Christmas

[Trino]

The Ramseys now have three grandchildren? I hope no one leaves their kid alone with Jon and Patsy on Christmas night. As for the little granddaughter--I hope John Ramsey is never alone with her any time of the year.

And, we can hope these kids are never entered in any pageants.

 

[Zman]

And, we can hope these kids are never entered in any pageants.

Theres nothing wrong with pageants.

I'd be willing to bet more girls who have never come within a sniff of a pageant have been molested or killed or both, then those who have been in a pageant of any kind.

 

[leann coburn]

My only complaint about pageants of all kinds are that they promote an idea and an image that one thing is always better than another. They teach these girls that what they are worth in life is largely based upon their beauty. It's just the fact of life that each of us tries to find a "reason" why we are special. Some think they are special because of beauty, some because they have money, or power or knowledge or because of their station in life. Many grown men believe that they have to have the "right" car and the "right" job and a full head of hair to have any meaning in this world. Of course, each of us has special meaning; we are the only one of us that there is. Psychologically speaking, I don't think it is good to reinforce these false ideas in children. They will carry them through their lives and constantly compare themselves with others. This is no way to live and certainly a false viewpoint.

We want strong and healthy kids, mentally and physically. We want them to be happy well-adjusted adults. Why not teach them that nothing makes them special on this earth except by being their selves.

Where do you think teenage girls get the pressure to throw up their meals? Why do children w/better clothes qualify as better people. That's a ridiculous notion that is always wrong in the end. If you put your girls in pageants, then what are you teaching them about what value they have to you except for what prizes they might win? In the long run, none of these matter. But these ideas cause a lot of the discontent and sorrow in this world. Sadly, many don't realize this until the reality hits them at a funeral and they suddenly realize that death is the great equalizer. And fathers, be the best role models for your daughters that you can be. They might very well be influenced by your image in the men they choose in their future lives.

jmo

 

[rashomon]

My only complaint about pageants of all kinds are that they promote an idea and an image that one thing is always better than another. They teach these girls that what they are worth in life is largely based upon their beauty. It's just the fact of life that each of us tries to find a "reason" why we are special. Some think they are special because of beauty, some because they have money, or power or knowledge or because of their station in life. Many grown men believe that they have to have the "right" car and the "right" job and a full head of hair to have any meaning in this world. Of course, each of us has special meaning; we are the only one of us that there is. Psychologically speaking, I don't think it is good to reinforce these false ideas in children. They will carry them through their lives and constantly compare themselves with others. This is no way to live and certainly a false viewpoint.

We want strong and healthy kids, mentally and physically. We want them to be happy well-adjusted adults. Why not teach them that nothing makes them special on this earth except by being their selves.

Where do you think teenage girls get the pressure to throw up their meals? Why do children w/better clothes qualify as better people. That's a ridiculous notion that is always wrong in the end. If you put your girls in pageants, then what are you teaching them about what value they have to you except for what prizes they might win? In the long run, none of these matter. But these ideas cause a lot of the discontent and sorrow in this world. Sadly, many don't realize this until the reality hits them at a funeral and they suddenly realize that death is the great equalizer. And fathers, be the best role models for your daughters that you can be. They might very well be influenced by your image in the men they choose in their future lives.

jmo

Great post, leann coburn - very insightful!

 

[Zman]

My only complaint about pageants of all kinds are that they promote an idea and an image that one thing is always better than another.
jmo

How do they do this?

Does little league do this too?

How about science fares?

Ice skating?

Gymnastics?

Spelling bee's?

 

[concernedperson]

I think she is trying to post about exploitation which is a far difference from competition. Girls are frequently exploited for their looks. Take Brittany for instance, cute girl, no moral value. It is like girls have no existence but to please. This promalgates the myth and devalues all girls everywhere.Instead of promoting their insight or intellect, they choose to exemplyfy a fading thing...good looks! These people don't recognize a core and that is the problem. There are great girls everywhere who have a core and who deserve every bit of acknowledgement that can be measured by their acts and not their looks.

 

[txsvicki]

I can't believe that anyone would think that it is appropriate to dress tiny girls up in skimpy sexy looking clothing, hair, makeup, and body movements. Why, and who and what inner thoughts is this supposed to be appealing to? Good grief, child psychologists would think that girls who behave sexually in everyday life have been abused and the other stuff would be labeled grooming for sexual abuse. What's wrong with these people? It's not always the prettiest that are in pageants either, just those who can afford it. Personally, even though she's attractive , I don't think that Patsy is/was that great looking.

 

[leann coburn]

Exactly right, concerned. As we age along the road as females, we begin to realize that everything is transitory. Nothing is fixed. Not our state in life or our physical abilities or our beauty. Women should concentrate on what is real, not what a society is out to sell us. I understand zman's belief that being against competition is wrong and unnatural. And yes it is, and I'm not against competition. But even with boys, they are many times way too pressured to perform by the adults around them.

