Casey & Family Psychological Profile #6

[BetsyB]

Mental illness is not equivalent to mental incompetence.

Casey's actions clearly show an understanding of right and wrong.

The ship has sailed on an insanity defense. (She would never stand for it, anyway--even if her attorney pushed hard.)

 

[Tichad3]

It's very hard to prove "insanity". Plus, I don't think KC qualifies. She went through a lot to cover her tracks...this means she understands between right and wrong.

 

[songline]

Casey's not insane. She's cunning. Devious. Manipulative. But not insane.
Insane is not lying and covering up the deed you've done.
Insane is Andrea Yates, who killed her 5 children, then called her husband and LE. She met LE at her front door and told them what she'd done.
Casey continued on with her daily life, lying to everyone about the whereabouts of Caylee. Little Caylee was out of sight, and out of mind.
Casey is a narcissistic , superficial sociopath.
Her behavior was crazy, but Casey is not.

I respect your opinion, but I can give you some facts because I have a severely bipolar daughter.
THEY DO lie and cover up a lot of things even thing they do not need to lie about at all. I read a lot about this. It seems to be proven to be part of the illness.
It is very hard for the family to understand sometimes, why they do what they do. As a mom, therapists have told me that I am highly perceptive and see things more clearly then many.
IMO it is because a Mom should have a 6th sense about her kids.
Cindy should have seen this imbalance long ago.

 

[songline]

what bearing does the 30 page document have on the case now? I believe the death penalty atty really does believe she is mentally ill, due to her lack of emotions, but this was filed before the body was found.

I have believed she is mentally unstable, from the time i watched her, wearing the blue hooded sweatshirt, that she bought with amy's money, being led into custody, with such a deranged wide-eyed look on her face. Everytime i see it i have the same feeling......detached & deranged, it makes my blood run cold!

me too

 

[songline]

Personally, I'd go for mentally ill but guilty. She covered up. That indicates consciousness of guilt. She's still covering. She's got mental problems, no question, but she knew what she was doing, and she knows she did it. She moved on without a care after double-bagging her baby and throwing her away like stinky garbage by the side of the road. She partied on, slept around and lied like a rug. She has brought death to her own child and destruction into the lives of many who considered her a friend. She is costing decent people in Florida, and probably nationwide, bazillions with her actions. She has devastated her family, not even having the decency anywhere in her being to relent and confess so that her family could find some closure or peace. She may have mental issues, but she's still a monster. No way should she walk among us again for a good 30 years to life.

GREAT POINT. made bold.
I think that is what the LAW looks for.
Did she know what she was doing at the moment that she did it.
I do not think that the fact that she harmed so many people and is deranged has a barring on the final outcome.
But if they can say she knew what she was doing when she harmed Caylee.
I think that would constitute a reason why they can or can not plead Mental illness.

 

[natsound]

IMHO I have said from the start Casey sounded mentally ill, I was called a good Samaritan, or a humanitarian, and that Casey is just plain EVIL.
I still believe she is mentally ill, and her parents can NOT absorb this fact.

I do not think her attorney knows what he is doing.

FROM THE ARTICLE "MOMMY DEAREST": (Lots of information that I agree with).
The Mind of the Sociopath
According to Criminologist, James Alan Fox, professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University, some act on genuine psychotic delusions. Others can be motivated by selfish reasons if the child is perceived by them to be an obstacle in their relationship with a boyfriend, or preventing them from living the carefree lifestyle that they want.
>SNIP<
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Mommy-Dearest/18$45493

A few months back, before the remains were found, I posted that KC had a mental illness and I was corrected by other posters who say she has a personality disorder, not a mental illness. I tend to agree with that. There were also strong arguments that KC is not a sociopath because she doesn't fit the MO. Just throwing that out there.

 

[natsound]

It's very hard to prove "insanity". Plus, I don't think KC qualifies. She went through a lot to cover her tracks...this means she understands between right and wrong.

If KC really was insane, she wouldn't have felt the need to lie about killing her daughter, correct? If she didn't know right from wrong, she wouldn't have made up excuses and lies to mask her actions, which she knew were wrong. IMO, it's too late for an insanity plea.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I believe even JB knows, that she doesn't even come close to qualifying for an insanity defense.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

Using a mental defect defense shifts the burden of proof from the State to the defense ... I don't think that JB wants to open himself (his questionable skills as a lawyer) to that type of scrutiny ... as it stands now ... he doesn't have to do anything other than counter the prosecution's circumstantial evidence with his own bought and paid for experts and try to cloud the minds of a few jurors with the needed doubt.

Also, I am sure by now, he has had his own psych eval performed, as well as the findings from the State, and knows that KC doesn't meet criteria!

 

[LinasK]

I do not think she is insane, just evil and used to getting her way no matter what she had to do.

Casey's not insane. She's cunning. Devious. Manipulative. But not insane.
Insane is not lying and covering up the deed you've done.
Insane is Andrea Yates, who killed her 5 children, then called her husband and LE. She met LE at her front door and told them what she'd done.
Casey continued on with her daily life, lying to everyone about the whereabouts of Caylee. Little Caylee was out of sight, and out of mind.
Casey is a narcissistic , superficial sociopath.
Her behavior was crazy, but Casey is not.

Casey was aware there was a problem because she took steps to HIDE the problem.

The duct tape negates temporary insanity OR Casey not knowing there was a problem.

If Casey put duct tape over Caylee's mouth to STAGE a kidnapping, Casey was aware of what happened. Putting duct tape over a living Caylee's mouth so the neighbors won't hear her scream is an act of deliberation. Mothers who temporarily go insane from rage don't duct tape first.

