Identified! Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, Apr'77 - Gordon Edwin Sanderson

[branmuffin]

Thinking that Sam might have been sick as a child with TB, polio or scarlet fever, imo, speculation.
Vignettes from a pre-immunization Canada as childhood vaccination rates plummet | National Post
''Thousands were paralyzed by polio as late as the 1950s
In 1921, a 39-year-old Franklin Delano Roosevelt visited New Brunswick for a family vacation. He climbed into bed with a serious fever, and when he awoke he could not feel his legs. This nightmarish scene would play out thousands more times in Canada, often to children, until the advent of the Jonas Salk-invented polio vaccine. “Paralysis Spreads Throughout Canada” read a Globe and Mail headline in September 1937 after polio fatalities and paralyses began to crop up everywhere from New Brunswick to Alberta. In 1953 Canada recorded a peak of 481 polio deaths. Even as polio immunization was in full swing by the late 1950s, the disease went out with a horrifying finale.''

Tuberculosis was once Canada’s leading cause of death
''Well into the 20th century, the only treatment for the disease was bed rest and fresh air in a quarantined facility known as a sanatorium. There were 19,000 beds in these sanatoriums by 1953 and any Canadian showing symptoms of the disease would be forced into them for years on end.''

Scarlet Fever..
LETTER: Reader recalls his time in quarantine in the 1950s - BarrieToday.com
''At the time, this was a notifiable disease. Cases had to be reported to the public-health authorities. They visited my home, gave my parents instructions and quarantined the house.''

An official notice was taped to the front door stating that scarlet fever was inside and barred entry to anybody but my parents.

I definitely think polio could be a cause for the skeletal aspect of an illness; don't know if the teeth would be affected by polio, though.

Bone TB would definitely affect bones, specifically the spine and/or long bones, again, not sure about the teeth.

When I was a kid in England I do remember homes being quarantined for things like scarlet fever, diptheria but I can't see those illnesses affecting the skeleton or teeth.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I feel like, at least Polio, would probably show up on autopsy, though I don't know how thorough it would have been.

 

[MistyWaters]

Who killed 'Septic Tank Sam?'

This is quite a comprehensive report about the unsolved crime and the location as well, probably has been linked before so maybe just a refresh.

 

[SweetestVenom]

They look strikingly similar. And the timelines seem to add up, as well. The only thing that I'm stuck on is that it's a 6 hour drive between Dawson Creek and Tofield, but assuming he was travelling to find work, that might not have been a problem. Also, there was a couple of years in-between when Williams went missing and when John Doe was discovered, so I guess time will tell.


I just called the Dawson Creek RCMP to let them know about this possible link!! They're going to look into it and let me know if anything comes of it. I will, of course, keep this thread updated as well!

Have they responded and given an update yet?

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I ran Sam Doe through artbreeder.com and merged him with an indigenous man. I figured he could use a little sprucing up.

 

[Eman317]

Had a dream last night that this guy got identified. Unfortunately I couldn't remember his name. If he does get identified in real life, it'll be crazy if its the same name from my dream.

 

[Feme98]

Wow! And what did you see in your dream? You were watching a news title? Press conference? Can you recall the first letter of his name? Or a name that sounds alike to what you heard/saw?

Had a dream last night that this guy got identified. Unfortunately I couldn't remember his name. If he does get identified in real life, it'll be crazy if its the same name from my dream.

 

[Feme98]

Also, did the composite resemble what you saw in your dream? Like the comparison between the real photo and the reconstruction.

Had a dream last night that this guy got identified. Unfortunately I couldn't remember his name. If he does get identified in real life, it'll be crazy if its the same name from my dream.

