maybe mischiefess little monkeys, little dare devils etc. There are terms of endearment for neg things that still show love and support behind them.
That's what subliminally is off.

moo

I am not sure I agree. My Irish grandma used that term a lot. She had 10 kids, and then opened up a Home Day Care, that I worked in when I was in high school. She had a back covered patio that she named 'The Rambunctious Room'--it was full of pillows and stuffed animals, and she let the 'most rambunctious' kids run around and roughhouse for awhile, to calm themselves down.

She used the term with a twinkle in her eyes, never used it as 'badly behaved' or 'unruly.' She truly meant exuberant and noisy and irrepressible. She let the wild ones run around and wrestle each other before they had to calm down and play with everyone else politely.

That term means different things to different people, I guess. I am not saying this because I think they are 100% honest and innocent. Just saying that the word rambunctious can be a descriptor of energetic enthusiastic behaviour, not necessarily used as a negative bash type of word.

 

[katydid23]

I know in Washington state, once our adoption through the state was finalized, we no longer had state employees coming to our house. Adoption was done and so were they.

In California, it was the same for us. But we adopted newborns in private adoptions. Maybe Foster to Adopt is different.

But after the court finalised our adoptions, no more communication with the Social Workers after that.