Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[ldlager]

Which situation? The one where, according to you, the kids once again aren't getting their exact way and so they're bribing everyone to orchestrate things so they get what they want?

Doesn't this seem to be a non-issue since it seems no matter how you look at it, the estate will have to be determined by the courts, if H has no Will?

• If B killed H, then B doesn't get to be a beneficiary of H's Will, and if H has no will... it would be determined by the courts?
  
• If H killed B, then H doesn't get to be a beneficiary of B's Will, but yet he left everything to H, and so .. it would be determined by the courts?
  
• If double murder, they need to know timing; if B went first and left everything to H, but then H doesn't have a Will, then... it gets determined by the courts?
  
• If double murder, and H went first and she has no Will, then it gets determined by the courts?

And any person(s) claiming to be a beneficiary of H's Will would have to prove it, would they not? And good luck to them on that without H's Will.

It is preposterous to think that H wouldn't have had a Will. She was 70 years old, had already had a bout with throat cancer in addition to numerous other ailments, and she was one half of one of Canada's wealthiest couples. That makes sense.

What am I missing? It's early and I was up late.

If it was a double murder and honey died first, then Barry’s will stipulated that the kids would inherit, as honey predeceased him. No confusion there, and no need for the courts to “decide” imo

 

[Satchie]

I’m afraid you have lost me. Barry’s will apparently said that if he died first, honey would inherit. His will also said that if she died first, then his kids would inherit when Barry eventually died. Seems straightforward to me, I’m not sure what you are suggesting is confusing or contradictory.

I agree. Not sure about Ontario, but in other jurisdictions wills now require that you list an alternate beneficiary, in case you don't have time to revise the will after the primary beneficiary dies.

As well, a couple often die together in an accident and it's not possible to determine who died first. I'm not sure how that works, but there are legal procedures in place.

Also, I believe most of the wealth was held by the Apotex Foundation, rather than by Barry and Honey as individuals.

IIRC, property was held in Honey's name. She must have had a will.

 

[JDG]

If it was a double murder and honey died first, then Barry’s will stipulated that the kids would inherit, as honey predeceased him. No confusion there, and no need for the courts to “decide” imo

No one, other than possibly the coroners and police, know that to be true.
She left Apotex ahead of him but it doesn't mean she arrived home first.
Its based on rumour/hearsay so far.

 

[dotr]

If HS's will is not located or does not even exist, will the "children" essentially divide BS's assets ?
If revealing details of that will could potentially put its recipients in extreme danger, does that mean the perps have the ability to harm anyone, anywhere in the world?
Iirc, the Sherman offspring live in varied areas of the globe, assuming garden-variety killers would have difficulty gaining access to them, who might that imply the suspected culprits might be?
Mafia of one flavour or another?
speculation, imo.

 

[ldlager]

Wouldn’t it be such sweet irony if honey did in fact have a Will, and her Will named the winter siblings as her beneficiaries? Omg..........

 

[Satchie]

If HS's will is not located or does not even exist, will the "children" essentially divide BS's assets ?
If revealing details of that will could potentially put its recipients in extreme danger, does that mean the perps have the ability to harm anyone, anywhere in the world?
Iirc, the Sherman offspring live in varied areas of the globe, assuming garden-variety killers would have difficulty gaining access to them, who might that imply the suspected culprits might be?
Mafia of one flavour or another?
speculation, imo.

Personally, I don't think the judge has knowledge of any suspects. I think the judgement just reflected the circumstances of the murder, as are publicly known. Until there's an arrest(s), anything is possible, so it's within the family's right to request the files be sealed.

Another opinion: the children aren't afraid of the murderers so much as of the media releasing more gossip about their parents.

 

[JDG]

I suppose one needs to 'wonder' who would remove it from the home/wherever it was kept?

Were they aware of the contents of the will?

Why hasn't the lawyer come forward with a copy? Just wondering.

