Found Deceased CA - Paul Miller, 51, Canadian missing in Joshua Tree National Park, San Bernardino Co., 13 Jul 2018

[Suglo]

I wonder why Paul didn't ask "hey, have you seen any bighorn sheep?"

I don't see the post BTW.

It’s the first post about Paul being missing on the JTNP FB page (there are 3 total). The sister used someone’s account (initials DJR) to post (maybe her husband’s account?)

You have a valid point. I wonder if photographing the sheep was actually his mission. Most people who know anything about bighorn sheep know that they are pretty elusive especially once the sun comes out and it heats up.

 

[PaulR]

It’s the first post about Paul being missing on the JTNP FB page (there are 3 total). The sister used someone’s account (initials DJR) to post (maybe her husband’s account?)

You have a valid point. I wonder if photographing the sheep was actually his mission. Most people who know anything about bighorn sheep know that they are pretty elusive especially once the sun comes out and it heats up.

Would he been able to see them even if he was on the trail at 9am? It's already going to be heating up if it's going to be a hot day.

 

[MaryG12]

In the video: Paul's family seems very passive? Or something? Just seemed off to me? Almost like they want to blame someone for Paul's being missing. It didn't seem like they wanted to be interviewed. They look scared. Is that it?

I guess I'm used to blustery Americans who rattle everyone's chains when it comes to loved ones missing.
Didn't Paul's wife return home rather quickly after Paul's disappearance?

The video has thrown me off. Not sure exactly what to think. I'm in no way victim shaming or blaming. I feel really badly for those who love and miss Paul.

One hole in that interview that really stands out for me anyways, is how anyone in his family not mention if the couple met with and spoke with anyone in particular prior to Paul going back to JT after the two were there earlier in the morning.

 

[Suglo]

Would he been able to see them even if he was on the trail at 9am? It's already going to be heating up if it's going to be a hot day.

I seriously doubt it. I know a wildlife biologist who heads the bighorn sheep program (and mountain lion program) for the State of California and was told that you’re lucky if you can spot one at dawn.

 

[PaulR]

I seriously doubt it. I know a wildlife biologist who heads the bighorn sheep program (and mountain lion program) for the State of California and was told that you’re lucky if you can spot one at dawn.

Less and less of this story makes sense. If I really wanted to take photos of bighorn sheep, I'd do a little research to find out where in the park to go and when. Paul seems someone who would have prepared a bit, given this was the trip of a lifetime.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

She hopes he can be found soon for all their emotional sakes but also for the wife’s and kids’ financial sake as the life insurance will not pay out for seven years if one is missing. No body, no insurance $ until that time period has passed.

That's useful to know. A long delayed insurance payout makes it much less likely, IMO, that an insurance fraud could be involved.

 

[PaulR]

She thanks everyone for their dedication to finding Paul and especially thanks Neil for coming forward with his sighting of Paul that morning. She says Paul is an experienced hiker and also a very friendly, talkative person. She thinks he was in a hurry to get to the oasis which is why he didn’t stop to chat with Neil. She hopes he can be found soon for all their emotional sakes but also for the wife’s and kids’ financial sake as the life insurance will not pay out for seven years if one is missing. No body, no insurance $ until that time period has passed.

My understanding, from an earlier article at a law firm I liked to earlier, is that it could be sooner than 7 years. They'd have to go before a court and make the case that Paul had to be dead due to circumstances.

 

[Lilibet]

One hole in that interview that really stands out for me anyways, is how anyone in his family not mention if the couple met with and spoke with anyone in particular prior to Paul going back to JT after the two were there earlier in the morning.

Had they been there already that morning? I got the impression it was “earlier” as in a day or two before. If the Neil_witness account is accurate, I don’t think there would have been time for them both to hike, take her back to the hotel, Paul return and pass Neil between 9 and 9:15. Just my take on what was said though.

I suspect that Paul’s return to the trail in hopes of seeing sheep the day they were leaving was quite impulsive and perhaps he even decided when he got up that morning, hence the late start and “man on a mission.” If my husband wanted to do something like that I’d have told him it was foolhardy to risk missing our plane on a hot morning over sheep. If he’d insisted he could make it work, I’d have been quite annoyed, but what can you do? My parting “I love you” might have been just a tad bit cranky.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Had they been there already that morning? I got the impression it was “earlier” as in a day or two before. If the Neil_witness account is accurate, I don’t think there would have been time for them both to hike, take her back to the hotel, Paul return and pass Neil between 9 and 9:15. Just my take on what was said though.

I suspect that Paul’s return to the trail in hopes of seeing sheep the day they were leaving was quite impulsive and perhaps he even decided when he got up that morning, hence the late start and “man on a mission.” If my husband wanted to do something like that I’d have told him it was foolhardy to risk missing our plane on a hot morning over sheep. If he’d insisted he could make it work, I’d have been quite annoyed, but what can you do? My parting “I love you” might have been just a tad bit cranky.

BBM: These two thoughts (emphasis on the 'if') plus the failure of SIX DIFFERENT TRACKING DOGS to pick up a scent cause my hinkymeter to bury the needle. Plus another reason from the presser with the wife.
MOO
I remain (probably all alone) on my side of the fence.

 

[Lilibet]

BBM: These two thoughts (emphasis on the 'if') plus the failure of SIX DIFFERENT TRACKING DOGS to pick up a scent cause my hinkymeter to bury the needle. Plus another reason from the presser with the wife.
MOO
I remain (probably all alone) on my side of the fence.

