CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[No_Stone_Unturned]

But then I would have to assume that the car had nothing to do with the motive because if the scenario played out this way, the perp would have presumably been able to take the chip key and drive away with the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh and I forgot - when buying a Camaro the owner gets TWO keys. Each key chip is set differently to start the car. One key is used for the owner and the other one is kept in a safe place in case the owner loses the first key.

When the owner tries to drive away from GM the first time, the GM person sets each key by computer in order for the car to start.

These are really safe cars. Impossible to steal - unless your GM mechanic removes the engine. This would require MUCH work/many hours. Much oil/grease left under the car!

:twocents:

ETA: That all said - LE is able to ask GM to enable the car to open, be looked at, be towed away.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes, that's a very good point! Obviously LE felt there was some kind of evidence in the car that required it to be towed away and processed. Maybe AG WAS attacked in the car as she was coming from or going to somewhere.


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Yes but as soon as the seat belt was tampered with/unhooked, the car would start beeping! If there was an attack inside the car, the alarm would honk loudly! Until the attacking stopped.

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Catching up and just a couple of general comments ..

In the article quoting Safarik, we don't know whether or not he was part of the thinktank with the BSU. In the Edmonton serial killer case where a partial profile was released (an unusual occurrence in Canada) profilers were brought in from various outside agencies, including the FBI. IMO, it's not unrealistic to think that a profile has been developed in AG's case (if so, obviously one has not been officially released), that Safarik may have been involved in developing it, but the profile has not been "officially" released and the snippets from him were intentionally leaked.

WRT "geographic profiling", the K. Rossmo article linked upthread ... Kim Rossmo was the profiler who told Vancouver they had a serial killer on their hands but they didn't pay any attention. When Rossmo left VPD, he went on to teach at Texas State Univ and become Director of the Center for Geospatial Intelligence and Investigation. The guy knows his stuff

Re organized vs disorganized .. when we are talking profiling of a killer, those terms don't relate to whether or not somebody keeps a tidy house and someone else is a slob. It's more related to how the crime scene was left, not their general housekeeping skills.

WRT any possible connection between DM and AG, I noticed early on that a very close friend of Tim has a FB connection to a relative of someone close to AG. Always have to keep in mind the old "six degrees of separation", but I've always found that one particularly interesting.

Re whether or not DM or any of his associates could be involved in AG's murder with motive other than the car. MS springs to mind when considering his gory video 'Ghozted'. Seems there are dudes who just like filming gore.

okay, sorry ... was more than a couple of comments

 

[Sillybilly]

With all due respect, I truly don't understand how Audrey's case differs from the Caylee Anthony case (Cindy, George, etc), the Jon Benet Ramsey case (Jack and Patsy Ramsey), Haleigh Cummings case (Ron and Misty Cummings), the missing Jamison family, Joe Neff case, etc etc ... cases where people who were not formally named by LE as either POIs or suspects were allowed to be discussed at length through the entire threads (presumably because they were named in MSM as being related to the case).

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

With all due respect, I truly don't understand how Audrey's case differs from the Caylee Anthony case (Cindy, George, etc), the Jon Benet Ramsey case (Jack and Patsy Ramsey), Haleigh Cummings case (Ron and Misty Cummings), the missing Jamison family, Joe Neff case, etc etc ... cases where people who were not formally named by LE as either POIs or suspects were allowed to be discussed at length through the entire threads (presumably because they were named in MSM as being related to the case).

Are we going to let Audrey's thread die because of all the restrictions? Quite frankly, I don't know how/what to post except things about the car. And I highly doubt the car was the motive.......

:twocents:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe, we are interfering with the investigations and should pause for 3 months or so.
Then we will start again, possibly with new infos.

:fence: :jail: :fence: :jail: :fence:


Goodbye until 6. August?

 

[dotr]

Maybe, we are interfering with the investigations and should pause for 3 months or so.
Then we will start again, possibly with new infos.