When one is young and gets together w/friends, it is like a trip to the fair. When one is older, the fair is over and real life has taken over and these suddenly "older" people are questioning "what has happened to the kids?". The kids have been fed a toxic diet of violence and sex (and the disgusting mixture of both) that our society is doling out to them. And please believe me when I say that corporate America has got a job lined up for them with a great big nametag on a shirt. Just waiting for them. No, it was naive when we got in trouble in art class for painting a tree blue instead of green. But now take a look at what these kids are saying through their art. The sad clowns and such. My Mom-inlaw is an art teacher w/young children in the school system. You should see some of this stuff 6 year olds are turning in. So maybe teaching us the tree always had to be green was too stiff and intolerant. Maybe it stunted our psychological growth. But now we're at the other extreme and I have to think people our age were better off taking things slower. We got to be kids for a lot longer. Before we started school, mom let us color however we wanted. We could be creative. But part of the first and second grades was learning that there were rules in nature and that sometimes we should follow them.
Dress your little girls up like they are old enough for an irish traveler wedding and then wonder why grown men and/or women might be sexually infatuated w/them? Because people are sick and evidently they never learned to stay within the lines. They didn't see the little girl. They saw the wild colorful picture that Patsy had drawn w/her. But there was a real girl with real worth right underneath that carefully crafted image.

jmo

 

[leann coburn]

And zman, just remember that you are right to argue your point. But I think you see just the image that was so beautiful. I don't blame you...she looked like an angel.


peace

 

[Linda7NJ]

Theres nothing wrong with pageants.

I'd be willing to bet more girls who have never come within a sniff of a pageant have been molested or killed or both, then those who have been in a pageant of any kind.

Zman, on this subject, I must agree with you.

There is nothing sexy about any six year old. I don't care how much make-up you slather on them or how skimpy you dress them. Six year olds are not sexy, unless the person looking is a twisted freak! Twisted freaks will always find an excuse to be attracted to children. Pageants have nothing to do with it.

 

[rashomon]

Zman, on this subject, I must agree with you.

There is nothing sexy about any six year old. I don't care how much make-up you slather on them or how skimpy you dress them. Six year olds are not sexy, unless the person looking is a twisted freak! Twisted freaks will always find an excuse to be attracted to children. Pageants have nothing to do with it.

IMO, pageants where the children are dressed up to look like precocious Lolitas are a form of child abuse. For it's the adults who deliberately choose those skimpy dresses for the children. It's the adults who teach them in special lessons how to perform 'seductively' for an audience. It's the adults who will have to answer the questions why they apply make-up to their little girls' faces so that they'll look like Marilyn Monroe.

The Ramseys called their book the 'Death of Innocence'. There may be more truth in that title than they ever imagined.
They robbed JonBenet of her life even before she was killed.

 

[concernedperson]

IMO, pageants where the children are dressed up to look like precocious Lolitas are a form of child abuse. For it's the adults who deliberately choose those skimpy dresses for the children. It's the adults who teach them in special lessons how to perform 'seductively' for an audience. It's the adults who will have to answer the questions why they apply make-up to their little girls' faces so that they'll look like Marilyn Monroe.

The Ramseys called their book the 'Death of Innocence'. There may be more truth in that title than they ever imagined.
They robbed JonBenet of her life even before she was killed.

Really good post.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Imo, Patsy saw JonBenet as a possession, at best an extension of herself that she wanted to compete in pageants til she made it to Miss America. It was never about what JonBenet wanted.

I've seen a lot of documentaries about child beauty pageants since the Ramset murder, and it seems to me that most children are doing it at their parents' behest. It gives them all of the wrong ideals - you aren't pretty enough with missing baby teeth, so here are some fake teeth to wear. Your hair isn't lovely enough with just its normal color, so we'll dye it and highlight it and tease it up and spray it til you look like a Vegas showgirl. Your natural skin color, not tan enough. We'll just spray you with fake tanner so you look like you've been laying out in the sun. Your clothing - forget it. You can't win with that dress from Penney's, so put on this $5000 gown covered in sequins and crinoline, and make sure to whip off the train seductively and pose with it so the judges know you can work with a prop. Here comes your "talent" number...the judges want to see you smile coyly and bat your eyelashes while peering out them from the corner of your eye while turning slowly in a tight circle and glancing back over your shoulder.

What is that teaching young girls? And Patsy had to realize it was wrong to pimp her daughter out like that, or else she wouldn't have lied and claimed it was just a few weekends a year that they did pageants instead of admitting that she spending thousands of dollars on entry fees, hairstylists, make up artists, clothing, dance and voice lessons...it makes my stomach turn to think that JonBenet was little more than a live doll for her mother to play with.

 

[concernedperson]

Well, she wasn't alive very much after the exploitation was she? She failed to represent her mother in the best regards. I am sorry but this is a very bad case of child abuse with her mother being the beneficiary.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<You may see them as "precocious Lolitas" but most of us see them as cute little girls getting to play dress up. Getting to sing and dance in front of people. Gaining skills and experience some girls may never have the chance at.

