Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

[JBean]

correct...KC did NOT have a license.

"News 13 has learned that she does not have a driver's license, only a learner's permit, so it was unclear how she got around with her daughter." Now I am wondering why GA & CA allowed her to drive. Wondering if she just snubbed her nose to taking the road test or if she had a license that was revoked due to the seizure JG took her to the E.R. for in 2007.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sideba...ed_over_casey_anthony39s_emotional_state.html

seizure (last paragraph)
The caller informed the 911 operator that Casey Anthony was having a seizure. The operator notes that Casey was "unresponsive and shaking" and that she had experienced "nausea all day and was drinking heavily" the night before.”

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7953974&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

My original post got moved for some reason..Anyway, I am certain I read early on the KC did NOT have a drivers license. I bring this up bc as you said those who are eplieptic cannot legally drive for obvious reasons. I also know that it is standard procedure for a hospital to notify the DMV in cases like these.

Here in CA the doctors have to report seizures to the DMV, but our research shows that in FL doctors are under no obligation to notify them.
BTW< people with epilepsy can drive. My epileptic son just had a seizure while driving on 1/1. he will lose his license for about 3 months and then he will be back on the road.

That article you quoted is from July and that information has been clarified. The reporting agencies were incorrect.She did have a driver license.

1.Go to the doc dumps and take her driver license number off her statement.
2. Google the state of Florida department of motor vehicles or whatever it is called in FL.
3. Go to the driver license section where you can check on the status of a driver license.
4. Put her number in

 

[BritDees]

I'm in the there-was-no-seizure camp. I think it was a Casey fabrication. I wonder what topic of conversation or activity she was try to avoid when she "seized." It seems to me that if Cindy or George said to her, one morning, "We really need to have a talk about what's been going on around here," or even, "We need you to pitch in," she'd find a "seizure" a mighty good way to postpone that discussion. Cindy and George walk on eggshells around her to avoid her wrath--they certainly would not press a Sick Little Princess to do anything she didn't want to do.

Not buying it for one second.

Bolded by me. I agree with you. Just for the record, not to long ago I read a story by Anne Rule called, "Heart full of Lies". This woman killed her husband and IIRC she faked a seizure once to get out of a confrontation. When I heard of this supposed seizure of Casey's I immediately thought of that book. She lied to the same extent that Casey does and thought everyone would buy it. In fact, to me it seems like they were made out of the same mold.

 

[JBean]

did any more information ever come out about this in the doc dumps?

 

[Ada]

I had a friend, some time ago, who had seizures whenever her long suffering husband tried to grow a pair and leave. Medical test after medical test. Oddly she was never put on anti-seizure medication.

I'm just saying.

 

[hornswoggled]

Whether she had a seizure or not, I feel the defense will try to weave it into the insanity plea somehow.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Wow JBean, I totally understand, and send my :blowkiss: out to you and your son. Is he seeing a neuro or an epileptologist?

My daughter (now 25) and I both have seizures, and they are very different. Hers are the gran mal (generalized) seizures, and she has had them since aged 9. They are very violent, but she does not get violent with anyone. She could conceivably hurt someone that was trying to hold her down (wrong thing to do with a seizure patient anyway), but does not "act out" violently. It changed a bit when she was pregnant, and she had some sz that are termed "complex partial sz". In those, she didn't lose total consciousness, just partial. She walked around, doing weird things that we had never experienced with her before. Not getting violent or anything, just strange. Ran down the street in her pj's, trying to get away from "the smoke" ????? She never remembers anything when she recovers either.

My seizures on the other hand are 90% either simple partial seizures or complex partial seizures. All depends on if I lose any portion of consciousness. I usually stay in one place, although I may try to get to my family. I will say though, that I have very infrequently had some major, major issues with memory loss, proven to be caused by seizures. I have lost entire days due to seizures, and noone could even tell I was having a seizure. This is a VERY rare form of epilepsy, and I am NOT EVEN suggesting it is what happened to Casey. She obviously remembered her seizure.

One time, I was on a business trip, got a migraine in the airport, turned into a seizure I guess after I got on the plane. The plane diverted due to weather I guess to Lord knows where, and they put us up in a hotel for the night. I had no clue where I was or why I was there. I just followed the crowd and somehow, got to the right hotel. Luckily, I guess when DH called that night, I was coherent enough not to scare the bejeepers out of him, because I know I was several states away from him. Somehow I got back to the airport in the morning and got on the right plane and flew home. To this day, I don't know where I went, where I stayed, and how I got back to the airport. It was shortly after that incident that I left my job on disability. Never went back. Social Security and my private insurance both accepted my claim.

