CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[Lonicera]

We have discussed these many times here on this thread and unfortunately, we can't pinpoint anything.
Every scenario you have just mentioned is all a possibility.
Personally, I have narrowed it down to 2 things, 1. Big pharm is involved. or 2. A very close relative. All JMO.

Edit: I don't think a past affair is on the radar, no mention of this ever at all, iirc....and I doubt it's a religious reason. JMO

Personally, 1) someone held a grudge for the Sherman's past actions 2) a very close relative . JMO

 

[casesensitive]

We need to nail down a motive.
- disgruntled employee
- someone to whom Barry owed money
- someone held a grudge for the Sherman's past actions
- religious reasons
- a past affair came to light

My mind is boggling. Why the staging? Why the pool? Why the belts? How many perps involved........

-disgruntled employee ( Why kill Honey)

-someone to whom Barry owed money (Although most people owed Barry money, his connections with undesirables could have resulted in him reneging on a deal. Depending on who he was dealing with, that could have resulted in the horrific murders)

-someone held a grudge for Sherman's past actions (I think that a person who had a beef from the past would not be so enraged years later to have the passion to kill both of them. And if they did, they would have fled the scene immediately)

-religious reasons ( Certainly hate crimes against Jews are sadly escalating, but I haven't found one case where Jews were violently killed in their home)

-a past affair came to light (there is no evidence)

Other motives could be a greed inspired sense of self entitlement, big Pharma cut throat competition, BS's wins in court that financially devastated the suers.

What we know from the second autopsy findings is that they were killed before they were strung up at the pool by belts. So what killer, or hired killer would take the extra time to drag their dead bodies along the narrow space at the side of the pool, and tie their necks up by belts to the rail, which wasn't easy to do in the small space between the rail and wall. I think this staging eliminates most people who may have had a motive to kill them.

 

[FromGermany1]

Hello , I had imagined the following scenario:
a building contractor who would have been ruined by the Shermans. He knows the couple well, he knows the house well. When he finds out they’re selling their house, that may be what triggers his revenge.

But even if the children have left documents from their parents abandoned, it is really shocking. In my family, we take care of our deceased.

bbm
^^ This!

It would even make sense, to emphasize the stinginess of the pair, because that might have been also a cause for the many complaints re the building. On the other hand: the 2 cheap belts and the sculpture made of trash, if mimicked, certainly is more private knowledge than knowledge of an outsider.

 

[Lonicera]

One may also wonder why the killer chose to reproduce a hanging scene . Any way to indicate that the victims deserved this kind of punishment reserved for traitors, thieves, murderers or regicides? Death by hanging has always been a sign of infamy. During this ritualized staging, victims lose their dignity forever: they become the criminals who should be rejected, without possibility of rehabilitation.

A way to kill the couple a second time: strangled and then hung . , the killer seems to tell us: look at them, they are guilty, here is the punishment they deserved . For centuries, the punishment by hanging was synonymous with dishonour and only the nobles could avoid it.

 

[WINDSOR]

We need to nail down a motive.
- disgruntled employee
- someone to whom Barry owed money
- someone held a grudge for the Sherman's past actions
- religious reasons
- a past affair came to light

My mind is boggling. Why the staging? Why the pool? Why the belts? How many perps involved........

Knowledge of the motive is not required to solve this case. Many murderers are caught and convicted without a specific known motive. Knowing the motive can be helpful, but not at all required.


Of course the mind boggles with so many possible motives that you have listed, but what about MONEY, POWER and CONTROL? In my scenario these fit the crime quite well.

Why the staging? Why the pool? Why the belts?..... Control and Power. In the end the Shermans had no control or power, somebody else did.

With the death of the Shermans, who gained money, power and control?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

One may also wonder why the killer chose to reproduce a hanging scene . Any way to indicate that the victims deserved this kind of punishment reserved for traitors, thieves, murderers or regicides? Death by hanging has always been a sign of infamy. During this ritualized staging, victims lose their dignity forever: they become the criminals who should be rejected, without possibility of rehabilitation.

A way to kill the couple a second time: strangled and then hung . , the killer seems to tell us: look at them, they are guilty, here is the punishment they deserved . For centuries, the punishment by hanging was synonymous with dishonour and only the nobles could avoid it.

Interesting. Thank you.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The pool was rarely used. From wiki

An autopsy later revealed that the cause of death for both Barry and Honey was ligature neck compression. The housekeeper told police that Honey, who has problems with her knees, rarely went to the basement and another witness interviewed by investigators said the couple's pool was rarely used.

 

[newclues]

Hello , I had imagined the following scenario:
a building contractor who would have been ruined by the Shermans. He knows the couple well, he knows the house well. When he finds out they’re selling their house, that may be what triggers his revenge.

But even if the children have left documents from their parents abandoned, it is really shocking. In my family, we take care of our deceased.

