Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    An inquest wasn’t called, why?

    How about because the circumstances didn’t meet the criteria because the coroner determined the manner of deaths was double homicide, entirely within the scope of their responsibility.

    *****
    When is an Inquest called?
    Mandatory inquests are held when:

    • a death occurs on the job at a construction site, mine, pit or quarry
    • a death occurs while a person is in custody or being detained (unless, in some circumstances, a death investigation determines the death occurred from natural causes in which case the inquest is discretionary)
      • a death occurs due to an injury sustained or other event that occurred in custody, or when the use of force of a police officer, special constable, auxiliary member of a police force or First Nations Constable is the cause of death
    • a death of a child is a result of a criminal act of a person who has custody of the child, if certain circumstances are met
    • a death of a person occurs while being physically restrained and detained in a psychiatric facility, hospital, or secure treatment program.
    Discretionary inquests may be held when:

    • the coroner determines that enough information is known from death investigation to support an inquest
    • the coroner decides that it is desirable for the public to have an open and full hearing of the circumstance of a death
    • if the coroner believes a jury could make useful recommendations to prevent further deaths
    A relative of a deceased may request an inquest by submitting a request in writing to the investigating coroner. The request will be presented to the Regional Supervising Coroners management team to determine whether an inquest should be conducted.

    There is no time limit between the date of death and the convening of an inquest.

    An inquest is NOT an adversarial process. It is also neither a trial, nor a process for discovery. It is not a royal commission, a campaign or crusade directed by personal or philosophical agendas. An inquest is an inquisitorial process designed to focus public attention on the circumstances of a death. It is to be a dispassionate public examination into the facts and all participants have a responsibility to conduct themselves with dignity and respect. Appropriate behaviour, dress, and demeanour will be expected of participants, the media, and others attending an inquest.
    Inquests | Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services
     
  2. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    More on inquests.

    BBM

    Message from the Chief Coroner
    Historically, coroner’s inquests are one part of the Office of the Chief Coroner’s work that resonates most with the public, likely because they are held in the public realm and are an opportunity to learn more about the circumstances of death with an intention to prevent similar deaths in the future. There have been many inquest recommendations over the years that have resulted in social change to advance public safety such as road safety and how police and the courts handle incidents of domestic violence. While there is a strong case for the benefits of inquests, there are also a number of other ways that death investigations can yield public safety recommendations. The Office of the Chief Coroner also has death review committees that look at specific types of deaths and like inquests, may provide recommendations to governments, agencies and others. Sometimes, recommendations may stem from death investigations themselves if during the course of an investigation it is clear that steps can be taken to help avoid future deaths.
    Report on 2015 Inquests | Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services
     
  3. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Couple of points:
    i)that retired homicide detective has some *pretty* loose lips, eh? Wow!
    ii)why would one even *think* that an MSM would even consider publishing what was said by some retired homicide detective at a Christmas party to some unknown person who told someone with a vendetta against the victims, which someone would like the world to know because it might forward his narrative? Is that like 4th hand rumor?
    iii)man, sometimes I guess I should thank my lucky stars that I'm not wealthy enough to have to worry about who knows who, and who's got loose lips, when it comes to the hiring of personal services! Being a private person would seem to beg not bothering to partake of personal services at all, since one can never trust who is really providing them.
    iv)if in fact it is common knowledge that the Shermans' security system was operating yet didn't show anyone entering or exiting aside from B & H on that fateful night, is it still not possible that a perp could have been hiding and ambushed one of the victims while entering, which would still therefore only show the one entry?
    v)we were told by TPS after a few short hours at the scene of the crime that there was no forced entry evident, however TPS has not updated us as to whether or not that 'fact' may have changed upon discovering something a little further along in their investigation.
    vi)aren't inquests held when there is more opportunity to learn lessons so that the public can be better protected in future.. and not so much for a targeted crime against one of Canada's wealthiest couples?
    vii)if B had an explosive temper, why have we not heard reports about this from many out of the woodwork over the past year? Oh wait, is it because all of *those* people have been silenced as well?
    viii)may I ask, how on earth you can state that: "there hasn’t been a single shred of evidence by the TPS or Greenspin to suggest a targeted double murder"? If I'm not mistaken, you are not listed on the TPS's 'need to know' list, but I guess I could be wrong.
    ix)I wouldn't worry too much about your reporter friend who puts his own finances above his integrity, because there are a couple of other very high profile press members who are watching TPS's every move, and who don't seem afraid to shine a light on corruption, if they find some. ("He totally believes there’s a cover-up, but cannot run a story questioning the integrity of the TPS....his contacts within the force will completely dry up and the threat of losing his job.")
    x)it must be a relief to have such meaningful assurance that at that early date at least, you were not considered a suspect.
    jmo.
     
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  4. Tighthead

    Tighthead Active Member

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    I would like to hear a reasonable argument as to why this case merits an inquest. It doesn’t even approach the statutory criteria.
     
  5. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that “loose lipped” retired detective.... It surprises me when anything a police detective privately says to others is viewed as the gospel truth. Even more so, a retired police detective who is no longer bound by an employer’s code of ethics would still be well practised in the art of deception, if he or she had reason to.

    Can The Police Lie To Me? | The Defence Group
    “Yes, they can.”
     
  6. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Why isn't the retired homicide detective named?

    I don't believe one word of it. No wonder the papers aren't printing it.
     