In order to use seizures as a defense, they would have to have a serious, long medical history here of bizarre behavior that could be attributed to epilepsy. Then, some serious medical tests run to prove it, by some very, very competent docs. Even then, if it was drugs/alcohol that was causing "seizures", it would be determined not to be epilepsy, rather that her life-style brought on the seizures, so she was still responsible for her actions.

Sure would hate to see them go down this track. Can't see it working, and can see it backfiring on them big time.

JMO - sorry for the long post. Sensitive subject for me too I guess, just thinking about them coming up at the last minute as an excuse when only the 1 seizure has been brought up. Stranger things have happened tho.

Barb- I hope you wear a MedAlert bracelet so people will have some idea what is wrong with you if this happens again, and not misinterpret your symptoms. That is scary, not knowing where you were or why!

 

[ZsaZsa]

Bolded by me. I agree with you. Just for the record, not to long ago I read a story by Anne Rule called, "Heart full of Lies". This woman killed her husband and IIRC she faked a seizure once to get out of a confrontation. When I heard of this supposed seizure of Casey's I immediately thought of that book. She lied to the same extent that Casey does and thought everyone would buy it. In fact, to me it seems like they were made out of the same mold.

What was going on between Casey and Jesse at the time she had the 'seizure'- does anyone remember if it was some situation where she was trying to manipulate him?

 

[essies]

Whether she had a seizure or not, I feel the defense will try to weave it into the insanity plea somehow.

I hope the SA will ask for proof and documentation of medical treatment for this seizure and also for any treatment for any miscarriage in case the defense tries to use PTSD. The one good thing about this not going to trial till prolly 2010 will be that nothing should take the SA by surprise.

 

[Brini]

Whether she had a seizure or not, I feel the defense will try to weave it into the insanity plea somehow.

Epilepsy IF she has it, does not cause people to murder. It usually causes them to fall down and seize (grand mal).

She might be a sociopath with concurrent, but not causal epilepsy.

Or, she might just be too much of a flake to get a drivers' license.

 

[Darla]

From the beginning I felt KC has BPD and when I first heard of a seizure I thought it might be related to that.

>There is some relationship between seizures and bipolar disorder all right, we just don't know what.<

http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2000/ph8.htm

 

[Brini]

:chicken::chicken:

From the beginning I felt KC has BPD and when I first heard of a seizure I thought it might be related to that.

>There is some relationship between seizures and bipolar disorder all right, we just don't know what.<

http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2000/ph8.htm

There is also a poorly understood relationship between migraine and epilepsy. Some neurologists opine that migraine is a slow epileptic seizure.

And, some BPD medications are prophylactic for migraine, and can either alleviate or exacerbate major depressive disorder, as well.

However, epilepsy, BPD, MDD and migraine are not always co-morbid.

They aren't even USUALLY co-morbid.

And, even if KC had BPD (which doesn't look likely). She has no psychiatric hx, and is able to behave very calmly, when she wants to do. She hasn't had hypomanias in jail. She STILL would not reach the legal definition of legal insanity, if she suffered from BPD, or any other psych disorder. She spent too much time and effort covering up to have not had guilty knowledge and awareness.

She's already been dxed by two prison shrinks, BTW. They did not put her on any psych medications. That leaves out BPD.

My guess is that they dxed at least two Axis II disorders, one of them being sociopathy (Antisocial Personality Disorder). The other is likely NPD or BPD.

 

[JBean]

:chicken::chicken:

There is also a poorly understood relationship between migraine and epilepsy. Some neurologists opine that migraine is a slow epileptic seizure.

And, some BPD medications are prophylactic for migraine, and can either mitigate or exacerbate major depressive disorder, as well.

However, epilepsy, BPD, MDD and migraine are not always co-morbid.

They aren't even USUALLY co-morbid.

And, even if KC had BPD (which doesn't look likely). She has no psychiatric hx, and is able to behave very calmly, when she wants to do. She hasn't had hypomanias in jail. She STILL would not reach the legal definition of legal insanity, if she suffered from BPD, or any other psych disorder. She spent too much time and effort covering up to have not had guilty knowledge and awareness.

Hi Brini. I think it is very common to find comorbid epileptics .

Do we know whether or not she has displayed any manic behavior in jail? As you know, mania can also manifest itself as anger and we have certainly seen that. Think of her jail calls and visits. I don't necessarily think that KC is bipolar but I am not sure we can rule that out. But then we are getting off topic!

I doubt she is epileptic or has any kind of seizure disorder. I think only one seizure has been reported and it's not that unusual for someone to have one seizure for any number of reasons.

I totally agree that even if she suffered from any of these disorders none of them would explain her behavior. While my epilpetic son has no memory of his actions up to maybe an hour before and an hour or more after his seizures, he doesn't manufacture information as to what he did LOL.

