Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

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lettertothestars said:
Steam Community :: Bryer

Steam Community :: Kam

Kam’s account is private so you won’t be able to get much information from it.
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Thanks for these I hadn’t seen them before. Reading the comments on Bryer’s account actually made me quite sad.

I haven’t commented in a while here but have been following the threads (still completely fixated on this case) and just want to thank everyone for their continued insight and sleuthing.
 
steelybird said:
Thanks for these I hadn’t seen them before. Reading the comments on Bryer’s account actually made me quite sad.

I haven’t commented in a while here but have been following the threads (still completely fixated on this case) and just want to thank everyone for their continued insight and sleuthing.
Click to expand...

I was surprised to see how his Steam contacts knew who he was in real life to know that he died. These “friends” don’t seem bothered about what he did just sad that he is gone.
 
Bluedaisy100 said:
I see that Whitehorse is highlighted on the map. Does this indicate they made it up there? I was under the impression they hadn't.
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They could have gone to Whitehorse on July 15 and returned to BC on July 18, but we have no proof. They passed through Watson Lake once for sure. My hunch is that they camped between Watson Lake and Dease Lake from July 15-18.
 
SovereignSnake said:
I was looking over their possible route after Meadow Lake and it appears the defining moment to go North or South happened in The Pas, Manitoba. Boy, I would love to have been there when that decision was made. With the rate at which they were traveling (I'm getting exhausted just thinking about it) they easily could have traveled south to Winnipeg undetected and on into Ontario.
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I think you're probably correct on that. The decision fits in with others along the route to bypass southern highways to avoid places like Edmonton and Winnipeg and avoid being detected...unless they are driving more randomly and headed north after Prince Albert and headed north on 106 via Flin Flon and Cranberry Portage.

Like I wrote in an earlier posting, it doesn't matter too much either way, but it does speak to intent and planning: as direct a route as possible to northern Manitoba or random driving along northern roads until they finally ran out of road.

You're right, though, that they could have chosen differently and sped right on by Winnipeg and be well into Ontario before LE were any the wiser. When the RCMP had that press conference announcing the pair as suspects on July 23, they could have already been past Thunder Bay and speeding southwards.
 
steelybird said:
Thanks for these I hadn’t seen them before. Reading the comments on Bryer’s account actually made me quite sad.

I haven’t commented in a while here but have been following the threads (still completely fixated on this case) and just want to thank everyone for their continued insight and sleuthing.
Click to expand...

I just read the one where he gets a warning for killing a teammate and for excessive friendly fire.
 
SovereignSnake said:
I was looking over their possible route after Meadow Lake and it appears the defining moment to go North or South happened in The Pas, Manitoba. Boy, I would love to have been there when that decision was made. With the rate at which they were traveling (I'm getting exhausted just thinking about it) they easily could have traveled south to Winnipeg undetected and on into Ontario.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that it was a decision and not just "keep driving!" I don't think they had any type of plan for where they were going. I think they were driving in a more or less random direction and weren't thinking about what would happen when they got to the end of the road. As I said it's like those police chases you see on TV where the suspect drives until they get stuck or their car breaks down, and then tries to run away on foot. If they were actually thinking, they would know that they weren't really ever going to get away.

steelybird said:
Thanks for these I hadn’t seen them before. Reading the comments on Bryer’s account actually made me quite sad.
Click to expand...

Yeah it kind of underlines how (although they did have issues) the two of them were basically just normal teenagers joking around with their friends. Until they decided to go out and murder people for some reason. Why?
 
NJSleuth91 said:
Yeah it kind of underlines how (although they did have issues) the two of them were basically just normal teenagers joking around with their friends. Until they decided to go out and murder people for some reason. Why?
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Yeah, of all the missing pieces in this story, I'm most intrigued by the sequence of events leading up to July 12. What happened or what series of things happened that led to them leaving Port Alberni and standing outside that blue van on the night of July 14/15? Can a series of small, everyday decisions/experiences lead to five deaths or does it take something more dramatic?
 
