Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

[outcast]

The 97 Yonge bus goes all the way up Yonge Street. She could have taken it from Yonge and Eglinton up to the 401 or walked from York Mills station, which is very close.

You are right. I have never seen TTC bus north of Eglinton. I guess the explanation is that the next stop is at Lawrence. Anyway, thank you for correction.

 

[flipflop]

If I remember correctly, her first class that day was English and her brother was in the same class. When she didn't show up, was that when it was immediately reported? I still haven't found when the family reported her missing. I found an article mentioning a missing persons report was issued the following day but is that when LE decided to issue the report or is that when she was reported missing by her family?

Does anyone remember?

I remember an earlier article that stated George and MM met for lunch each day, when she didn't show up he just figured she went home sick. It was at the end of the school day that they found her to be missing. IIRC

I do not recall knowing that they were in the same 1st class. I thought she went in another door, as her 1st class was closer to that particular door.

 

[dotr]

I wonder if Mariam wandered away from school that day with the idea of meeting someone or perhaps even to " checkout" the other schools in the Y and E area.. Maybe M got hopelessly lost trying to find her way home.Had she been frightened or mugged?
One thing ( besides a note) that would suggest planning, is if Mariam left a piece of jewelery at home that she would have normally worn everyday.

 

[antiquegirl]

I remember an earlier article that stated George and MM met for lunch each day, when she didn't show up he just figured she went home sick. It was at the end of the school day that they found her to be missing. IIRC

I do not recall knowing that they were in the same 1st class. I thought she went in another door, as her 1st class was closer to that particular door.

You are correct on all counts, Flip. Actually, her first class on that day was a new one and it was close to the front (south) entrance. She never made it to that class, according to school sources.

It was reported that Mariam's parents called LE "right away" when George came home without her. They were there that night to investigate, but the news releases came out the next day.

 

[antiquegirl]

I'm wondering why George's words are dismissed so easily - what he said early on matches 100% what LE is saying following an autopsy of MM's remains.

Would still like to see George's paintings - a previous post did not show results when tried as posted. I like that he seems to be his own person regardless of what is happening around him that is out of his control. I have a spot or two that needs to be filled.

(BBM)

I guess because he used the word "maybe". Also, because he was the only one to even bring up the word, while everyone else close to her said she was happy. I think that most teenaged brothers don't pay much attention to their sisters unless it affects them somehow. They lived with different relatives back in Georgia for the past few years (not all of them, I believe) and had only been living together for two months when this happened. At the time George said this, I didn't pay any attention to it, either. I thought it was just a random guess on his part, and maybe it was. If she did commit suicide, perhaps it wasn't so random after all.

There are some videos or pictures of the family's apartment that show some artwork. I'd guess that some of them might be George's work.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Thank-you to those who posted some interesting things on the previous thread, regarding falls vs. jumps, Mariam's diaries, pictures of the location etc.

I was wondering a few things:

-Are there any other "high" spots in Earle Bales Park, that Mariam could have jumped from? If Mariam committed suicide, she must have chosen that location specifically.

-Why would LE be so interested in trying to review highway cameras from so long ago, if the forensic evidence is conclusive with a suicide?

-What is Lela afraid of? Is it parental denial?

 

[~n/t~]

I remember an earlier article that stated George and MM met for lunch each day, when she didn't show up he just figured she went home sick. It was at the end of the school day that they found her to be missing. IIRC

I do not recall knowing that they were in the same 1st class. I thought she went in another door, as her 1st class was closer to that particular door.

Thanks. Again, I read an article stating they were to go to English class together. Maybe they got it wrong. If I find where I read it, I'll post.


ETA: My misunderstanding. The way it was worded had me confused.

She entered the English as a Second Language class at Forest Hill Collegiate Institute with her brother George, remembers classmate Catalina Bernal, who had emigrated from Colombia in 2009.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/09/149961/

 

[outcast]

Thank-you to those who posted some interesting things on the previous thread, regarding falls vs. jumps, Mariam's diaries, pictures of the location etc.

I was wondering a few things:

-Are there any other "high" spots in Earle Bales Park, that Mariam could have jumped from? If Mariam committed suicide, she must have chosen that location specifically.

-Why would LE be so interested in trying to review highway cameras from so long ago, if the forensic evidence is conclusive with a suicide?

-What is Lela afraid of? Is it parental denial?

I get the same vibe. I always though that she was afraid of something/somebody.

It seems that there are so many questions to be answered. I hope that investigation about what happened to Mariam will not take another two and half years.

 

[~n/t~]

If it was suicide, sadly, we may never know why she decided to end her life.