 

[dotr]

CRIME HUNTER: Serial killer Junior Pierce a loser in life and death | Toronto Sun
Aug 8 2020

''UNIDENTIFIED MURDER VICTIM
WHEN: April 13, 1977

WHERE: Tofield, AB

411: People searching a 1.8 metre deep septic tank to retrieve a pump found the unidentified homicide victim’s decomposing remains. It’s believed he had been murdered months earlier, then rolled in a yellow bedsheets and tossed head-first into the tank. The victim had been turtured with a blowtorch and cigarettes, beaten and sexually assaulted before he was shot multiple times.
Cops believe the killer(s) are familiar with the area. It is suspected the dead man worked on local farms and probably not from Alberta.

DESCRIPTION: Indigenous, brown hair, 26-40-years-old, 5’5″ to 5’7″, 145-165 lbs., medium build, right-handed and suffered from a childhood illness. He was wearing a blue Levi shirt with snap buttons, gray T-shirt, jeans, gray wool socks, brown imitation Wallabee shoes.

CONTACT: The RCMP, Crime Stoppers or your local police service.''

 

[branmuffin]

Sounds more Scandinavian to me.

Graven means the grave or tomb
Kjir doesn't come up in any online dictionaries or searches but would be roughly pronounced as sheer or shuh.

I think 'kjir' is from the Flemish dialect Friesan. it might mean 'go'.

 

[wary]

Who killed 'Septic Tank Sam?' rbbm.
"Even after all these years Sgt. Warren still thinks about the murder.

“This tends to be one of the more baffling,” said Sgt. Warren who had a 41-year career with the RCMP.

Sgt. Lammerts said it’s clear the body wasn’t supposed to be found. The killer(s) went to great lengths to hide the body.

“There’s no doubt in my mind. Five to six months tops and there would have been nothing left.”

Who was capable of the brutal murder

Sgt. Lammerts said someone capable of the torture and murder isn’t normal and without a doubt is cruel.

“That type of cruelty; beaten, burn marks all over, torture, you have to have a different background to do that.”

The person who committed the murder – if still alive – would be 67 to 72 now (2019) and it hasn’t bothered his conscience (yet), he pointed out.

He said, however, that RCMP always believed that decades later, someone in their 80s, would have a guilty conscience and confess to the police, thinking at that age they wouldn’t get much, if any, jail time."

Where to call in tips

If anyone has information about this cold case they are asked to call Tofield RCMP at 780-662-3353.

The reference case number is 2012502446. Or, if you want to remain anonymous, call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). Or go online to https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtipsstart.aspx.

Or email the National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains at
canadasmissing-disparuscanada@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

Unless I’ve really missed something, this statement from the article is very strange: “The person who committed the murder – if still alive – would be 67 to 72 now (2019) and it hasn’t bothered his conscience (yet), he pointed out.”

That’s a ridiculously narrow range of ages for a totally unknown killer. Did the journalist get the quote wrong? Or the Sgt misspoke and left out a few decades? Or....?

 

[branmuffin]

There's lots of studies on the age range of killers. On average they can be between the ages of 25 and 34. Newer studies show that age range has lowered a bit. Of course serial killers dont stop until they're caught, die or just get too old to continue. I'm on my phone and can't link a study but www.statistica.com shows the average age of killers in 2018.

 

[wary]

There's lots of studies on the age range of killers. On average they can be between the ages of 25 and 34. Newer studies show that age range has lowered a bit. Of course serial killers dont stop until they're caught, die or just get too old to continue. I'm on my phone and can't link a study but www.statistica.com shows the average age of killers in 2018.

And that’s interesting, but he wasn’t talking about the average age of killers. We’re talking about one completely unknown killer out of the multitude. A five year age span makes no sense at all.

Another thing I wondered about. To what extent is that other thing he said true? About murderers confessing, once they get up into their eighties? Sure it could happen, but does it happen enough that it makes a trend?

 

[peace+love]

I ran Sam Doe through artbreeder.com and merged him with an indigenous man. I figured he could use a little sprucing up.

That looks so much better. Anybody else absolutely HATE the clay reconstructions??? I guess they're better than they were ten years ago but they always look so off.

 

[Feme98]

That looks so much better. Anybody else absolutely HATE the clay reconstructions??? I guess they're better than they were ten years ago but they always look so off.