This is my very first Websleuths post ... I've been a lurker for quite some time now, generally being content enough to just read everyone's unique and thoughtful perspectives on crimes and court cases. However, this particular case has truly kept me up at night. I go back and forth on the actual plan of KM & BS, or if there even was one. For what its worth, here are my thoughts on their long, tragic joyride...thoughts that still keep changing too!
They could definitely have planned a thrill kill trip, and suicide was always the option should they not be able to elude police. Reasons I can't commit to this 100% is because it appears they took plenty of clothing and particular personal items (gaming computer). But, really, do we know just how much clothing they took? Were their closets and drawers cleaned out? Perhaps they just took enough for awhile. As to the computer, maybe they just didn't want law enforcement to confiscate it from their homes ... they would have to know the police would show up there eventually. Admittedly, taking the computer is a sticking point for me. Also, I know other posters have mentioned they possibly went off the rails after being away from their structured, familiar environment .. first time away from home and all. But they started out on 7/12 .... CD & LF were killed 7/14-7/15. Is that how quickly they went berserk? Just 2-3 days away from home? Sure, its possible this was a robbery gone bad and then everything just snowballed and there was no turning back. If that is the case, then I believe KM & BS had to have this scenario in the back of their minds .... they must have discussed such things (robbery, killing, suicide) at various points in their lives, no? What I don't believe is they ever had any intention of looking for work anywhere. They lied about their travel plans apparently. They took at least two guns. So many other questions and things they did that don't fit neatly into either scenario. I know they weren't Einsteins, but I don't believe they were total dimwits either. The whole thing is terribly sad. Five lost lives, five destroyed families. And for what. This is all just my humble opinion, of course.
 
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NJSleuth91 said:
You're assuming that it was a decision and not just "keep driving!" I don't think they had any type of plan for where they were going. I think they were driving in a more or less random direction and weren't thinking about what would happen when they got to the end of the road. As I said it's like those police chases you see on TV where the suspect drives until they get stuck or their car breaks down, and then tries to run away on foot. If they were actually thinking, they would know that they weren't really ever going to get away.
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I know it sounds like they didn't have a plan and I don't think they really did. Kind of like a teenage boy Thelma and Louise I guess. But in terms of driving on designated roads and conserving gas, they did have a natural human inclination to head in one specific direction. In this case East. Someone mentioned a few threads back they probably didn't understand how few roads there are in Manitoba and how massive the Hudson Bay is. However if you look at Google Maps, once you reach The Pas, Manitoba you have basically two decisions, head North or head South otherwise you run into Lake Winnipeg which may as well be one of the Great Lakes. It's huge!
 
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Bluedaisy100 said:
The image at Fairview made me realize how handsome Kam was. I suddenly felt heartbroken for his mom and dad. Why throw it all away? I still can't get my head around it.
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I have a hard time wrapping my head around it to.

My son is a similar age to Kam and Bryer. My son and his best friend did a similar trip to these guys the year after they graduated. They jumped in an old beater car and said they were going on a road trip to Edmonton from B.C.

I told them they were crazy and figured they'd get 50 miles from home, break down and the trip would be over. Instead they made it to Edmonton and back and now have memories of a silly road trip taken when they were young and naive.

What happened that made Kam and Bryer throw all that their life had to offer away?

I'm heartbroken for their parents too. You do the best you can raising kids but sometimes that's just not enough... I can't imagine the pain their parents must be having right now.
 
Jan424 said:
This is my very first Websleuths post ... I've been a lurker for quite some time now, generally being content enough to just read everyone's unique and thoughtful perspectives on crimes and court cases. However, this particular case has truly kept me up at night. I go back and forth on the actual plan of KM & BS, or if there even was one. For what its worth, here are my thoughts on their long, tragic joyride...thoughts that still keep changing too!
They could definitely have planned a thrill kill trip, and suicide was always the option should they not be able to elude police. Reasons I can't commit to this 100% is because it appears they took plenty of clothing and particular personal items (gaming computer). But, really, do we know just how much clothing they took? Were their closets and drawers cleaned out? Perhaps they just took enough for awhile. As to the computer, maybe they just didn't want law enforcement to confiscate it from their homes ... they would have to know the police would show up there eventually. Admittedly, taking the computer is a sticking point for me. Also, I know other posters have mentioned they possibly went off the rails after being away from their structured, familiar environment .. first time away from home and all. But they started out on 7/12 .... CD & LF were killed 7/14-7/15. Is that how quickly they went berserk? Just 2-3 days away from home? Sure, its possible this was a robbery gone bad and then everything just snowballed and there was no turning back. If that is the case, then I believe KM & BS had to have this scenario in the back of their minds .... they must have discussed such things (robbery, killing, suicide) at various points in their lives, no? What I don't believe is they ever had any intention of looking for work anywhere. They lied about their travel plans apparently. They took at least two guns. So many other questions and things they did that don't fit neatly into either scenario. I know they weren't Einsteins, but I don't believe they were total dimwits either. The whole thing is terribly sad. Five lost lives, five destroyed families. And for what. This is all just my humble opinion, of course.
Click to expand...

