Still Missing Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 *Guilty* *Appeal* #29

[otto]

Yes but I may add, he does not feel. And they do not offer brain transplant yet..

He must feel something if he chose to read a book about how to kill without feeling emotion.

 

[Slebby]

Spectrum disorders are now fully recognized, and mental illness falls under spectrum disorders. I could never view someone like Garland as a normal person, and the reason he is not normal is because he does not think straight.

<modsnip>

There is a great difference between people on the spectrum and people like MdeG who was found NCR. MOO.

If there was any basis for a NCR defence, I'm sure DG's very capable and experienced legal team would have explored that option. His condition, whatever it is (never made public) clearly did not fall into a category of NCR.

Imho


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[Bravo]

I hope there were no injuries to any guards. That's all I got :facepalm:

 

[Satchie]

Judge Gates prefaced his sentence by stating this was not just about Garland, it was also about the community. I believe he means that many Canadians would lose faith in the justice system if exceptionally henious crimes were not punished with exceptional sentences, and I agree.

Tweets reporting his comments, below:

Valerie Fortney &#8207;@ValFortney 17s17 seconds ago
Judge: sentence today not just about #Garland and age he will be. It is about the whole community.

Bill GravelandVerified account &#8207;@BillGraveland 17s17 seconds ago
Sentencing is not just about sentencing of #Garland said Gates. It's also a way to express "our collective outrage".

Reid FiestVerified account &#8207;@ReidFiest 24s24 seconds ago
To sustain public confidence.. Justice Gates says regarding handing down a sentence. #Garland

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[naz]

He must feel something if he chose to read a book about how to kill without feeling emotion.

yes, he feels himself.. Those books gave him a thrill,he feels that. Feelings, another thing.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

My son shared stories with me and

Sounds like your son didn't hate you for putting him in jail. He understood you did it out of love. You are a great mom. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

<modsnip>

In bold is the section that supports the point that there is a legal mandate to rehabilitate prisoners through various programs with the objective of reducing recidivism.

"The Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) has a legal mandate to provide programs and services that address offenders’ criminal behaviour. We offer these both in institutions and in the community. Correctional programs are based on research of “what works”. We are guided by the most recent evidence in correctional research, relevant theory and current practices. Our programs focus on four areas:

Correctional programs
Education programs
Social programs
Vocational programs​

Correctional programs target factors that have been proven to reduce future re-offending. They were developed and put in place with the help of our most experienced program developers, facilitators, and managers. We have also consulted with internal and external stakeholders. We offer programs designed for men, women and Aboriginal offenders."

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/correctional-process/002001-2000-eng.shtml

I think in most cases this is the goal in practice but, beyond being able to be a manageable prisoner, I think that there are some prisoners where rehabilitation is never going to happen and, with the pressure on resources we know exists in every federal department, resources are allocated to where they will have the most benefit.

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[PrincessButtercup]

I think in most cases this is the goal in practice but, beyond being able to be a manageable prisoner, I think that there are some prisoners where rehabilitation is never going to happen and, with the pressure on resources we know exists in every federal department, resources are allocated to where they will have the most benefit.

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And don't get me started on how resources would be better allocated to child and youth intervention programs, mental health programs, eliminating homelessness (the criminalization of the homeless is disgusting,) drug and alcohol rehabilitation, keeping kids in school, etc., etc.

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[Cherchri]

Garland is now guaranteed special protection and privileges for his 75 year prison sentence. If his head injury is severe enough - or if he feigns that it is more severe than it is - who knows what special treatment he's entitled to. It's unfortunate that Justice Gates did not consider the consequences of his decisions. He should have put him in protective custody.

He was in the remand center - not the ultimate destination for him. Everyone who was on trial in Calgary yesterday would have been in the remand centre - regardless of the nature of their crimes. This has nothing to do with Justice Gates or the sentence he imposed <modsnip>

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Yes but I may add, he does not feel. And they do not offer brain transplant yet..

Psychopathy has a very, very low response to mental health intervention whereas schizophrenia is generally well magaged with medication. My cousin didn't find out he was schizophrenic until he was in his 40's! Sometimes it just lays low until (or if) some kind of stressful causes it to become active

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[ABro]

Punishment and rehabilitation are not mutually exclusive. The justice system in this country is supposed to be about both.

Any decent parent can tell you both are needed.

