Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[dotr]

Thinking of the peculiar 911 apparently made from a neighbour's home, but when LE arrived it turned out that nobody there did in fact call.
May 20 2019
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
Police investigated a 911 call on the Sherman’s street when the couple lay dead or dying, neighbours say. A security camera also captured a car pulling up and a man approaching the house three times

 

[ldlager]

Well, in at least one article he seems to have said that he found out about the deaths through social media, something the family criticized police for in the early days of the investigation, so something is very odd about this information. Like thats a surprise lol.

One has to wonder why, after calling Schecthman and JS, it still took 90 minutes for cops to arrive? Is it possible that family members visited the house prior to police involvement? Is it possible that items were removed or staged prior to police involvement?

Yes it appears that is possible, I have speculated and posted about this before.

 

[deugirtni]

Wouldn't THAT be terrible if someone known to the family screwed with the scene?

ETA: I mean, after the bodies were found. I think that would be known by now though, because too many people saw the bodies initially: Stern, the potential homebuyer couple and their male realtor, the cleaning lady - surely someone would have cracked and spilled by now. imo.

 

[ldlager]

Wouldn't THAT be terrible if someone known to the family screwed with the scene?

ETA: I mean, after the bodies were found. I think that would be known by now though, because too many people saw the bodies initially: Stern, the potential homebuyer couple and their male realtor, the cleaning lady - surely someone would have cracked and spilled by now. imo.

As ridiculous as it seems, I do believe based on the info we have it was 90 minutes between the time of the discovery of the bodies, and the time the police arrived. IIRC, the police arrived fairly promptly after receiving the call, they have the time of receipt logged. The delay occurred because, incredibly, and for some specific reason IMO, no one called 911.
In the meantime, as I have speculated before, how would the realtor or the cleaning lady know for sure that they were both dead, without going right up to the bodies? That in and of itself could have compromised the crime scene. And I bet they didnt get that close- who would have the guts to do that, certainly not me. So how did they know they weren't still alive, breathing? Shouldn't 911 have been called immediately????

 

[deugirtni]

As ridiculous as it seems, I do believe based on the info we have it was 90 minutes between the time of the discovery of the bodies, and the time the police arrived. IIRC, the police arrived fairly promptly after receiving the call, they have the time of receipt logged. The delay occurred because, incredibly, and for some specific reason IMO, no one called 911.
In the meantime, as I have speculated before, how would the realtor or the cleaning lady know for sure that they were both dead, without going right up to the bodies? That in and of itself could have compromised the crime scene. And I bet they didnt get that close- who would have the guts to do that, certainly not me. So how did they know they weren't still alive, breathing? Shouldn't 911 have been called immediately????

Yes... unless of course, they were not as they were said to have been and it was blatantly obvious from the doorway? They couldn't possibly have known for SURE.

 

[deugirtni]

Wouldn't THAT be terrible if someone known to the family screwed with the scene?

ETA: I mean, after the bodies were found. I think that would be known by now though, because too many people saw the bodies initially: Stern, the potential homebuyer couple and their male realtor, the cleaning lady - surely someone would have cracked and spilled by now. imo.

As ridiculous as it seems, I do believe based on the info we have it was 90 minutes between the time of the discovery of the bodies, and the time the police arrived. IIRC, the police arrived fairly promptly after receiving the call, they have the time of receipt logged. The delay occurred because, incredibly, and for some specific reason IMO, no one called 911.
In the meantime, as I have speculated before, how would the realtor or the cleaning lady know for sure that they were both dead, without going right up to the bodies? That in and of itself could have compromised the crime scene. And I bet they didnt get that close- who would have the guts to do that, certainly not me. So how did they know they weren't still alive, breathing? Shouldn't 911 have been called immediately????

Yes... unless of course, they were not as they were said to have been and it was blatantly obvious from the doorway? They couldn't possibly have known for SURE.

IIRC, the description given in MSM by the male Asian realtor was NOT the same as how the scene had been described by others in MSM prior to that.

 

[deugirtni]

Thinking of the peculiar 911 apparently made from a neighbour's home, but when LE arrived it turned out that nobody there did in fact call.
May 20 2019
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
Police investigated a 911 call on the Sherman’s street when the couple lay dead or dying, neighbours say. A security camera also captured a car pulling up and a man approaching the house three times

Wonder if the killer(s) initially took H's cellphone with them, then when the bodies went undiscovered overnight, they made a call from her phone while on the street near the neighbour's house.. then re-entered the home and placed it on the floor in the main floor powder-room... obviously the door must've been unlocked at that time, since the other fellow in the car was seen entering the home a few times?

 

[ldlager]

Wonder if the killer(s) initially took H's cellphone with them, then when the bodies went undiscovered overnight, they made a call from her phone while on the street near the neighbour's house.. then re-entered the home and placed it on the floor in the main floor powder-room... obviously the door must've been unlocked at that time, since the other fellow in the car was seen entering the home a few times?

That seems unlikely to me, I doubt the killers returned. Also, IIRC it was uncertain that the fellow that visited on Thursday ever entered the house

 

[ldlager]

IIRC, the description given in MSM by the male Asian realtor was NOT the same as how the scene had been described by others in MSM prior to that.

