Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by Strangeworld, Jul 19, 2019.

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  1. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting theory. I posted an article here a few days ago where a criminologist said he didn't think the killings were planned based on their behavior, and that it was probably a robbery gone wrong or something like that and now they were fleeing in a panic.

    I think there is some evidence that points to that. For example if it was a planned killing spree, they could have taken out a lot more victims, especially during their cross-country trip, and they could have gotten away with it fairly easily. Also, they really didn't seem like they were having fun with any of this at all from witness descriptions. I know my husband said they were probably just idiots, but...a lot of killers are dumb and still get away with it. The Green River killer had an IQ of like 80 and he got away with it for decades, and that wasn't even as remote of an area. I think if it was planned, with how sloppy these two were, there would be some sign of it in their online and phone activity, like messages they sent to each other or something. If there's no evidence of that, then to me that indicates it most likely was a spur of the moment decision and maybe murder was not even the intended objective here.
     


  2. adjjones

    adjjones New Member

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    My guess is they found or stole the boat and hit a rock dead on in rapids, the boat damage indicates straight on impact at high speed. The boat could have immediately flipped and become pinned, possibly for days before releasing and bodies could have been trapped underneath. This might explain the lack of noticing the boat or debris until a few days ago. In river rapid accidents a pinned boat/body is pretty common.
     
  3. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    It's obvious that RCMP had challenges in securing crime scenes around Gillam. They specifically requested numerous times that media not publish photos of their location, and sure enough the media published photos of their locations during the York Landing search.

    RCMP eventually set up road blocks well away from search areas to manage media.

    We know that they searched the Rav4 location, and they returned to that area after the boat was found. Hopefully media did not disturb the scene too much.

    We know that if media could access the location where the bodies were found, they were be standing in the crime scene taking photos today.
     
  4. sprucetip

    sprucetip Well-Known Member

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    I laughed out loud!
     
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  5. scrappinkat

    scrappinkat Well-Known Member

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    Yes but then how did those bodies end up on the shore in dense brush??
     
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  6. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, as to me the boat was extremely dented on the left hand side. I would not have said that it did a head-on collision from the photo that I saw. I'm trying to find a link to the photo of the boat but I cannot. But it was posted here before.
     
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  7. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, reminds me of the newscaster who stood on the ashes in the case of MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck
     
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  8. scrappinkat

    scrappinkat Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned earlier that FBI were also involved in attempts to track down the suspects. Is this due to Chynna being a US citizen? Would there be other reasons they were involved, any suggestions what they could be?
     
  9. webbie

    webbie On Time Out

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    Glad to know ;)
    I wasn't sure how my silly comment would be perceived
     
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  10. adjjones

    adjjones New Member

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    The boat image shows buckling to the outside on both sides, which to me indicates strong front force impact. The dams do release but not sure what the meter fluctuations are but a high release day could have floated the pinned boat/ bodies days after impact, then deposited lighter bodies in bush near a shallow bend. While it has not been specified I would think "in the bush" could mean only a few feet in but so trapped they would not move once water fell again.
     
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  11. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    Count me in, in puzzling over this. It's the Summer of 2019 and we have a series of crimes by millenials (and I would love to know whether K/B used the word, whether they hated the word, and how they saw themselves within that generation). In the US, we're seeing an uptick in suicide among millenials. Many US colleges do an annual survey on mental health, and both suicide attempts and procurement of the means of suicide are up, three years running. So what's up? Extensive suicide is part of this picture (where the suicidal person takes out other people) has been studied, but much more needs to be done. "I want to die and I want to take people with me" can be consciously worked out (or not).

    When this story first unfolded, it seemed to me that even if some specific interactions can be established between K/B and their victims (attempted robbery, desire to steal food and camping equipment, etc), K/B may have hated society in general (hence the flight to the North) and all people (but by leaving their hometown, they avoided giving in to impulses to harm their "own people"). I think they wanted to kill and to show their intense hatred for society and social norms. They also wanted to die.