Some people, however, aren't rehabilitatable no matter what you do.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Punishment and rehabilitation are not mutually exclusive. The justice system in this country is supposed to be about both.

Any decent parent can tell you both are needed.

Some people, however, aren't rehabilitatable no matter what you do.

I guess his parents finally realized it which is why there was no one there to support him in court.

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[Snoopster]

My son sadly has done some small time here in Ontario. Sadly or not I'm the one that has had him arrested each and every time. Mama don't play. All of his offences are alcohol related. My boy is an alcoholic. Anyhow he was in medical seg his last time (thankfully almost 2 years ago) they were very overcrowded. People on floors sleeping in cells. It as well was a remand type centre for people waiting for trial or under a 2 year term.
My son shared stories with me and the guards do turn away and "allow" things to happen. Jail scared my son. He was lucky he was in a cell with a pretty caring bunch for the most part but some guys got it bad. He could hear a new inmate being beaten at another unit which was Admin seg. This guy coming in was charged with molesting s young girl. No clue why I'm sharing all this. But prison is a whole new world.

ETA- just wanted to add I've tried every avenue before having to call police on my son. Just don't want people thinking I'm crazy [emoji15]


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Hugs Dyanna! I have absolutely no doubt you are a loving mom. You want to do what's right for your son. That isn't always what's easiest for your son. (Curious as to whether he was in EMC in London. There have been no shortage of stories about how overcrowded and terrible the conditions are there.)

Everyone is born different. Everyone has different life experiences. What you son has is someone who loves him and is trying to do right by him in the long-term.

 

[ABro]

I guess his parents finally realized it which is why there was no one there to support him in court.

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I would love to know more about DG's parents and background. I think it's a mistake to assume anything about them or put too much faith in the standard media reports. I wish Patti would talk and shed light onto how this monster came to be.

ETA: I also found Allen Liknes's very brief victim impact statement interesting.

 

[dyannaON]

My son has been to Maplehurst in Milton and Penetanguishene. Which terrified him as he was randomly moved out of the blue for the last two weeks of his sentence. They were on lockdown all the time due to staff shortages. So no phone calls. He would have a guy with more privileges call me and I thought he was such a nice old man....come to find out he murdered his wife. Gah I wanted to cry. Def not my world. But it intrigues me sooo much.


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[naz]

Psychopathy has a very, very low response to mental health intervention whereas schizophrenia is generally well magaged with medication. My cousin didn't find out he was schizophrenic until he was in his 40's! Sometimes it just lays low until (or if) some kind of stressful causes it to become active

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And there is always a wide spectrum in mental heath. I know we have a long way to go. It's difficult when the patients/individuals are the one that refuse treatment, and in many cases our heath system are too often happy/constrained to oblige. The family's burden is extensive, monetarily and emotionally draining.

 

[Tealgrove]

He must feel something if he chose to read a book about how to kill without feeling emotion.

I'm glad you brought that up. I have mulled that over and over. How to kill without emotion? Maybe the emotion was anger and he wanted to make sure he didn't screw up his plan. Maybe he knew he needed to contain that one emotion to get the job done as prescribed.

Unfortunately, we are never going to know.

As ABro stated earlier, I too want to know how DG came to be. What was he like as a child? Were there signs when he was young? Was there an event earlier in his life that turned him? I just can't believe that he saw a psychiatrist for ADHD. There has to be so much more.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

I guess his parents finally realized it which is why there was no one there to support him in court.

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I feel sad for them. If I were in their shoes I would be inconsolable and not for myself. I would want to apologize for my son. I would feel guilty. It's a horrible thing that senior Garlands and the rest of the Garland family have to deal with as well.

So much damage created by one person. The carnage is never-ending.

 

[casesensitive]

I personally believe there is a vast difference between MdeG's mental illness and DG's. MdeG was found NCR, DG was not. Many people deal with varying degrees of mental illness, and live normal productive lives, without killing 5 year old boys and their grandparents.


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I agree Slebby. DG may be sick, but knew right from wrong, as evidenced by his extensive efforts to commit the perfect murder and not get caught. He is legally responsible for his actions unlike the criminally insane.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I agree Slebby. DG may be sick, but knew right from wrong, as evidenced by his extensive efforts to commit the perfect murder and not get caught. He is legally responsible for his actions unlike the criminally insane.

There is a huge difference between suffering from a mental illness and not being able to determine right from wrong.

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