 

[Brini]

Hi Brini. I think it is very common to find comorbid epileptics .

Do we know whether or not she has displayed any manic behavior in jail? As you know, mania can also manifest itself as anger and we have certainly seen that. Think of her jail calls and visits. I don't necessarily think that KC is bipolar but I am not sure we can rule that out. But then we are getting off topic!

I doubt she is epileptic or has any kind of seizure disorder. I think only one seizure has been reported and it's not that unusual for someone to have one seizure for any number of reasons.

I totally agree that even if she suffered from any of these disorders none of them would explain her behavior. While my epilpetic son has no memory of his actions up to maybe an hour before and an hour or more after his seizures, he doesn't manufacture information as to what he did LOL.

But, think of the majority of the time. She eats, she reads, she sleeps. She's had a couple of tantrums. That's not necessarily hypomania. She has always had tantrums. Said tantrums were usually related to an event, not a random cyclical change-- like her tantrum or anxiety attack when she saw the coverage of the discovery of Caylee's remains. Or, the tantrum we saw on TV, when she reacted negatively to CA's questions. She almost slammed down the phone and stalked off.

If she was bipolar, she likely would not have been able to keep so cool with LE during questioning. Or, especially during the period of time between Caylee's disappearance and KC' arrest. Hypomanics tend to become loquacious, when cycling up. There was a distinct likelihood that she would have slipped and given something away, while hypomanic. Somebody would have noticed-- friends, family.. somebody. She would not have been able to stay on an even keel when, say, at those dinner parties at TonE's. She could have cycled up and talked too much, or down, and been paralyzed with remorse.

She's generally expressed sadness or depression when discussing her own confinement, rather than uncontrollable cyclical depressions. It's appropriate to situation.

In short, her behaviors do not appear to be entirely subject to specific neurochemical cycles. And, the disorder would have been noticed earlier. At school, it would have been hard to miss.

If the prison shrinks had dxed KC with any Axis I disorder, they would have put her on meds. Or, they are supposed to do, anyway. She wasn't on psychotropics when she was out on home confinement, and that was after she was psychiatrically examined. Psych meds have to be titrated up, to determine a level of efficacy. That requires fairly frequent visits to the clinic, at first. My guess is that that info would get out, and into the 'loids.

But, you are dead right-- it is within the realm of normalcy for some people to have one seizure, and not be epileptic. One of my patients had a seizure at the stage show "Catz." The strobe lights set it off. Some meds can set off seizures, as well.

 

[JBean]

But, think of the majority of the time. She eats, she reads, she sleeps. She's had a couple of tantrums. That's not necessarily hypomania. She has always had tantrums. Said tantrums were usually related to an event, not a random cyclical change-- like her tantrum or anxiety attack when she saw the coverage of the discovery of Caylee's remains. Or, the tantrum we saw on TV, when she reacted negatively to CA's questions. She almost slammed down the phone and stalked off.

If she was bipolar, she likely would not have been able to keep so cool with LE during questioning. Or, especially during the period of time between Caylee's disappearance and KC' arrest. Hypomanics tend to become loquacious, when cycling up. There was a distinct likelihood that she would have slipped and given something away, while hypomanic. Somebody would have noticed-- friends, family.. somebody. She would not have been able to stay on an even keel when, say, at those dinner parties at TonE's. She could have cycled up and talked too much, or down, and been paralyzed with remorse.

She's generally expressed sadness or depression when discussing her own confinement, rather than uncontrollable cyclical depressions. It's appropriate to situation.

In short, her behaviors do not appear to be entirely subject to specific neurochemical cycles. And, the disorder would have been noticed earlier. At school, it would have been hard to miss.

If the prison shrinks had dxed KC with any Axis I disorder, they would have put her on meds. Or, they are supposed to do, anyway. She wasn't on psychotropics when she was out on home confinement, and that was after she was psychiatrically examined. Psych meds have to be titrated up, to determine a level of efficacy. That requires fairly frequent visits to the clinic, at first. My guess is that that info would get out, and into the 'loids.

But, you are dead right-- it is within the realm of normalcy for some people to have one seizure, and not be epileptic. One of my patients had a seizure at the stage show "Catz." The strobe lights set it off. Some meds can set off seizures, as well.

We are too far OT, so i will conclude this part of the discussion by saying i don't necessarily disagree with anything you are saying. but i don't think we have enough information at this point, so I am reluctant to rule anything out or in.