From all that I've read, she was a quiet, shy, introvert young lady. I don't think she was bullied by her school mates. As a matter of fact, many of the students are immigrants just like Mariam.

Mariam, who had arrived in Toronto that June from the Republic of Georgia, was shy, but not any more so than her 15 to 20 peers, who tentatively launched into English-speaking exercises once introductions were over, Ms. Bernal said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/09/149961/

Perhaps she missed home and her friends back in Georgia. Perhaps life in big city Toronto was too much for her to handle. Perhaps the cultural differences made her insecure. Perhaps the way she was being raised by her parents was not how her grandma raised her back home.

So many questions we may never get answers to. Her brother seemed to adjust quicker to the new life. Mariam probably never did and sadly, never will.

 

[krisycrnch]

Trust me ~n/t~ there was a video clip that showed Mariam's parents showing her drawings...I'm not making this up...wish I could find the video clip, but I cannot even remember which date, and lots of videos are no longer available.

Perhaps someone else here remembers seeing it .... I guess that recent article you posted is referring to her not writing in a journal...I was referring to her drawing pictures.

Was this the clip of them showing the reporter the Mariam's bedroom and the pooh bear and card her friends from Georgia sent ? ...

oops...you already found it . sorry

 

[LilyMacBloom]

My condolences to family and friends.
Re: distance I don’t find an hour and half walk to be an unreasonable distance. I take my dog for a 45 min walk every morning and I’m certainly not 18. If it’s a nice day on a Sunday Mr. Mac and I take the dog for a 2 hour or more walk. Did the family WALK to the Earle Park that they frequented on a regular basis? If they did then this would be a familiar walk for M.

Re; back pack, where M dropped it isn’t where it was found. MOO

Re: overpass From the pictures posted it looks like the area M was found abut the park. Is it possible that instead of walking along the overpass M came to the area from the Park and climbed UP the ravine to UNDER the overpass. Perhaps M took refuge under the overpass. I’m no engineer but is it a possibility that there is a crawl space under the overpass for repair people or during construction workers could be underneath the overpass, thereby M would not have been seen by anyone driving? But could get to over the ravine by climbing/crawling under the overpass? (hope that makes sense).

Perhaps M didn’t have a clear plan that morning when she left but sitting underneath the overpass, in the darkening hours after being alone all day the opportunity presented itself. RIP

 

[dotr]

LilyM. I have been wondering the same thing about MM trying to climb up the structure perhaps from a crawl space. Driving in a car south on Bayview, towards the lake, before the Humane Society, I noticed ( as a passenger)on several occasions, a man tucked into some kind of a ledge under an overpass.He looked pretty comfy and very alert too ,with a clear eye and view of the large dog park nearby...So, yes -I can see a depressed introverted person seeking out a high , remote " nest" to think and feel safe for awhile.

 

[dotr]

At times youth suicides seem to follow a trend.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/10/russians-alarmed-rash-teenage-suicides/print/
"In the southwestern Siberian region of Tuva, the rate reaches a staggering 120 suicides per 100,000 teenagers, while the nearby region of Buryatiya has an average rage of 77 per 100,000. Both regions are impoverished and have high crime and alcoholism rates.

Two 14-year-old girls in the Moscow suburb of Lobnya killed themselves this week by jumping off the roof of a 14-story building while holding hands. They had skipped classes for two weeks and were terrified of what their parents would do to them once they found out, Russian media quoted their friends as saying.

Several other recent teen suicides have been reported elsewhere in Russia.

Experts say that domestic violence and problems in schools are among the main reasons why adolescents take their lives.

Relations between Russian children and their parents are often "notable for their cruelty,"

 

[antiquegirl]

My condolences to family and friends.
Re: distance I don’t find an hour and half walk to be an unreasonable distance. I take my dog for a 45 min walk every morning and I’m certainly not 18. If it’s a nice day on a Sunday Mr. Mac and I take the dog for a 2 hour or more walk. Did the family WALK to the Earle Park that they frequented on a regular basis? If they did then this would be a familiar walk for M.

Re; back pack, where M dropped it isn’t where it was found. MOO

Re: overpass From the pictures posted it looks like the area M was found abut the park. Is it possible that instead of walking along the overpass M came to the area from the Park and climbed UP the ravine to UNDER the overpass. Perhaps M took refuge under the overpass. I’m no engineer but is it a possibility that there is a crawl space under the overpass for repair people or during construction workers could be underneath the overpass, thereby M would not have been seen by anyone driving? But could get to over the ravine by climbing/crawling under the overpass? (hope that makes sense).

