CANADA Canada - Donna Stearne & Wendy Tedford, both 17, Toronto, 26 Apr 1973

[dxman]

CrimeSolver:

Your previous questions I left unanswered:

(1) Potter/Kirk - I am quite sure DNA was mentioned, but there were no specifics, the detective seemed quite encouraged by the fact nonetheless when interviewed

(2) Will consider e-mailing blogwriter. Though, I wonder if she is still interested in matter. Late last year she seem to restart entries in her blog, but nothing as of the last 5 months.

 

[CrimeSolver]

dxman:
I used to watch Sgambati's "Crime Files: Cold Case Edition" on CLT (channel 72), but that channel doesn't broadcast it anymore and I don't get CourtTV. It's a good, unsensationalistic show, though I always felt it spent too much time on the static interview aspect and not enough on visual aids. I e-mailed Sgambati a couple of times, recommending a few cases, including, I think, this one. She was always courteous in replying. I will take a look at the website.

Thanks for your tip for P.O.T.P. I'll have to check with my local library. It would be a great resource to have at one's fingertips for free.

Potter/Kirk: DNA might prove useful even if the perp's DNA is not in a database. For one thing, based on chemical concentrations, it can pinpoint different regions of the world where he has spent parts of his life. Of course, if he's a lifetime local then that's of no use.

 

[dxman]

CrimeSolver.

Yes, you are correct. Sometimes a little static and more visual stuff would be nice. Also, Court TV is a specialty channel and it would be better if the program were on a more common channel. CITY-TV/CHUM was acquired by CTVglobemedia, so maybe a transition to other more widely watched channels will come. Bureaucracy, available $ and internal politics will probably dictate the situation... It would also be better if the program were about an hour long, with guests such as Haines and others of comparable calibre.

Perhaps, you might try contacting Ms. Sgmabati again. Considering the small segment that was aired on the Tedford-Stearne case a year or so ago, production might be a possibility. If you do, please advise

 

[CrimeSolver]

Many thanks for the tip about Pages of the Past, dxman. I finally got around to renewing my library card, and I have been spending some time looking up things in the database. The Globe and Mail also has a database one can access at the same portal. What amazing treasure troves of history! If I find out anything interesting about any of the cases I have posted here, I will add that. I am a bit concerned about breaching copyrights though, otherwise I would simply cut and paste articles.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that I emailed the Toronto homicide squad about a week ago suggesting it approach local media about airing an anniversary story. I also requested an investigating officer join us here at the forum. I have neither heard back (not even a pro forma response), nor, obviously, has anyone joined this discussion. Not a very impressive organization in terms of public relations.

 

[KarlK]

I also requested an investigating officer join us here at the forum. I have neither heard back (not even a pro forma response), nor, obviously, has anyone joined this discussion. Not a very impressive organization in terms of public relations.

Well put yourself in an active cop's shoes posting on a public forum about official business: he/she has to toe their department's line, which means they can't answer all questions and some they have to ignore completely. Doesn't take long before some other members become annoyed by such an attitude and before you know it accusations of cover-up start to fly, cop can't comment on those, situation deteriorates, posts vanish, people get banned, someone ends up in a mental institution, lawyers become involved, a Senate Committee is sworn in, sex scandals are uncovered, Governors are forced to resign, it can get pretty messed up

 

[CrimeSolver]

Well put yourself in an active cop's shoes posting on a public forum about official business: he/she has to toe their department's line, which means they can't answer all questions and some they have to ignore completely. Doesn't take long before some other members become annoyed by such an attitude and before you know it accusations of cover-up start to fly, cop can't comment on those, situation deteriorates, posts vanish, people get banned, someone ends up in a mental institution, lawyers become involved, a Senate Committee is sworn in, sex scandals are uncovered, Governors are forced to resign, it can get pretty messed up

Fully understood, but it has been 35 years. What possible advantage could there be to holding back evidence or hypotheses? Besides, a simple "Thank you for your interest, but we don't have the time to contact you individually or join a forum" would more than suffice for me.

 

[dxman]

Crimesolver:

You said: "I finally got around to renewing my library card, and I have been spending some time looking up things in the database. The Globe and Mail also has a database one can access at the same portal."..."I forgot to mention that I emailed the Toronto homicide ....I have neither heard back (not even a pro forma response),... Not a very impressive organization in terms of public relations."