:fence: :jail: :fence: :jail: :fence:


Goodbye until 6. August?

Hope we are not interfering with investigation, but wondering if you think something might pop up in the next few months?!
Also hoping whatever keeps you till August 6th is enjoyable, will miss your posts!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hope we are not interfering with investigation, but wondering if you think something might pop up in the next few months?!
Also hoping whatever keeps you till August 6th is enjoyable, will miss your posts!

Thank you :smile: , I would also miss your posts and these of our WS-friends!

No, I have no idea, whether news would crop out, but I hope so because of the huge investigation re. TB-DM/MS/CN. Perhaps there is a connection to AG-PK+2/JV/?, we haven't been aware? (So far I didn't want to think in this direction.)

 

[dotr]

Sex offenders in GTA, link first posted by Wser Patience on Toronto Cold Case thread, fwiw regarding potential poi in Audrey's case..


http://globalnews.ca/news/1313399/h...ther&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

"Most of inner-city Hamilton has high rates of sex offenders, with about 200 living below the Mountain. The western part of central Hamilton, along York Boulevard, has southern Ontario’s densest concentration of sex offenders"

 

[Snoopster]

Sex offenders in GTA, link first posted by Wser Patience on Toronto Cold Case thread, fwiw regarding potential poi in Audrey's case..


http://globalnews.ca/news/1313399/h...ther&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

"Most of inner-city Hamilton has high rates of sex offenders, with about 200 living below the Mountain. The western part of central Hamilton, along York Boulevard, has southern Ontario’s densest concentration of sex offenders"

I've been looking at that map and wondering. It's what I do...wonder. Do these maps count people housed at the detention centres as 'resident' in the area? I'm not sure. I wonder whether the sex offenders housed in these places are included in the 'count' of sex offenders in the area or whether there are halfway houses in the immediate vicinity housing sex offenders just released. Could this skew the stats?

I wouldn't mind knowing this as this could distort the stats.

 

[Chorley8]

Yes there are a lot of half way houses but that doesn't really skew the stats. In one case in last 10 years a man in half way house attacked a woman working in her shop in the downtown mall in the middle of the afternoon....she survived but barely.


There was a lovely Iranian woman few years ago some weeks pregnant she and her husband ran a magazine store then later a "head shop" when that didn't work out. Someone stabbed her to death for 20 dollars he was a young drifter/no fixed address sort of person. Hamilton is a bit odd: the violent crime stats are usually not that high compared to say Saskatoon but there are lots of half deranged people walking around in the core.

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/aetransientae-charged-in-beating-murder-of-downtown-shopkeeper/

We have heard about the stabber on this thread. I know of a young boy who was attacked without cause in the core about 10 years ago and had permanent brain injury.

I've been looking at that map and wondering. It's what I do...wonder. Do these maps count people housed at the detention centres as 'resident' in the area? I'm not sure. I wonder whether the sex offenders housed in these places are included in the 'count' of sex offenders in the area or whether there are halfway houses in the immediate vicinity housing sex offenders just released. Could this skew the stats?

I wouldn't mind knowing this as this could distort the stats.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Not meaning to be argumentative, but we know from LE that:
- there was no forced entry in Audrey's case
- the killer was someone known to her

Would Audrey have "known" a known sex offender and let him into her garage willingly? Who in Audrey's circle of friends would be a known sex offender? Even if Audrey herself didn't know of his past offenses.And wouldn't LE have immediately checked the whereabouts of all known sex offenders right after her body was found?


:twocents:

ETA:

Here's the link which says that Audrey knew her killer:

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/audrey-gleave-murder-remains-mystery-one-year-later-1.747175

 

[colette]

I don't know how LE can say the killer is known to Audrey until they solve the case. They can guess but that can not be known for now. I think because there were no signs of forced entry they may think she knew her killer. Then again if she was surprised with her garage door opened there would be no signs of forced entry.