But back to topic, there are so many reasons people can have seizures it is just about threshholds. Strobe lights, sleep deprivation,illness, drug use or withdrawal, head injuries or just plain old garden variety ideopathic seizure disorders LOL. I don't think it is uncommon for people to have a single tonic clonic seizure and not be epileptic at all. If KC actually had a seizure i still don't think she is epileptic and I don't think we have any evidence that she is.
But , FWIW, we also have to remember that there a many more kinds of seizures besides the grand mal.

I was just wondering if we saw any confirmation of her having a seizure in any of the doc dumps. I think it will be interesting to find out if it was real or not.

 

[Melanie]

Wonder if that goes hand in hand with Kiomarie's statement that Casey would say something to her then the very next day claim she had no memory of the convo ever happening. Psychotic fuges or drug related?

Oh, my sister does that all the time. She'll tell the same story over and over, not remembering she said it to me the day before. It's called alcohol and drugs (or in my sisters case alcohol and oxy). Me and my mom used to talk about it all the time. She'd get all loopy, then go into a 72 hour hold, come out again. She's 50 now, and still doing it, but there's nothing her husband will do about it (I cut all ties 3 years ago). She was never willing to get the help she so desperately needed, so I said buh-bye. I still hear stories through the grapevine.

In any case, I think KC had a bad drug/alcohol reaction that night and ended up having a seizure (overdose). I wonder if the hospital did a drug test on her that night. The results might prove interesting

Mel

 

[OneLostGrl]

What was going on between Casey and Jesse at the time she had the 'seizure'- does anyone remember if it was some situation where she was trying to manipulate him?

There is always a "reason" for someone like Casey to manipulate another. Nothing has to be "happening". It's what her mother does, her father does, and imo she is probably not even aware of it half the time, it's like breathing it's so deep in her psyche. She just does it.

 

[OneLostGrl]

From the beginning I felt KC has BPD and when I first heard of a seizure I thought it might be related to that.

>There is some relationship between seizures and bipolar disorder all right, we just don't know what.<

http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2000/ph8.htm

I don't want to go too far off topic with this but I feel it should be at least discussed. First, let me just state, I do not think Casey has Bipolar disorder, her "symptoms" are not that of Bipolar. (We don't kill our kids, we typically end up "living for" them, ie they are often the only reason many of us choose to continue living. Yes, we are impulsive & we are known to make poor choices but they are typically SELF destructive. We have morals, we have a conscience.. we feel HUGE amounts of guilt for our wrongs.)

Anyway- I agree with you to a point about the Bipolar/ seizure relationship. There is no doubt a "kindling" effect, the medications we take are the same ones people with seizure's take.. there is the "misfire" of the brain. But IMO IF a person with Bipolar ends up having seizures it is in large part due to the years of heavy anti-seizure medications.

I notice the link you provided.. the person writing in, asking questions, mentions she/he is on 600 mg of Neurontin because the doctor wanted to " start me on a low dose". IMO that is a not such a low starting dose for a person with Bipolar and could very well cause a problem. Too heavy a dose of a seizure med without having introduced it slowly into the users system... I can't even begin to tell you how dangerous that can be. Seizures aren't the only possible negative side effect if the medication isn't introduced properly into a persons system. Previous Seizure disorder or not.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I hope the SA will ask for proof and documentation of medical treatment for this seizure and also for any treatment for any miscarriage in case the defense tries to use PTSD. The one good thing about this not going to trial till prolly 2010 will be that nothing should take the SA by surprise.

They don't need to waste their time but I'm sure they have all available medical information on Casey. The defense can't "use" PTSD. In order for insanity to be used as a defense there must be a documented history of mental illness.

 

[OneLostGrl]

We are too far OT, so i will conclude this part of the discussion by saying i don't necessarily disagree with anything you are saying. but i don't think we have enough information at this point, so I am reluctant to rule anything out or in.

But back to topic, there are so many reasons people can have seizures it is just about threshholds. Strobe lights, sleep deprivation,illness, drug use or withdrawal, head injuries or just plain old garden variety ideopathic seizure disorders LOL. I don't think it is uncommon for people to have a single tonic clonic seizure and not be epileptic at all. If KC actually had a seizure i still don't think she is epileptic and I don't think we have any evidence that she is.
But , FWIW, we also have to remember that there a many more kinds of seizures besides the grand mal.

I was just wondering if we saw any confirmation of her having a seizure in any of the doc dumps. I think it will be interesting to find out if it was real or not.

I haven't seen any confirmation in the doc dumps.

 

[MissJames]

My son has seizures also.I found out while researching that doctors don't label someone as epileptic unless they have had more than one seizure.There are just too many reasons a person could have one and then never have another seizure in their lifetime.
There would also be medical records showing testing with EKG's,although not all seizure disorders show up on these.