All the articles on Tedford-Stearne are in both Star/Globe. You will find clarification on some issues, based on what you said in previous posts.

I agree that it would not be proper for a law enforcement person to get involved. Nevertheless, you are correct, not very good in public relations and do not expect to get any response. In my opinion, the call for more public interaction is lip service and a non sequitor. TPS has good public relations only on politically correct issues (i.e. see website homepage), to satisfy media elites, but this policy is likely enforced by top level bureaucrats and radicals on the police services board.

 

[CrimeSolver]

^^I perused all of the Star's articles regarding this case and didn't really find anything I hadn't heard beford, except for a witness account of a dark-coloured car seen pulling out of the crime scene at roughly five past midnight. That would have surely been the killer, and it's a shame the witness couldn't give a definitive identification of the car model and colour.
I found much more of interest in searching the database for articles re: the Kirk/Potter mystery (see thread).

As to the police department's public relations failings, I don't really care, as long as they take our advice to approach the media for some anniversary coverage of this case. I feel strongly that it might just shake something loose.

 

[dxman]

My apologies, Crimesolver. When I said “clarification” I was referring to a previous post that was entered by docwho3 (not you). He said:

“..just before the girls went missing from the diner it seems one article mentioned something about a young man coming in and buying 2 cokes and that sounds like someone buying something for his date and himself . . . or at least buying something for a 2nd person. If this was the killer and if his entering was the signal for the girls to exit the diner and meet at the car then the rest of the case makes more sense.”

This person was “M------- A---------” according to newspaper accounts. He read the papers the next day, saw the front page, and called police about seeing the victims the night before when he bought coffees (not cokes) at the Sit-N-Eat. He also mentioned seeing Donna at Downsview school, but they were not really friends, and seeing her in the school hallways, where she would blush when seeing him. I leave out his name for a reason. Previous post here by “Virtuoso” mentions same thing about going to school with Donna and passing her in hall, so it could him. So I leave anonymity.



Don't expect anything from TPS on anniversary. I am a bit of pessimist on such matters.

Will check your Kirk/Potter posts.

 

[CrimeSolver]

I do not recall having read that witness account before, even though I have gone over all the Star articles.

I believe the key to this case lies in Windsor. That's where the gun was stolen and that's where it was later found. The killer either lived there or passed through frequently. I do not believe it's related to local drug activity amongst youths.

 

[dxman]

Article in Star -- [FONT=&quot]Apr 30/73 , p3. Check POTP.

What is interesting is that, while he left the Sit-N-Eat to bring his coffees to his brother (at a nearby Becker's variety, where he stood outside speaking with a couple of friends), he swears, and was very insistent, that only a few minutes passed from when he first saw victims in restaurant to the time when he looked in from the outside -- and not seeing them there. If they left, it would have been very likely he would have seem them depart, but the time went so fast. First they were there, and then they were not. This is one big mystery of the case.

A solution: the girls didn't depart from the front door but went through the rear exit (which likely there is). Perhaps to score some weed as Linda Harris, Wendy's sister, did indicate that the girls might have been looking to get pot that night. The Sit-N-Eat had a kind of a shady reputation, but other articles (I think) said that it cleaned up its act at around the time of the murders. But then what:

OPTIONS/SEQUENCE:
(1) Met someone in restaurant (patron or owner) and left at rear.
(2) Was this meeting pre-arranged or on whim to check things out?
(3) Was the person(s) friend or stranger?
(4) How did they get to vacant lot? Walk, car. Taxi/bus can be ruled out
based on coffee guy claims. If walked, the area behind Sit-N-Eat is
adjacent to Downsview SS, where Donna attended (hence familiarity).

The rear departure seems the only reasonable option based on the claims
of "M------- A------------". Again refer to article.
[/FONT]

 

[dxman]

Couple of other things Crimesolver:

(1) If there are some points I mentioned that are not in the article,
perhaps I recall them from the blog entries by that crime-writing lady.
There are a few interesting things in there that I would like to relay,
but since blog is down, and she might use entries in her book, it
would be best to get her permission before posting.

(2) Windsor: Yes, it would seem a link, the gun was passed along, and finally ended there, but obviously cops have no hard evidence of link. Did killer sell gun to fellow criminal for cash? Or did someone steal if from killer... again another brick wall.