I agree and I'm still shocked at how emotionally vested I've become in this whole case. I even dragged my coworker into it and now she's utterly obsessed. Mostly because I've seen so many aspects of my own life in both Kam and Bryer. It made me think of a story that happened in 2012. I went to college in Germany for awhile and I remember one thing I knew I absolutely could not live without abroad was my Xbox 360. I'm a huge gamer, not a PC gamer like them, but there was no way I was leaving America without my beloved gaming console. Even being on a life adventure an Ocean away from friends and family that console was still a comfort item. Those boys taking their computers along told me they did intend on having a life together somewhere else and it was not meant to be a suicide mission.
 
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Esprite said:
They seemed to be quite unconcerned about changing their appearance. If they did have their hair cut in Meadow Lake, Kam missed an opportunity to shave his beard off rather than just trim it, which would change his appearance completely.
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I get the impression they were both attached to their respective looks and weren't interested in changing their general aesthetic, even in the name of hiding.

Based on the handful of pics I've seen, Bryer must have liked the minimalist survivalist look and Kam seemed to be going for casually tousled but with ironic or edgy pop culture references (Cathulu, Under Armour Alwaya Lethal, etc.)

Truthfully, if I hadn't encountered the Cathulu shirt in the course of reading about a murder case, I'd think it was hilarious and buy the shirt for myself. But that would just seem really weird now.

MOO

Pardon any typos. Still restricted to the phone!
 
NJSleuth91 said:
You're assuming that it was a decision and not just "keep driving!" I don't think they had any type of plan for where they were going. I think they were driving in a more or less random direction and weren't thinking about what would happen when they got to the end of the road. As I said it's like those police chases you see on TV where the suspect drives until they get stuck or their car breaks down, and then tries to run away on foot. If they were actually thinking, they would know that they weren't really ever going to get away.



Yeah it kind of underlines how (although they did have issues) the two of them were basically just normal teenagers joking around with their friends. Until they decided to go out and murder people for some reason. Why?
Click to expand...

I still think that they did not have a conscious plan to kill anyone. My dad (who was in WW2) said the worst person to have on your team was someone who was afraid. Studies actually support my dad's view. If two people have guns (for whatever reason, they did have guns) and they are intending to rob someone or just mess with them, the scared person is far more likely to just shoot.

If they did talk it over in advance, and they planned to shoot under particular circumstances ("if they don't give us their , we'll just shoot 'em!") then one of them might have perceived that shooting should commence (as Bryer does all the time in his video playing) and the agreement was that if one shot, they both shoot (you know, like gang members always do, often without actually discussing it - it's understood).
 
10ofRods said:
I still think that they did not have a conscious plan to kill anyone. My dad (who was in WW2) said the worst person to have on your team was someone who was afraid. Studies actually support my dad's view. If two people have guns (for whatever reason, they did have guns) and they are intending to rob someone or just mess with them, the scared person is far more likely to just shoot.

If they did talk it over in advance, and they planned to shoot under particular circumstances ("if they don't give us their ****, we'll just shoot 'em!") then one of them might have perceived that shooting should commence (as Bryer does all the time in his video playing) and the agreement was that if one shot, they both shoot (you know, like gang members always do, often without actually discussing it - it's understood).
Click to expand...
Yeah as I've mentioned on here before, I was told by an experienced bank robber that the worst person to bring along on an armed robbery was a nervous person. He said it was a recipe for chaos, capture, and violence.
 
About K&B's illogical packing of a gaming computer and other things: Hasn't anyone ever overpacked for a trip? Hasn't anyone under-packed for a trip? Hasn't anyone opened their suitcase and thought, "What was I thinking, bringing that?" I have and I'm somewhat a seasoned traveller. It's impossible to speculate about why anyone does anything, isn't it?

It's clear the social net (not social network) but the mesh that holds a society together failed. But it failed a looooong time before they packed their computers and a suit in a camper.
 
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