 

[LambChop]

I don't know how LE can say the killer is known to Audrey until they solve the case. They can guess but that can not be known for now. I think because there were no signs of forced entry they may think she knew her killer. Then again if she was surprised with her garage door opened there would be no signs of forced entry.

It is interesting that they did arrest someone whom LE believed was responsible for the crime but had to let him go because of lack of evidence. I don't think they would have arrested him on a whim. It sounds as if they had enough evidence to believe it was this person but just did not have enough to prosecute him in court so they let him go. So evidence does exist, just not enough. jmo

 

[dreamwatcher]

quote from news article:
"Hamilton Police Det.-Sgt. Ian Matthews says the force was reviewing evidence as recently as this month with Ontario's Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS).

Ian Matthews took over from Hrab. Matthews committed suicide this year.
So now Audrey has another Detective on the case.

It seemed to me that Matthews had a fighting chance of solving this case.

That will be three detectives in total. This is not good in any investigation.

 

[Paragirl]

IMO LE did arrest DS - maybe not on a 'whim', but without much conclusive evidence. By most accounts residents in the area knew DS was around squatting in a nearby barn, and had been regularly, but no one reported being physically threatened by him as far as we know.

During the breached probation matter, a Brantford judge opined in court that he believed David Scott was not violent but could be intimidating because he frequently yelled in public places.

IMO he is just odd and suffering from some sort of mental illness. It sounds like some residents were uncomfortable and 'put off' by him, but I don't think anyone reported any violence or physical confrontations.

Spettigue accuses the police of pursuing his client without evidence, because he’s “eccentric.” Scott is known to shout and behave oddly and was generally not a popular neighbour when he lived in an abandoned barn several kilometres down the road from Gleave’s home.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2205656-eccentric-doesn-t-equal-murderer/

I live near Hamilton's downtown core, and have grown up in this area. I have become accustomed to living in a city full of interesting characters and mentally ill people. I know that a lot of people that are not used to being around people like that are uncomfortable and afraid, and tend to assume that these people are dangerous. Some of them can be, most of them are not. All JMO.

BBM

It's not unusual for police to arrest a suspect and lay charges while still waiting for evidence to be developed — forensic or otherwise.

But it is uncommon for the suspect to be freed when that evidence comes back.

IMO this statement speaks volumes. To me this says there is ample evidence from the scene, but it does not match/incriminate DS. IMO DS was arrested based on circumstantial evidence in the first place (just my opinion based on the way things unfolded and the info that has been made available by LE and in MSM - ie prior arrest, he owned/had a large knife, he is odd and shouts and appears scary/threatening, he is homeless, etc), and so, when the forensic evidence came back, if the issue was that there just wasn't ENOUGH evidence, or the evidence just wasn't definitively matched to DS, why RELEASE him? If they arrested and charged him without ample evidence, and felt they had enough to warrant charging him in the first place, then why drop the charges when the results come back and there simply STILL isn't ample evidence? IMO the evidence LE has doesn't match DS. IMO it must in fact exclude DS (even though it was said that he hasn't necessarily been ruled out as a suspect, I believe that was a "save face" statement).

BBM

Police had believed results from forensic tests coming in as early as Thursday would solidify the case, but they did not match Scott. The Crown’s office withdrew the first-degree murder charge, citing “no probability of conviction".

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2205722-anxiety-returns-as-murderer-still-on-the-loose/

BBM

Another officer said results returned from the Centre of Forensic Sciences did not match David Scott, and so the charges were dropped. He would not say what type of forensic testing had been done.

Why had Hamilton Police made the arrest in the first place, absent evidence in hand that was necessary to stand a solid chance of conviction at trial?

Part of the reason was Steve Hrab's inclination to pursue a prime suspect aggressively. Senior officers familiar with Hrab's career say this has been his pattern. And in some respects, David Scott looked good as a suspect.

Another motivating factor may have been perceived pressure from the public to arrest someone quickly.