Here's an interesting link: Dedication — CHSM

 

[ldlager]

-disgruntled employee ( Why kill Honey)

-someone to whom Barry owed money (Although most people owed Barry money, his connections with undesirables could have resulted in him reneging on a deal. Depending on who he was dealing with, that could have resulted in the horrific murders)

-someone held a grudge for Sherman's past actions (I think that a person who had a beef from the past would not be so enraged years later to have the passion to kill both of them. And if they did, they would have fled the scene immediately)

-religious reasons ( Certainly hate crimes against Jews are sadly escalating, but I haven't found one case where Jews were violently killed in their home)

-a past affair came to light (there is no evidence)

Other motives could be a greed inspired sense of self entitlement, big Pharma cut throat competition, BS's wins in court that financially devastated the suers.

What we know from the second autopsy findings is that they were killed before they were strung up at the pool by belts. So what killer, or hired killer would take the extra time to drag their dead bodies along the narrow space at the side of the pool, and tie their necks up by belts to the rail, which wasn't easy to do in the small space between the rail and wall. I think this staging eliminates most people who may have had a motive to kill them.

I do not believe that it has been revealed that the autopsy results indicate they were strangled before being suspended by the belts. it has been reported that They were strangled with something other than the belts. But AFAiK it is possible that they were strangled with something else AFTER they had been attached to the railing with the belts.

 

[deugirtni]

I do not believe that it has been revealed that the autopsy results indicate they were strangled before being suspended by the belts. it has been reported that They were strangled with something other than the belts. But AFAiK it is possible that they were strangled with something else AFTER they had been attached to the railing with the belts.

To me that seems logistically very unlikely. The other neck marking(s?) was found under the belt, IIRC, so that would mean.. hang them/one, loosen the belt or move it or remove it to strangle with the thinner ligature, then the belt goes back into place,... all at the edge of the pool with not much room between the railing and wall.... not to mention getting each of them there to that spot in the first place while alive. And no defensive wounds, apparently(?)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Were they both fully alert during the killings? No drugs, no sedation to keep them quiet?

 

[FromGermany1]

The pool was rarely used. From wiki

An autopsy later revealed that the cause of death for both Barry and Honey was ligature neck compression. The housekeeper told police that Honey, who has problems with her knees, rarely went to the basement and another witness interviewed by investigators said the couple's pool was rarely used.

It makes no sense for HS not going to the basement, if her office and desk was exactly there. IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

It makes no sense for HS not going to the basement, if her office and desk was exactly there. IMO

I haven’t read the book so please forgive my ignorance. Was her office located in the basement?

 

[FromGermany1]

I haven’t read the book so please forgive my ignorance. Was her office located in the basement?

This knowledge is from a newspaper article, I think. A reporter (his father acquaintanced with BS?) visited BS' home and detailed portrayed HS/BS/ the home.
The interview begins with Barry standing in the kitchen in the morning reading newspapers, Honey not yet in sight, and Barry asks the reporter, what he would want.

 

[Window21]

https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

This is a layout of the Sherman house. I don't see an office on the floor of the pool.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

This is a layout of the Sherman house. I don't see an office on the floor of the pool.

Thanks a lot. I also don't see anything like her office down there. I for one, would never want an office in the basement. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

It makes no sense for HS not going to the basement, if her office and desk was exactly there. IMO

I remember what you are talking about. But as Window21 noted, it appears Honey's office was not on the basement level anyway (why had we thought it was?)

The housekeeper told police that Honey, who has problems with her knees, rarely went to the basement and another witness interviewed by investigators said the couple’s pool was rarely used.
It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

 

[FromGermany1]

I remember what you are talking about. But as Window21 noted, it appears Honey's office was not on the basement level anyway (why had we thought it was?)

The housekeeper told police that Honey, who has problems with her knees, rarely went to the basement and another witness interviewed by investigators said the couple’s pool was rarely used.
It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

From July 2008, our feature on the life of Canada’s generic drug king

torontolife.com

She led me down a hall beside a glassed-in swimming pool. The house had an overstuffed 1980s look, with lots of leather, glossy stone floors and a spiral staircase. We sat across from each other in the den, close to her workstation piled high with papers.
-.-.-
This isn't quite the story, I meant before, but.
The article is from 2008. Maybe, when Honey's arthritis got worse after 2008, her office didn't stay in the basement? Idk, from when the article was, which I remember. Can't find it.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Perhaps thé Sherman’s were like the rest of us - if they needed a place to put old, outdated stuff just put it in the basement?

 

[deugirtni]

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

From July 2008, our feature on the life of Canada’s generic drug king

torontolife.com

She led me down a hall beside a glassed-in swimming pool. The house had an overstuffed 1980s look, with lots of leather, glossy stone floors and a spiral staircase. We sat across from each other in the den, close to her workstation piled high with papers.
-.-.-
This isn't quite the story, I meant before, but.
The article is from 2008. Maybe, when Honey's arthritis got worse after 2008, her office didn't stay in the basement? Idk, from when the article was, which I remember. Can't find it.

I wonder if she meant... she went on a tour at one point, and saw the pool... and then later they sat in a 'den' close to her 'workstation'? This is the upstairs floorplan (it's a PDF file that has to be opened), it shows H's office within the master bedroom suite, and across from a room that's called 'exercise room', but I believe we've seen sofas and a TV in there (to make it more of a 'den'?):