 

[dotr]

Ann Brocklehurst (@AnnB03) | Twitter

 

[Satchie]

Wouldn’t it be such sweet irony if honey did in fact have a Will, and her Will named the winter siblings as her beneficiaries? Omg..........

Yes, that would be the plot of a good mystery novel. Then the story about the children claiming they couldn't find the will would become much more meaningful.

 

[JDG]

Personally, I don't think the judge has knowledge of any suspects. I think the judgement just reflected the circumstances of the murder, as are publicly known. Until there's an arrest(s), anything is possible, so it's within the family's right to request the files be sealed.

Another opinion: the children aren't afraid of the murderers so much as of the media releasing more gossip about their parents.

I believe their own security IS an issue. Right after the murders, they became a very closed group and Jonathan apologized during the funeral about turning away friends, they didnt know who they could trust etc.
It was in MSM that they had increased their own security and privacy due to the murders. There was a fear that the 'killing' was not finished.

I can certainly see why billionaires do not want their full names and addresses to be public information. Esp. after a double murder of their parents.

 

[MistyWaters]

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star
“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,”Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman.”.....

.......(In an email interview this week, Youdan said he was referring in court only “to the facts as known in the public sphere.” He said he was not revealing details about the order of death, the status of wills, or whether or not an individual had a will. He did not elaborate.)

****

Although it might be easy to read into the above Star report that Honey has no Will, where does it say that?

How does that prove Honey didn’t complete a LAST Will and Testiment —- because Youdan doesn’t know??? If he doesn’t know, wouldn’t that suggest it was more than likely completed by another attourney....and he doesn’t know? Nor do we know the outcome of his filing, or of another lawyer stepped forward who was more recently handled Shermans Estate business because he’s not saying. It’s not as if Estate lawyers are paid to wait and standby, just in case....

We don’t even know if Yoedan is involved in the sealed Sherman Estate business. Maybe he only hoped to be because at some time in the past he’d prepared Barry’s will. But anyone can have any attourney prepare a new will at any time, which revokes all other Wills prepared in the past. It’s far more likely that both of the Shermans had multiple wills drawn up as decades passed by, than no Will.

Something I’ve noticed about Donovan, he titles his attention-getting stories as if he’s reporting factual information but he often falls short on supporting content.

 

[Satchie]

I don't know, noticing this in particular:

"To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman.”.....

By July, they should have found a will if there was one. An outside lawyer would have contacted the family to inform them, if it was in his/her possession. I can't see the estate lawyer filing for this special type of permission unless it was absolutely necessary. Yes, it was remotely possible the will could turn up accidently filed somewhere, but IMO they'd probably looked quite hard for it.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know, noticing this in particular:



By July, they should have found a will if there was one. An outside lawyer would have contacted the family to inform them, if it was in his/her possession. I can't see the estate lawyer filing for this special type of permission unless it was absolutely necessary. Yes, it was remotely possible the will could turn up accidently filed somewhere, but IMO they'd probably looked quite hard for it.

What I’m wondering is how this particular lawyer would ever know if more recent Wills had been had been found, if Shermans had more recently conducted Estate business with a different attourney. If so, he’d not become the Sherman Estate Attourney after their deaths, another Estate Lawyer would proceed to finalize the estate, under seal and then he’d be excluded entirely. Particularly why I question it is because he stated he doesn’t know. How can an Estate Lawyer not know, if who he’s planning to conduct Estate business on behalf of, has a Will or not?

There are too many missing details to know one way or another and the story is almost six months old. But considering the size of the Estate, I’d imagine any lawyer having done any piece of Sherman estate business in the past would be hopeful they were also the most recent Sherman Estate Lawyer.