 

[CrimeSolver]

Thanks for pointing me to that article. It didn't come up in my search of the archives. The search function is imperfect because it is limited to a visual scan of the newspaper pages.

Since M.A. seems so insistent about not having seen them 5 minutes after he left the diner, maybe they did exit through the rear and go with someone in a car who drove either along Keele or through the back streets along Cuffley, Tilbury, Hawksdale, and Dubray. They almost certainly went voluntarily, but did they go because they thought they were scoring some weed or because someone offered them a ride? The whole dope angle might be a red herring, but what gives it some credence is that they weren't sexually assaulted.
The article also highlights some timeline discrepancies. M.A.'s sighting conflicts with that of a girl who said she saw the girls board a northbound Keele bus at Lawrence at about 10:45. M.A. asserts he saw them eating in the restaurant at that time. Also, a woman in the neighbourhood near the crime scene says she heard loud thumps around 11:00, whereas the Korenblum family, who live directly adjacent to the lot where the bodies were found, heard what they thought were gunshots at around midnight. What supports the latter is the witness who saw a car leaving the scene around 12:05 a.m. If they weren't killed until more than one hour after they were last seen, what were they doing in the interim? It is dismaying that the residents weren't curiouser about what was happening in their neighbourhood.

What strikes me as especially significant about Windsor are the two verifiable points of contact with that city. Not only was the gun originally stolen there (which, in isolation, could have just been the fluke of someone passing through), but it was found there again later.

I think this case is very solvable. I think more people than just the killer have knowledge.

 

[dxman]

CS... You said:

"The whole dope angle might be a red herring, but what gives it some credence is that they weren't sexually assaulted."

Although the victims still had clothing on, this does not altogether exclude a sexual motive, despite what newspapers said. Depraved persons also satisfy themselves sexually by seeing violence committed against others, a kind of sado-masochistic voyeurism so to speak, even if they commit the violence themselves. I see where you are coming from with the drug angle (and your propensity not to believe it), and evidence does point to it - but perhaps a sexual factor was at play. As I indicated before, maybe girls were murdered for not submitting to sexual advances. Could be the girls were promised pot, but a pervert tricked them, got them in his car (as you said before), and murdered them. But gangs and pot are not mutually exclusive, so I would (again) put forward a gang factor; mainly based on the configuration girls were placed and (again) that crime-writing lady who, indicated in the blog, that police figured the same based on the configuration of the victims (head-to-toe, once face-up, other-face-down).

Windsor: Yes, you are correct on the two points of contact in this city. It is a very important factor that would link everything, if physical evidence, documents, etc were discovered to this effect.

 

[CrimeSolver]

My first reflex in a case involving murdered children or adolescents is to assume it's perv-related. True, he could have garnered sexual satisfaction merely from the violent act, without sexually molesting them in any fashion, but I imagine that kind of hands-off sexual offender is very uncommon. Similarly, the placement of the bodies could be some kind of compulsion, and not a biker gang marking. It's all speculation of course. This crime certainly has some unconventional aspects.

 

[dxman]

CS: You mention biker gangs, as (also) in your Kirk/Potter posts: Why would it be a biker gang and not, for lack of a better phrase, a "normal" gang? It is my understanding that, usually, biker gangs (today at least) murder amongst themselves, so to speak. They kill others in a competing gang, or someone who did them a wrong, etc. I find it hard to believe a biker gang per se was involved. Why not just a bunch of punks in known gangs at the time? According (once again to the crime-writing lady, who claims have spoken to police on the matter), it was clear to police that the victims were placed in the position they were found which, at the time, was a symbol of a gang type killing. I do not want to diminish your POV, and I hope it doesn't seem that way. Just going by my research. The next question is: is there some resource on the history of gangs in Toronto in the 1970s? I did a search a while ago and came up with zilch. Perhaps only biker gangs were prominent in TO in the 1970s. I do not know. Seems this topic necessitates further exploration.