This IMO is why DS was arrested and charged. People wanted answers and action, DS just happened to be the 'oddball' in the neighbourhood, and he looked good as a suspect. Personally I don't think DS committed this crime.

All just my opinion only.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I have a terribly sick feeling that Audrey's case will never be solved. Too many mess-ups, too many detectives in charge, perhaps still some citizens thinking that DLS really did kill her. I don't think DLS would have had the knowledge to kill her and then run back to hit the garage door closer and then run fast enough to escape the garage door which would be closing on him. And DLS 'hears a different drummer and steps to the drummer which he hears'. God forbid that anyone should be "different" from the rest of the populace. But those notions do not make him (or anyone else who is "different/stepping to a different drummer") guilty of murder. Just my own opinion.

In my heart and soul, I'll never give up on Audrey. Her killer(s) is/are out there and so far have gotten away with murder. That sickens me to no end.

I hope and pray for the murderer(s) to be caught, but..........

Stepping away for now to the drummer which I hear. (To paraphrase Henry David Thoreau.)

:seeya:

 

[Sillybilly]

IMO LE did arrest DS - maybe not on a 'whim', but without much conclusive evidence. By most accounts residents in the area knew DS was around squatting in a nearby barn, and had been regularly, but no one reported being physically threatened by him as far as we know.


IMO he is just odd and suffering from some sort of mental illness. It sounds like some residents were uncomfortable and 'put off' by him, but I don't think anyone reported any violence or physical confrontations.



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2205656-eccentric-doesn-t-equal-murderer/

I live near Hamilton's downtown core, and have grown up in this area. I have become accustomed to living in a city full of interesting characters and mentally ill people. I know that a lot of people that are not used to being around people like that are uncomfortable and afraid, and tend to assume that these people are dangerous. Some of them can be, most of them are not. All JMO.

BBM



IMO this statement speaks volumes. To me this says there is ample evidence from the scene, but it does not match/incriminate DS. IMO DS was arrested based on circumstantial evidence in the first place (just my opinion based on the way things unfolded and the info that has been made available by LE and in MSM - ie prior arrest, he owned/had a large knife, he is odd and shouts and appears scary/threatening, he is homeless, etc), and so, when the forensic evidence came back, if the issue was that there just wasn't ENOUGH evidence, or the evidence just wasn't definitively matched to DS, why RELEASE him? If they arrested and charged him without ample evidence, and felt they had enough to warrant charging him in the first place, then why drop the charges when the results come back and there simply STILL isn't ample evidence? IMO the evidence LE has doesn't match DS. IMO it must in fact exclude DS (even though it was said that he hasn't necessarily been ruled out as a suspect, I believe that was a "save face" statement).

BBM


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2205722-anxiety-returns-as-murderer-still-on-the-loose/

BBM




This IMO is why DS was arrested and charged. People wanted answers and action, DS just happened to be the 'oddball' in the neighbourhood, and he looked good as a suspect. Personally I don't think DS committed this crime.

All just my opinion only.

ITA Paragirl :goodpost:

 

[Sillybilly]

That SO article with the map dotr linked to shows (for Audrey's Brantford postal code starting N3T):

Population: 30881
Sex offenders: 27
Ratio per 100,000: 87:49

PS: Take my word on the figures, lol ... took me about 20 trys before I was finally able to click on the right, very tiny little spot on the map. BTW, that ratio is fairly low compared to say K0L which has a ratio of 203, but Hamilton is up there with a ratio of 297. Not very hard to drive from Hamilton to Ancaster.

 

[Sillybilly]

It is interesting that they did arrest someone whom LE believed was responsible for the crime but had to let him go because of lack of evidence. I don't think they would have arrested him on a whim. It sounds as if they had enough evidence to believe it was this person but just did not have enough to prosecute him in court so they let him go. So evidence does exist, just not enough. jmo

Yes, it all looked good at first blush LambChop, but as Paragirl pointed out, it wasn't a lack of evidence against DLS that sprung him ... it was that the forensic evidence they had did not match him.