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  7. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    It all boils down to proving your claims.

    The rules about hearsay in the legal system are similarly used in reputable media outlets.

    Reputable media outlets have to fact-check, verify and substantiate the claims made by people they quote in a story. Liability and their reputation is on the line.

    Aside from everything you wrote, just isolate one point you made about the alarm system:

    - how do you know it to be true?
    - Name your source so we can independently verify what they may have said.
    -What alarm company did they use?
    -Provide the official report from the alarm company, verified by their representatives.
    -Was the alarm system fully functional and armed?
    - When was the system last checked and updated?
    -Did both Honey and Barry Sherman use the system religiously and correctly? Did everyone using the system follow suit?
    -List all of the people who had access to the Sherman home and who had knowledge of the alarm system.
    -List all of the realtors and people who viewed the home.
    -How was the alarm system managed during showings and the open house?
    -Show us the raw data and an analysis of the Sherman alarm system in use from January, 2017-January, 2018....

    All of the above and many more details, in order for a MSN source to print your claims, would have hold up under legal scrutiny.

    ETA: Too long, didn’t read: You can tell the media the moon is made of cheese, but they can’t just broadcast that without proof, or without validating your claims.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  8. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    My belief from following this case is that a major coverup has occurred.

    To collect the life insurance on either parent, the cause of death must follow certain criteria. These parents were more than likely insured for major bucks! Being who the adult children are, Sherman’s, they wield power and can pull strings that none of us could.

    The true cause of Barry and Honey’s deaths will never be known IMO. Money buys many things!
     
  9. Kerry Winter

    Kerry Winter Verified Family - Barry and Honey Sherman

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    I don’t have to prove my integrity. I’ve been more than transparent. You can all call me mentally ill, the main suspect, a liar, etc. This will be my final post:


    The FACT is: the Chief Coroner Dirk Huyer never called for a full blown inquest into the Shermans death.
    As soon as it was labeled “suspicious” and 6 weeks went by with a reversal to murder: he should have called the inquest.
    The BIG question is WHY was it never called. This fact cannot be overlooked nor minimized. I believe once ALL the evidence would have been considered by the 5 panel jury: a ruling of M/S would have been the verdict. Case closed.
    The powers that be prevented the inquest. Here lies the cover-up orchestrated by the Sherman family, Greenspin and Tommy-boy Klatt. They ran interference with M. Campbell at Businessweek for only one reason!
    Look: the arrests are imminent....just around the corner! LMAO.
    Bye-bye.....been a slice.
     
  10. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Please keep posting, just one slice is not enough!
    [​IMG]
    Pizza Slice GIF - Pizza Slice Mozzarella - Discover & Share GIFs
     
  11. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    The story that you’re not telling is the most compelling: the story of your late parents, what they achieved, the tremendous tragedy that unfolded with their deaths leaving you orphaned and the paths you and your brothers took in life, your adoptive parents...

    I wish you’d work with a good author and tell that story.
     
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  12. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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  13. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    The issue of credibility centers on the source of the information given by the retired homicide detective. At best, it came from a high ranking officer involved in the case, and at worse, it is second or third hand gossip. That's why it has to be verified/confirmed by a credible source before it can be generally accepted as the truth. There is no other way to slice it. (did I just say that.. groan) haha
     
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  14. Tighthead

    Tighthead Active Member

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    Combined net worth of about $4 billion and you think there is life insurance fraud going on?

    They may not have even had life insurance. It’s hardly necessary. Why are you certain they did?
     
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  15. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I use to think very wealthy people didn't buy life insurance. Apparently they do for various reasons, and mainly due to the tax free benefit of large paid claims.
     
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  16. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    If they were both murdered, it would pay out.

    If BS committed suicide, it may/may not pay out for him but HS is still a murder victim.

    With all due respect, I doubt life insurance had anything to do with it.

    Don't be quick to call everyone in the periphery 'crooked' which is what your post is implying. Not everyone is willing to be 'bought' or risk their reputations.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  17. Tighthead

    Tighthead Active Member

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    Those aren’t indemnity policies. They are investment products.

    Again, with an estate of this size, do you think insurance fraud is likely?
     
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  18. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I was responding to your statement that it was "hardly necessary" for the Shermans to have life insurance. Wealthy people carry life insurance due to the tax free status of death benefits. I don't understand your point about indemnity policies.

    And no, I don't think insurance fraud is likely.
     
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  19. Tighthead

    Tighthead Active Member

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    Because those policies have cash value regardless, unlike an indemnity policy. They are not windfalls. So the alleged fraud wouldn’t really apply. Don’t you agree?

    Explain to me in detail why you think it is necessary? Don’t you think that with their net worth and age, the Shermans should have significant tax-sheltered or after tax liquid assets and cash?
     
  20. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that it was necessary. I don't know if the Shermans carried life insurance. I am not an expert on estate planning. I don't know the Sherman's liquid asset and cash position.

    The following statement from the Forbes article " Life Insurance for Billionaires" is one reason a billionaire might carry life insurance.
    "One area that has captured the interest of the exceptionally wealthy is the use of life insurance policies to help pay the estate taxes."

    Life Insurance For Billionaires

    Why the Wealthy Should Buy Lots of Life Insurance

    https://www.stettlerindependent.com/local-business/why-wealthy-people-buy-life-insurance/
     
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