Deugirtni,
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank
Toronto real estate agent reveals new details in killings of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman
The articles above set out what the realtor says he and his (buyer) clients saw. He states"...[The bodies] were on the steps leading to the pool.” He even described it in both Mandarin and English so there would be no misinterpretation.
MSM has reported the bodies were suspended by belts attached to the railing. Not on the pool steps.
I know this was discussed before. But as these are clearly contradictory accounts, I presume LE has conducted interviews to determine that either 1) the realtor and his clients were mistaken; or 2) that the bodies were in fact on the steps when found by first responders; or 3) that someone moved the bodies to the railing after the realtor saw them.

So many inconsistencies in this case!!!!

 

[WINDSOR]

If that were the case, do you not think that TPS wouldn't have plastered images or composite images of these people everywhere? That would be a major clue. My guess is these people were accounted for very quickly and they checked out.

The fact the TPS have not plastered their images of these two 'odd ducks' everywhere could be a function of a number of factors.
a) As you state the 'odd ducks' were accounted for very quickly and they checked out.
b) The TPS know after reviewing cameras at the airport, these two left the country, no need to plaster their images anywhere, they are gone.
c) The odd ducks were dressed in professional disguises when meeting the realtor at the Sherman home before the murders took place. Any descriptions and subsequent images would be useless.
d) Even if they were not in disguises, the ability of one person (the realtor) to effectively focus on the appearance of the 'odd-ducks' and provide a meaningful description is very low. Remember the realtor was focused on showing the home that was for sale not on making a mental note of the clients' appearances.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Re: the ‘odd ducks’. Wouldn’t they have to have their own agent with them? Or one duck is an agent?

Their agent has to present their real estate credentials in order to book the appointment. (Just from what I’ve noticed as a purchaser.)

 

[ldlager]

Re: the ‘odd ducks’. Wouldn’t they have to have their own agent with them? Or one duck is an agent?

Their agent has to present their real estate credentials in order to book the appointment. (Just from what I’ve noticed as a purchaser.)

Could the ducks just call Gottlieb and say they are interested in seeing the house? Would she have asked them for ID or credentials? I would have thought that her mentioning the ducks wouldn’t even be in the book if she had confirmed who they were ahead of time. But because it’s mentioned, I get the feeling she didn’t know who they were.
I know some realtors that jump at the chance to represent both the seller and the buyer, and get all the commission. Which on a $6 million house was probably close to $300,000.

 

[ldlager]

Sorry to quote myself.. but wow.. if there is any truth to this spat amongst family members, and it happened THAT quickly, and we know there was someone saying that H had said it would be in her Will that she'd leave her money, AND the Will was missing at some point.. that is just disgusting, imo. Who is going to squabble about a few million when there are BILLIONS? Obviously H and M were very close. And after hearing about that, I find it really sus that the Will would go missing too, imo.

I think I recall that honeys sister claimed that honey had promised to give her a whack of money (10 million?). But my impression was that this was a verbal promise (if it was made at all). I don’t recall it being claimed that this was part of honeys will, to the best of my recollection.

 

[nuff]

Have to wonder what it was about the ducks that the realtor thought was "odd." I'm assuming, given the area and house, there would be a lot of interest from offshore buyers, and guessing the ducks were among them.

If nothing else, the book sample has revived this thread, which had descended into the interminable MS/MM debate. Only 10 pages, but lots more fruit for speculation.

 

[dotr]

I think I recall that honeys sister claimed that honey had promised to give her a whack of money (10 million?). But my impression was that this was a verbal promise (if it was made at all). I don’t recall it being claimed that this was part of honeys will, to the best of my recollection.

Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or ...
Jun 22, 2019 - In the year before he was murdered, Barry Sherman was working on plans to give large amounts of money to charity and his wife, Honey, who ... Honey had on the go with her sister Mary Shechtman, who was also her ... say Shechtman told the Sherman children that Honey had promised her $300 million.

 

[dotr]

That seems unlikely to me, I doubt the killers returned. Also, IIRC it was uncertain that the fellow that visited on Thursday ever entered the house

Mar 24, 2019
29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
rbbm.
"While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Thursday, Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appears to enter the Sherman house through the front door, then comes back outside. He does this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off."

 

[ldlager]

Mar 24, 2019
29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
rbbm.
"While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Thursday, Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appears to enter the Sherman house through the front door, then comes back outside. He does this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off."

Thanks for correcting my foggy memory Dotr!

 

[Kittybunny]

Mar 24, 2019
29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
rbbm.
"While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Thursday, Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appears to enter the Sherman house through the front door, then comes back outside. He does this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off."

Wow! This is crazy. The tight-lippedness of the police is so frustrating! Who was this guy? Was he cleared? Why was he there?

There seems to be an incredible amount of leads and evidence and yet, here we are close to 2 years later and the silence is deafening.

 

[ldlager]

Wow! This is crazy. The tight-lippedness of the police is so frustrating! Who was this guy? Was he cleared? Why was he there?

There seems to be an incredible amount of leads and evidence and yet, here we are close to 2 years later and the silence is deafening.

I have a feeling people will be asking many more questions regarding the actions/inactions of LE, and questions around evidence once the book is published.

 

[dotr]

Wow! This is crazy. The tight-lippedness of the police is so frustrating! Who was this guy? Was he cleared? Why was he there?

There seems to be an incredible amount of leads and evidence and yet, here we are close to 2 years later and the silence is deafening.

March 14 2019
A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca
rbbm.
"In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.

The fluke disclosure is a reminder that the Toronto Police Service has more evidence than the public knows—and also that the police don’t share evidence with the public."