Perhaps M didn’t have a clear plan that morning when she left but sitting underneath the overpass, in the darkening hours after being alone all day the opportunity presented itself. RIP

ITA with everything you wrote. It occurred to me that Mariam might have reached the overpass via the park instead of the street, but I'm not familiar with the area, so I don't know if it's possible and didn't post it. Could the poster(s) who are familiar with the golf course tell us if this is possible? It wouldn't even have been necessary to climb up right from where she was found, but may have been anywhere west or east of it.

There didn't have to be a crawl space, though, for her to have hidden out. Plenty of trees and bushes, plus the areas beneath the bridge where she could have sat undetected until she eventually climbed up. This is why it occurred to me that she may have got there on Bathurst Street instead of Yonge.

Regarding possible depression: When someone is clinically depressed or has bipolar disorder, there isn't always a reasonable explanation. It's a chemical imbalance. Interesting info here:

"With that in mind, research has found that stressful life events can lead to the onset of symptoms in bipolar disorder. However, once the disorder is triggered and progresses, "it seems to develop a life of its own." Once the cycle begins, psychological and/or biological processes take over and keep the illness active."

"So the bottom line, according to today's thinking, is that if you are manic depressive, you were born with the possibility of developing this disorder, and something in your life set it off."

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/bpbasics/a/what_causes_bp.htm

It is true that we may never find out Mariam's state of mind when this happened. Even her family may not, but it would be up to them to decide if the information should be made public or not. As strangers, we really don't have a right to know such a private matter.

JMO

 

[dotr]

I imagine that it may not be in the best interest of a family new to a country, to disclose any known or suspected mental health problems.

 

[roseofsharon]

I wonder if M's textbooks belonged to the school or did she have to purchase them herself. Either way, when you purchase them, they are usually used in most cases, with the previous owners names on the inside cover (from my own experience). I realize not always.

The point I guess I am trying to make is that when the books are school property, there is a stamp on the hard cover just inside with the name of the school at the top of a small chart and then the student usually signs or prints their name in the book on a line, indicating the year, and the grade they are in.

The MM case was so high profile and it boggles my mind that if it had changed hands several times from the initial find, that the first person who found the backpack wouldn't have opened at least one book and recognized the name of the missing MM and call LE.

Since MM was known to be a bookworm, my hunch is that she was also probably very meticulous regarding caring for her books and imo did write her name inside of them, as books would have been very important to her.

The backpack appeared to look in mint condition, not one that had been exposed to weather for five weeks. There did not appear to be any dirt from it being dragged on pavement, etc. Was everyone that handled it that careful with it?

It's incredible with MM reported missing a month before that people living in the buildings in the area where the backpack was finally found, indicated they saw it for a couple of weeks and thought it was just left behind by a student at a school in the area.

Did LE mean that M's DNA was not even present on the backpack?

Just some thoughts and imo.

A collective thank you for all posts, I'm getting behind in my reading!

 

[SideKick]

I was browsing for more photos of the area where M was found. This link popped up named Abandonded UE- Hogs Hollow Freeway Bridge with photos.


http://www.uerev.com/index.php?pid=hoggsbridge

 

[LilyMacBloom]

I was browsing for more photos of the area where M was found. This link popped up named Abandonded UE- Hogs Hollow Freeway Bridge with photos.


http://www.uerev.com/index.php?pid=hoggsbridge

Thanks for the link, first sentence answers everything I needed to know: (from link)

"I have a special like of bridges. Something about building structures to take people from point A to point B, over the terrain, I guess. Even more fun is the support structure under them, especially if you have catwalks to play around on.

And this one has just that, along with some good height and a great view of the valley it crosses on either side. Plus the ability to get into the grassy median between the highway and an offramp, which was a plus."

 

[SideKick]

Thanks for the link, first sentence answers everything I needed to know: (from link)

"I have a special like of bridges. Something about building structures to take people from point A to point B, over the terrain, I guess. Even more fun is the support structure under them, especially if you have catwalks to play around on.

And this one has just that, along with some good height and a great view of the valley it crosses on either side. Plus the ability to get into the grassy median between the highway and an offramp, which was a plus."

~~ Yes! I read about the terrain access too. I would love to find more recent photos however not that easy. These photos were taken May 2009.

 

[Hazel]

I'm wondering why George's words are dismissed so easily - what he said early on matches 100% what LE is saying following an autopsy of MM's remains.

Would still like to see George's paintings - a previous post did not show results when tried as posted. I like that he seems to be his own person regardless of what is happening around him that is out of his control. I have a spot or two that needs to be filled.

:leaf2: here is the link Woodland -- there was a card similar to #2 (but with blue background), that I liked, but it's gone now.

Mods, hope it's ok to post this link; if not, please remove this post if you think I shouldn't have post it here

http://www.etsy.com/shop/maiatabi?ref=seller_info