I think that inicially it was a good approach, but it could have been better if they updated and created newer reconstructions.

 

[dotr]

This unrelated murder reminded me of what happened to Sam, although i would not associate Alberta with the Mafia (will check that out) it seems they might dump a body at a distance from where a murder took place. Fwiw, imo, speculation.
HUNTER: Gangsters of old didn't shoot the innocent | Toronto Sun
''The 1961 gangland torture murder of French Connection mobster Alberto “The Baker” Agueci was brutal and whisper quiet.

He had left his Toronto home on the morning of Oct. 8, 1961 for a court appearance in Rochester over a drug trafficking beef.''
Agueci would never make that date.
Instead, on Nov. 23, 1961, hunters found his charred body in a western New York cornfield.
An autopsy revealed his teeth had been knocked out, his ribs were broken, and in a macabre touch, his genitals were missing along with 30 lbs. of flesh carved from his body.
He was strangled with barbed wire and his body burned.
At that time and place, targeted killings were rare birds.''

 

[branmuffin]

This unrelated murder reminded me of what happened to Sam, although i would not associate Alberta with the Mafia (will check that out) it seems they might dump a body at a distance from where a murder took place. Fwiw, imo, speculation.
HUNTER: Gangsters of old didn't shoot the innocent | Toronto Sun
''The 1961 gangland torture murder of French Connection mobster Alberto “The Baker” Agueci was brutal and whisper quiet.

He had left his Toronto home on the morning of Oct. 8, 1961 for a court appearance in Rochester over a drug trafficking beef.''
Agueci would never make that date.
Instead, on Nov. 23, 1961, hunters found his charred body in a western New York cornfield.
An autopsy revealed his teeth had been knocked out, his ribs were broken, and in a macabre touch, his genitals were missing along with 30 lbs. of flesh carved from his body.
He was strangled with barbed wire and his body burned.
At that time and place, targeted killings were rare birds.''

Rare unless you were mob connected.

 

[Ajaygee11]

Unless I’ve really missed something, this statement from the article is very strange: “The person who committed the murder – if still alive – would be 67 to 72 now (2019) and it hasn’t bothered his conscience (yet), he pointed out.”

That’s a ridiculously narrow range of ages for a totally unknown killer. Did the journalist get the quote wrong? Or the Sgt misspoke and left out a few decades? Or....?

Or he actually has an idea of who did it and he let it slip unintentionally ?

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

Or he actually has an idea of who did it and he let it slip unintentionally ?

I read somewhere there was a RCMP officer called to a house near where Sam was found (*before the body was found*)- his statement was he couldn't prove a crime had occurred there but he suspected there was a link to what happened to Sam............ DON'T quote me on that because the original article is more specific about the information. It's also obvious that the killer or killers were local as it's doubtful outsiders would have done such a crime in such an isolated area.

Also- hate to point this out but back then it was very common for people to be openly hostile/discriminatory towards First Nations people. From the details of the killing it seems like the killers weren't that worried about the repercussions. Again, it was a societal norm to view First Nations people as second class citizens, or worse. I could say so much about this topic but I will save it for a later date.

 

[Ajaygee11]

I read somewhere there was a RCMP officer called to a house near where Sam was found (*before the body was found*)- his statement was he couldn't prove a crime had occurred there but he suspected there was a link to what happened to Sam............ DON'T quote me on that because the original article is more specific about the information. It's also obvious that the killer or killers were local as it's doubtful outsiders would have done such a crime in such an isolated area.

Also- hate to point this out but back then it was very common for people to be openly hostile/discriminatory towards First Nations people. From the details of the killing it seems like the killers weren't that worried about the repercussions. Again, it was a societal norm to view First Nations people as second class citizens, or worse. I could say so much about this topic but I will save it for a later date.

Yep, the RCMP Officer who quoted the quite specific date range may have some strong suspicions but not quite enough proof possibly.