 

[CrimeSolver]

dxman, The reason I specify a biker gang is because that's what the police theorized in one of the Star articles about the Kirk/Potter case. As I wrote in that thread, their bodies were found in a side-by-side configuration apparently indicative of how bikers were known to position victims of homicide. Also, although I don't know how things were back in '73 vis a vis the proliferation of youth gangs, they're not exactly widespread in Toronto. And the area surrounding Downsview Collegiate is not a ghetto but an area populated solidly by blue collar, middle-class people. That's not to say teen gangs didn't or don't exist there, but to extrapolate that to speculate they would commit, and could get away with, a sophisticated crime like this without wagging tongues eventually exposing them doesn't seem realistic to me.
As for diminishing my P.O.V., no offense taken whatsoever. I'm no investigative expert, just some guy with an interest in these things. We're both trying to make sense of this from the outside looking in and with limited information.
This crime and the Kirk/Potter crime are similar in a few areas: The temporal proximity (within two years of each other; in the decades since no comparable crime); the ages and gender of the victims; the fact neither set was obviously raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, and all were found clothed; the careful positioning of the bodies.
Only the methods of murder (gun vs. strangulation) and transportation of the victims (Kirk/Potter) are overt differences.

 

[dxman]

OK, CrimeSolver, your points on biker gangs are well taken and I see your argument. It does make more sense if it was a gang murder. I haven’t gone through the Kirk/Potter articles in POTP/Globe Heritage pages so I don’t know much about that case. Very busy with work these days, but I will eventually review. If you have, on hand, a listing article dates, pages, etc, from your previous searches please indicate. Also, your proposed connection between the two cases is interesting. But I will have to review Kirk/Potter before I comment further on that. Give me some time.

 

[CrimeSolver]

It's not that I'm a proponent of the biker gang theory in this case, but between hardened motorcycle gang members and unsophisticated teenage drug pushers, I think the former is more probable. I think anyone selling drugs to the area high schoolers would have quickly arisen as a suspect.
For some reason, I'm still instinctively a believer in the random-attacker theory, despite the evidence opposed to it.

Kirk/Potter: The best Star article is from Oct. 7, 1976, pg B03. I wrote a synopsis of it over in the Kirk/Potter thread.
Other articles:
-October 4, 1971 ~ front page
-Oct. 5 ~ page 3
-Oct. 6 ~ page 47
-Oct. 14 ~ page 45
-August 25, 1980 ~ front page

Most articles repeat the same few scraps of information, but the one from 10/7/76 goes into much detail about the investigation. The story had a dismayingly short shelf life. After the four stories ending on 10/14/71, there was nothing until the '76 column, and thereafter nothing more until a rather incidental mention in the '80 article (which also mentions Stearne/Tedford).

 

[dxman]

CS..... More food for thought.

(1) You said: "For some reason, I'm still instinctively a believer in the random-attacker theory, despite the evidence opposed to it. "
At victim's sister's website there is a link to "Inter-Pro Investigations". It is a dead link. But a search showed this now to be:
investigations.bizland.com/index.html . This is a PI firm based out of New York. So your drifter theory, TO to Windsor to NY(?) would have some basis. Why else hire a NY provate investigator (but this PI seems to do international work). Note that Wendy's sister website seems to have been constructed in the late 1990s and has not been updated much.

(2) Also: found this at: www.crimenet.com.au/show_unsolved.phtml?id=127 It is overview of case from Australian website, where Wendy's sister was interviewed. Quotes from article:

For more than half of her life Wendy Tedford’s sister, Linda, has been obsessed with bringing the killer of the teenagers to justice.
From her home in Toronto, Linda told CrimeNet: “It has been almost 30 years of struggle and disappointment to keep others interested
and focused on one of Toronto`s oldest unsolved cases", “I have watched as almost every other cold case has been solved over the
years and asked why not mine? My sister Wendy was only 17, as was Donna. Their whole life was in front of them until that night."
“Could you forget if your sister was shot in the throat twice and her best friend" once in the head? I had to go to the morgue that day
to identify my sister but was saved by my neighbour whom I will never forget." “I know there are many people who have the answers
we need to solve this MURDER. PLEASE, PLEASE come forward and end this. To the friends and acquaintances of Wendy and Donna,
I would like to say I know there was lots of talk and speculation. If you think you know anything please don`t hold back any longer.
One word could make the difference.”

Note 2nd last quote: If friends/acquaintances, then not drifter? Not bikers? Perhaps drug dealer? Round-and-round, here we go again...