    One anthropologist, who was on staff at a workplace shooting (mental health facility, shooter was a worker, male, and depressed) developed a rubric that indicates in many cases, suicidal people are at risk for being perpetrators of homicide. Killing any human (including self) violates a major, universal taboo. Someone who is willing to violate taboos (whether universal or local) and kill (anyone) is...willing to kill humans. They are beyond that point. Most of us are not.

    Garden variety antisocial types (often called sociopaths in popular culture) are usually into self-preservation, not suicide. Suicidal persons whose ideation includes killing others are not uncommon, although clinical studies on the subject aren't adequate.

    Is this becoming more common in the general population? The writings or alleged ideas of some of these killers (mostly shooters, btw) are not out of the blue. Thousands of other people hold similar views (and connect on the internet in various ways, creating much larger subcultures than would have been possible 50 years ago).

    With Canada's abhorrence of gun culture, the actions of K/B are in a completely different context than similar crimes in the US, IMO. But...with the blurring of national culture through internet culture, perhaps K/B were less Canadian and more part of some global youth culture of their own choosing. I'd love to know.

    Today, everyone can choose (and re-choose) the cultures to which they wish to belong.
     
  12. thebedbug

    thebedbug Well-Known Member

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    I take it we still don't know if the bodies were away from the river in a place they might've tried to take shelter OR lying amid the brush as if they had been washed there?
     
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  13. sprucetip

    sprucetip Well-Known Member

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    No, you are completely wrong about why people got "up in arms" about this. As someone who lives in the area and as someone else has mentioned, random murders by "gun violence" are very uncommon here. This caught our attention because they were two suspicious deaths on the highway. It did not matter that they were tourists. These ARE outstanding deaths, because they are murders on a well traveled highway that sees very little (if any!) of this.
     
  14. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    From RCMP twitter

    upload_2019-8-8_12-34-25.png

    upload_2019-8-8_12-34-51.png
     
  15. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I quite agree, 10ofRods. I think they were suicidal all along, in the sense that it was always seen as their ultimate way out.
     
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  16. sprucetip

    sprucetip Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how fast they are, I'm not aware of when anything airs originally. But yeah, the interview with AS looks SO sensational, not sure I want to watch it either.
     
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  17. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    FBI and RCMP often work together behind the scenes.
     
  18. sprucetip

    sprucetip Well-Known Member

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    I would have expected a warning that same day, July 15. Not 24hrs later.

    Northern BC, northern Alberta, Yukon and Alaska are all connected very well because of the highways despite the huge distances. Everyone in this area should have been warned. And not just "oh jeez, suspicious deaths" but a warning that there may be a killer on the hwy.
     
  19. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Why? All they knew was two young people were found dead outside a van. It could've been murder suicide. It could've been someone they knew who was following them or caravanning with them.

    There is no reason IMO to believe that everyone in all of Canada on remote highways would be in danger because two people were found dead somewhere and the random death of two people suddenly indicates a serial killer is on the loose.

    I get the concerns. But I'm not seeing a failure here with this at the moment. If they knew they had possible serial killers on their hands and hid that evidence I would have an issue with that.

    In retrospect everything is much clearer than it is in the moment. We can see that there were two disturbed young adults who committed different murders along a long stretch of terrain and were a danger to the nation. At the time I'm not seeing how that could've been concluded.

    I'm not even seeing how it could be concluded that a couple of violent highway robber/murderers were afoot. Not at that moment. Because to my knowledge they didn't steal anything from Lucas and Chynna?

    So why would the RCMP conclude that it was dangerous to be on all the highways of Canada and that drivers need to be cautious based on one suspicious apparent homicide?

    It's not computing to me although I see how in retrospect we can conclude that more warnings should've been given.

    But at the time it takes a bit to figure out what's happened. Why. And whether there's a general danger.

    Typically, murders are isolated events and victims are targeted for specific reasons. One event that includes two homicides usually doesn't indicate a pattern or a threat to the general public.
     
  20. sprucetip

    sprucetip Well-Known Member

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    Problem with this is that vehicles on the side of a highway in a remote area, mean they are likely not working. Why would they even assume they could steal it? And why would they choose such an old vehicle to steal? They could have gone 20km further to Liard Hot Springs Lodge where there were probably some really nice vehicles to steal, with people out at the lodge or sleeping!
     
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