 

[Satchie]

What I’m wondering is how this particular lawyer would ever know if more recent Wills had been had been found, if Shermans had more recently conducted Estate business with a different attourney. If so, he’d not become the Sherman Estate Attourney after their deaths, another Estate Lawyer would proceed to finalize the estate, under seal and then he’d be excluded entirely. Particularly why I question it is because he stated he doesn’t know. How can an Estate Lawyer not know, if who he’s planning to conduct Estate business on behalf of, has a Will or not?

There are too many missing details to know one way or another and the story is almost six months old. But considering the size of the Estate, I’d imagine any lawyer having done any piece of Sherman estate business in the past would be hopeful they were also the most recent Sherman Estate Lawyer.

I agree those comments about him not knowing about a will, or beneficiaries, should have been quoted in the context of whatever his legal argument was, and not highlighted on their own.

But the article identifies him as being the estate lawyer, hired by the family to do this legal work. It was his job to file the legal documents, including Barry's will, so that the trustees could be officially authorized to start the process of settling the estates .

It's up to the next of kin to find the valid will. Because it's such a high profile case, if a law firm knew they had it, they would have contacted the children and given it to their lawyer. The lawyer would decide which was the latest will and destroy any earlier versions.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree those comments about him not knowing about a will, or beneficiaries, should have been quoted in the context of whatever his legal argument was, and not highlighted on their own.

But the article identifies him as being the estate lawyer, hired by the family to do this legal work. It was his job to file the legal documents, including Barry's will, so that the trustees could be officially authorized to start the process of settling the estates .

It's up to the next of kin to find the valid will. Because it's such a high profile case, if a law firm knew they had it, they would have contacted the children and given it to their lawyer. The lawyer would decide which was the latest will and destroy any earlier versions.

I’m not so sure Youman was retained by the children, Donovan doesn’t outrightly say that. In fact he says very little, why these types of vague news reports lead to all sorts of conjecture and speculation.

The date of June 26, 2009 in this court transcript below is obviously incorrect. I don’t know, maybe just the year is wrong and it’s supposed to be June 26, 2018, but it says this and BBM.

On June 26, 2009, applications the issuance of a Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee were made to this court. While such applications are customarily made “over the counter” and dealt with in writing by a duty judge presiding over our Estates List, the applicants sought an oral hearing in order to request an order sealing the court file before filing their application.
CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

If the order to seal was made even prior to filing of the Trustee appointment in June, why would Youman attend a hearing in July, unsure if Honey had a Will or not, with any details of what he said made public? Regardless, it seems the family proceeded in such a way that nothing was publicly disclosed, and why I question if Youman was directly involved at all.

 

[human]

Wouldn’t it be such sweet irony if honey did in fact have a Will, and her Will named the winter siblings as her beneficiaries? Omg..........

Since Honey was into philanthropy, I doubt if she would want her money wasted

 

[MistyWaters]

And this. Quite frankly, IMO it’s tabloid-style reporting. Anonymous sources, anonymous subject and purpose of claim, anonymous amount, no comment, no information whatsoever. Surely this can’t be what we’ve come to consider as “news”? He may as well just left a lot of blanks, giving the reader the option to fill it in using their imagination.

“Further complicating the estate situation is that, soon after the deaths, at least one person claimed to be due a sizable payout that was allegedly promised by Honey, according to sources close to the Sherman family. The Star is not identifying this person, who could not immediately be reached for comment.”
Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, that would be the plot of a good mystery novel. Then the story about the children claiming they couldn't find the will would become much more meaningful.

The mother of the 4 Winter siblings did have a LW and it didn't get carried out in full. Now the (next) deceased mother of 4 siblings, wife of the Winter opponent BS, allegedly has no LW? Macabre, somehow. IMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Barry and Honey Sherman: A legacy of giving

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I suppose one needs to 'wonder' who would remove it from the home/wherever it was kept?

Were they aware of the contents of the will?

Why hasn't the lawyer come forward with a copy? Just wondering.

I only remember to have read, that the Shermans put value on a large shredder. Although in their future home, but ...... thinking.