You’re not necessarily alone, but other scenarios just seem too complicated to pull off IMO. Not impossible, but complicated.

I do question that Neil was able to recognize Paul in retrospect after seeing him for only 10-20 seconds when he saw the poster later. Witness sightings are often wrong. Paul was pretty short, so that may have been memorable to Neil.

I haven’t seen the presser, but his wife saying in her recent interview that she couldn’t “move on” without knowing what happened hit me funny. However, anger is part of grief and could subtly color her comment. Personally, I would struggle if I lost my husband because he did something totally foolhardy.

 

[PaulR]

I haven’t seen the presser, but his wife saying in her recent interview that she couldn’t “move on” without knowing what happened hit me funny.

To be fair, how many families say they can't move on until the body of their loved one is recovered?

 

[Lilibet]

To be fair, how many families say they can't move on until the body of their loved one is recovered?

True, families often say they want “closure,” whatever that means. I don’t think I usually hear them say the words “move on” and that just struck me as an odd choice of words, so soon. But as I said, the emotions of grief are complex and can color how we say things. And finding the body can certainly aid in the healing process, which ultimately might result in “moving on” in the future.

 

[Satchie]

I feel like I've followed a similar drama many times, starting with the Dutch girls that went missing in Panama: everyone convinced they must have been abducted, "how could they possibly have gone off the trail?" We'll never know why, but they did, and it proved to be a fatal decision.

Another example was young Joe Keller from Tennessee who went missing while running on a road on his first day visiting Colorado. "But more than a month after his disappearance and a massive search by the FBI, police from several Colorado counties, two Cleveland investigators and dozens of volunteers with drones and (15) search dogs, not a trace of Keller has been found." Local teen Joe Keller's missing person case stirs debate

There were people in Tennessee making accusations that it was some conspiracy by Colorado authorities, theories about abductions, accusations against people who were with him, people taking lie detector tests, huge reward, private searches. Finally Joe was found by someone out rock climbing: he'd gone up above the road, probably to get a view, and slipped off a cliff.

What seems the common denominator in most of these cases is a) they were in an environment that was very unfamiliar to them b) they either lost the trail, or they went off it for some reason.

I can easily imagine someone like Paul deciding he'd get a bit closer to something that might have been sheep. Or wanting to get to a high point where he could get a better view.

There are cases where a person has privately decided to escape their life and want to die where they won't be found, but it's rare that can ever be confirmed. And it's much more pleasant to do that in the extreme cold in Ontario, than in searing heat.

 

[pillywiggin]

The author David Paulides has written extensively about the issues related to searches for people missing in national parks. The book series is called "Missing 411." There are also several interviews with Paulides available on YouTube. I haven't decided what I think about some of think of the more "unusual" aspects of his theories, but the information about how searches are conducted in national parks and how many people disappear without a trace in them are astounding.

 

[PaulR]

The author David Paulides has written extensively about the issues related to searches for people missing in national parks. The book series is called "Missing 411." There are also several interviews with Paulides available on YouTube. I haven't decided what I think about some of think of the more "unusual" aspects of his theories, but the information about how searches are conducted in national parks and how many people disappear without a trace in them are astounding.

This is the guy who says Bigfoot is responsible even for ordinary disappearances where the cause is well-known?

 

[Eevee Pie]

I haven’t seen the presser, but his wife saying in her recent interview that she couldn’t “move on” without knowing what happened hit me funny.

Same but the sentence was clearly heavily cut before and after and the context she might have been speaking within might not leave the same feeling as the edited phrase.

 

[pillywiggin]

This is the guy who says Bigfoot is responsible even for ordinary disappearances where the cause is well-known?

He was apparently a Bigfoot researcher at one point. In the "Missing 411" books he does not propose a theory about why people disappear. I don't have any interest in that. I find the information about the park service itself the most interesting. For example, the idea that there is no central database of people who have gone missing in national parks is perplexing. Frequently people are found in areas already searched, or nothing, not backpacks, shoes, etc.is ever found is interesting. I understand the vastness of these areas...I guess I am just creeped out by the idea that people disappear without a trace.

 

[tarabull]

We have big horn sheep in Canada....just a little BIGGY, in case you didn't know, now you now.

 

[MaryG12]

The author David Paulides has written extensively about the issues related to searches for people missing in national parks. The book series is called "Missing 411." There are also several interviews with Paulides available on YouTube. I haven't decided what I think about some of think of the more "unusual" aspects of his theories, but the information about how searches are conducted in national parks and how many people disappear without a trace in them are astounding.

One problem with Paulides theory on people disappearing, and Bigfoot.

Either Bigfoot gets around really fast (maybe not by Uber, but some other means), or there are a species of Bigfoot across the nation which resides only in state and national parks.

Not sure I believe in Paulides' theory.

 

[pillywiggin]

As I stated before, in the "Missing 411" books, Paulides does not theorize that Bigfoot is responsible for disappearances in national parks. What makes the books relevant to this discussion, and the reason why I mentioned them at all, is the in-depth explanations on how searches for the missing are conducted in national parks. There is also discussion of the numbers of people who go missing in national parks, the responses of national park employees to reports of the missing, a discussion of cases in which the military has been involved in searches for people missing in national parks and discussion of the extent of the involvement of the FBI in some cases of people missing in national parks. There is also explanation of how crimes that are committed in national parks are investigated, and the jurisdictions involved in investigations.