Or maybe like our moslum friends we should hide our women and girls away because of their disgustingly suggestive bodies.>>

Why did they have to bleach JB's hair when a child's natural hair color is beautiful and full of highlights?

Why did they dress her in skimpy costumes with high cut leotards?

Why was she in full makeup?

Why the bump and grind dance routine?

My child is beautiful with her own hair color in little girl type clothes. She has not been trained to shake hips she doesn't have. The only lipstick she wears is a lip balm. Her complexion is perfect without any rouge. Her eyes do not need mascara or eyeliner.

I do not have to put her in a burka or hide her away behind a veil. She is innocent and perfect the way she is.

 

[Linda7NJ]

<<You may see them as "precocious Lolitas" but most of us see them as cute little girls getting to play dress up. Getting to sing and dance in front of people. Gaining skills and experience some girls may never have the chance at.

Or maybe like our moslum friends we should hide our women and girls away because of their disgustingly suggestive bodies.>>

Why did they have to bleach JB's hair when a child's natural hair color is beautiful and full of highlights?

Why did they dress her in skimpy costumes with high cut leotards?

Why was she in full makeup?

Why the bump and grind dance routine?

My child is beautiful with her own hair color in little girl type clothes. She has not been trained to shake hips she doesn't have. The only lipstick she wears is a lip balm. Her complexion is perfect without any rouge. Her eyes do not need mascara or eyeliner.

I do not have to put her in a burka or hide her away behind a veil. She is innocent and perfect the way she is.

I guess you've missed little girls cheer leading & ballet? It's simply an activity. I still see nothing wrong with it. It's a competition like so many other children's activities. To win a child must meet the criteria. A dress from Penny's & a freshly scrubbed face and a toothless grin isn't gonna cut it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

<<You may see them as "precocious Lolitas" but most of us see them as cute little girls getting to play dress up. Getting to sing and dance in front of people. Gaining skills and experience some girls may never have the chance at.

Or maybe like our moslum friends we should hide our women and girls away because of their disgustingly suggestive bodies.>>

Why did they have to bleach JB's hair when a child's natural hair color is beautiful and full of highlights?

Why did they dress her in skimpy costumes with high cut leotards?

Why was she in full makeup?

Why the bump and grind dance routine?

My child is beautiful with her own hair color in little girl type clothes. She has not been trained to shake hips she doesn't have. The only lipstick she wears is a lip balm. Her complexion is perfect without any rouge. Her eyes do not need mascara or eyeliner.

I do not have to put her in a burka or hide her away behind a veil. She is innocent and perfect the way she is.

Do you feel it's wrong for her to play dress up?

 

[concernedperson]

I guess you've missed little girls cheer leading & ballet? It's simply an activity. I still see nothing wrong with it. It's a competition like so many other children's activities. To win a child must meet the criteria. A dress from Penny's & a freshly scrubbed face and a toothless grin isn't gonna cut it.

Well, I am sorry it does meet it. I think little girls are cute. I think their toothless grins are exceptional. I love kids and all of their endeavors. Even if they are balletless and don't do cheerleading. Even if they fall on their butts trying to please someone else.They deserve every bit of our support and anything less is brutal. What the hell are you supporting? Get with the program.....kids are more importent than the breath you take.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, I am sorry it does meet it. I think little girls are cute. I think their toothless grins are exceptional. I love kids and all of their endeavors. Even if they are balletless and don't do cheerleading. Even if they fall on their butts trying to please someone else.They deserve every bit of our support and anything less is brutal. What the hell are you supporting? Get with the program.....kids are more importent than the breath you take.

:waitasec: I happen to like toothless 7 year olds, I like kids.... I think they are adorable in their natural state ( with the exception of snot filled noses in the winter...that just skeeves me !)

I don't have girls, but if I did I wouldn't be all uptight over it. I don't care for the super short shorts with words like HOT or SEXY written across the butt, because it looks ridiculous, not because I think they actually make the child look hot or sexy.

What the hell am I supporting? I'll tell you what I am NOT supporting and that's the notion that a 6 year old could ever be sexy!!!

You can dress up a cow, but it's still a cow. Anyone that's turned on by that cow dressed up was attracted to cows to begin with YKWIM?

 

[concernedperson]

:waitasec: I happen to like toothless 7 year olds, I like kids.... I think they are adorable in their natural state ( with the exception of snot filled noses in the winter...that just skeeves me !)

I don't have girls, but if I did I wouldn't be all uptight over it. I don't care for the super short shorts with words like HOT or SEXY written across the butt, because it looks ridiculous, not because I think they actually make the child look hot or sexy.

What the hell am I supporting? I'll tell you what I am NOT supporting and that's the notion that a 6 year old could ever be sexy!!!

You can dress up a cow, but it's still a cow. Anyone that's turned on by that cow dressed up was attracted to cows to begin with YKWIM?

I think we are on the same page and emotions are on overload. I am sorry for misinterpreting your post. I understand now what you were trying to say.