Making plans with Cindy to get her out of the house so you can get in the house for shovels, gas, trash bags and food for your boyfriend also requires the ablility to plot your wrongdoings.

IMO

Agree with all of the above...

 

[awakewriter]

I agree she is not legally insane.

She deliberately misled law enforcement and admitted to it on tape. Conciousness of guilt.

She showed no emotion when Padilla and his crew searched the river at JBPark, but hyperventilated when she saw a report a child's body was found on Dec. 11. Conciousness of Guilt.

She's a sociopath.

I, as well as many of you, would like to believe it was an accident or there's some rational explanation. It takes away some of the horror, helps us wrap our minds around the event.

Unfortunately, I don't believe it was an accident, and I don't believe Casey was or is insane, temporarily or otherwise.

What she did to Caylee is horrific. No matter what I want to believe to make it easier on my own psyche, it always comes back to that.

Cold-blooded murder.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Couldn't she be guilty by reason of mental disease or defect? Surely, FL has that? That wouldn't mean insanity, ie she walks, but, she goes to prison/psych ward until/if ever judge mentally healthy again? I don't personally like that one and hope they don't use it, but, am just throwing it out there for discussion.

 

[Hermione]

In regards to determining sanity vs. insanity........or mental illness for trial for defense.......

I can see how Andrea Yates could have been evaluated and found insane, because it was just clear, clearly so...plus given her history, etc. In Andrea's case I felt very sorry for her. I did not want her to be found not guilty or even necessarily to get anything less than life in confinement, but I didn't feel she deserved to be dumped in prison with cold blooded killers, I saw a clear difference. Her mental illness doesn't lessen what she did, but I do think (and have read, but don't have links or remember where, I think it just comes up in researching articles about her) that Andrea, after some treatment, felt great remorse and horror at what she'd done.

But when you think about mental illness in the direction of personality disorders OR sociopaths...how can you truly evaluate these people?? They are not going to be suffering from delusions or hallucinations or admit to anything being wrong with them. How do you evaluate them? What kind of tests would they use on KC and how would you know she's not faking either being sane (so she can continue on thinking she will attain an acquittal) OR in some cases if someone wanted to plea insanity, how would you know if they are skewing the test results on purpose. ???

 

[blupencl]

You are right about that.
But I do not believe she is indifferent.
I DO believe she has some defect.
IT dos NOT mean that she should not go to JAIL.
It only means that should be part of the defense. JMO

I believe as you do. I never have thought she was "innocent" but that she had to be insane and there must be something under the law that covers this, somewhere.

 

[Hermione]

BTW I could not even begin to form an opinion of what I think KC truly is mentally, until I know the facts of the case (after trial I guess if ever).

It makes a BIG difference to me to know when and why she duct taped Caylee's mouth. If it was while she was alive to stifle screams or to keep her quiet while she was in the trunk during partying-- BAD ENOUGH. If it was to keep her quiet because KC knew she was going to kill her- 100% EVIL no question about it. I think the first is evil too- but it's just not the same as #2 scenario. And if something accidentally happened to Caylee, and the duct tape was used after the fact to keep her mouth closed- this is awful too, but again, very different from the first 2 scenarios.

The WHY's behind KC's actions make a big difference to me and should to jurors I would think (except KC's probably going to remain in denial). KC at least owes these answers to her family.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Unless Jose is planning to attempt to use this as a defense I'm not touching this thread- I really don't want a time out!

 

[Seebra]

Most human beings cannot fathom that someone could murder their own child without being insane.

That being said, to prove insanity in court, they would have to show that KC has no idea as to what she was doing - not on June 16th, the act, not back in March, with the internet searches, not during the party time between 6/16 and 7/15, not during the ZFG references, not when leading the police on a wild goose chase, and she did herself in when she stopped at Universal and turned around to tell LE "OK, you got me. I lied."

Insanity would not know truth from lies, fact from fiction.

 

[gardenhart]

I don't know why this concept is hard to understand. If anyone who was mentally ill (and I would include personality disorders in that too) could be deemed legally insane, who would be found guilty of murder? Can you think of a single murderer who is mentally healthy?

Bottom line is someone could be profoundly mentally ill but still be legally sane if they knew right from wrong when the crime was committed.

 

[songline]

I believe even JB knows, that she doesn't even come close to qualifying for an insanity defense.

Frankly I am not very clear on this. Seems to me that Casey is emotionless, love starved, do anything for a thrill because she is numb inside.
HER REACTIONS and her replies while calculated are as if she has NO BLOOD IN HER VEINS she is Ice Cold.
That is not humane....It has to be a mental illness.
The Mind directs the Body how to feel. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
But she does not feel. I can see that she can understand what she is doing, but she has a cross wire IMO I am not a Dr. so I am not going to label it, but the wires are definitely crossed up stairs.

I do realize that a big part of the legal consideration of mental illness is KNOWINGLY doing something wrong.
While she went through her actions mentally to hide, lie, I fail to see emotion:
one picture has her with eyes bulging like a crazed lost soul.
Mentally she knew, but the body feels and her body didn't feel - it was inhumane - I think JB saw it too? but the law will prevail here, it seems that it is not going in that direction.

BUT CERTAINLY NOT BECAUSE there is no merit for insanity , normal people do not do what she did and act numb.
Let them continue with the Nanny had her.....But let there be justice for Caylee.
MO

 

[amethyst221]

I don't think there has been an insanity defense because the defendant doesn't meet the legal definition under Florida law, which isn't especially liberal.