Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[Fortune Cookie]

This is the quandary of this case. So many conflicts such as "3 guys saw CG talking to someone in a car but didn't recall it being a taxi". Taxi is by far the obvious reason why the girls got in the car, but if that car never came forward then it's likely that was the CSK, and as far as we know it wasn't a taxi.

If we use SR as an example (because he's the poster boy for taxi driver POI's) then he would have to have a link to Claremont. Maybe it's as simple as Claremont was his taxi driving patch so he kept the same familiar patch for killing?

Do we know if Stevo's go-to patch was Claremont? Do WAPOL know the identities of all taxi drivers at the time whose patch was Claremont?

My issue with Judoman is that although he ticks all my profile boxes, he doesn't have a taxi. Is it possible he had a fake taxi? Two completely different suspects who have half the jigsaw puzzle each. I'm aso struggling to see the CSK being outside the core suspects because I think the reason he stopped was due to police scrutiny.

But if the CSK is vaguely known to all 3 women, surely the taxi theory could be discarded? I'm really stuck on the taxi thing. It makes sense, but with no real evidence or facts available to us, then its hard to commit as the method of pickup. It seems the obvious method, but I just can't shake the feeling that if there is a common acquaintance between all 3 and the CSK, then that would explain why they would get in a car with him. Particularly if he's youngish, vaguely acquainted, reasonable looking, charming, charismatic etc. Has anybody seen a picture of SR? I'd like to know what he looks like.

I feel that if it was a single killer then he was meticulous and probably stalked these girls as a 'type'. He would have waited for an opportune moment and seized it. Being highly meticulous, organised and focused, he would have waited for the perfect moment, not just a snatch and grab. He would know where they hang out, who they hang out with and probably a whole lot more than that. Focusing on what his motivation for the killings would also probably make it a bit clearer. But of course, we don't have that information so can only surmise it was enjoyment, thrill, lust and power. The majority of SK (nearly 50%) are motivated by this. Less common is anger (less than 10% of SK are motivated by this.)

The 'type' of victims he has chosen will usually represent a significant female in his life. If we typecast the girls as young, blonde, well heeled, educated, vivacious, outgoing and similar in appearance to somebody he has lost or devalued then who fits this profile?

What more do we know about Judoman?

 

[Shadowboxer]

This is the quandary of this case. So many conflicts such as "3 guys saw CG talking to someone in a car but didn't recall it being a taxi". Taxi is by far the obvious reason why the girls got in the car, but if that car never came forward then it's likely that was the CSK, and as far as we know it wasn't a taxi.

Got to remember there were alleged reports of sightings further on... She may not have got in that car.

 

[Shadowboxer]

But if the CSK is vaguely known to all 3 women, surely the taxi theory could be discarded? I'm really stuck on the taxi thing. It makes sense, but with no real evidence or facts available to us, then its hard to commit as the method of pickup. It seems the obvious method, but I just can't shake the feeling that if there is a common acquaintance between all 3 and the CSK, then that would explain why they would get in a car with him. Particularly if he's youngish, vaguely acquainted, reasonable looking, charming, charismatic etc. Has anybody seen a picture of SR? I'd like to know what he looks like.

I feel that if it was a single killer then he was meticulous and probably stalked these girls as a 'type'.

My feeling is that if there was a connection to all three woman, macro would have been all over it and it would be solved. I think the only connection is they were all unlucky enough to jump in the wrong taxi. SS calls taxi, someone with taxi is watching, see's the opportunity, pulls up. SS would not have thought twice about hopping in. Stun gun to disable then somewhere to whatever....

 

[billywhizz]

Eight years later, in 2004 SR is interrogated by police who were adamant he was delivering girls to PW. "PW wanted young girls".

How does something like this even come up? Where there is smoke there is fire? What was the intelligence they had that he was not just a POI and that they could raid his house? He then lawyered up with not one, but two lawyers.

Why did they interrogate SR the day before they raided PW house? Surely this would give SR time to alert PW?

If you drive up Stirling Hwy towards Freo from Stirling Rd intersection in Claremont (SS and CG last sighting), PW has property on third street on the left (first actual real road that doesn't go in a loop).

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Yeah SB, I've spent so much time thinking about the taxi thing. LE were all over the taxi thing from the get-go. Then they were all over LW. Then it was SR and PW. The taxi theory stands to reason, but I'm just not convinced. There seems to have been too much focus on individual scenarios by LE than looking at the whole picture from afar and really drilling down who/what type of SK this is.

If the CSK was stalking his victims (highly likely) then watching from afar and seizing the opportunity to pick them up before a taxi got to them seems like a reasonable explanation. SR seems to not fit the profile for a highly organised, blend in to the crowd kinda guy. He seems to be too dumb to carry out any plan. I don't think these were opportune moments of randomness. I truly believe they were chosen victims.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

BW, I think the police bumbled their way through this whole investigation from the start.
With Caporn in charge and his cronies alongside, there's high motivation to save face and get a quick and clean arrest. It reeks of desperation and incompetence.

 

[perthite]

I believe the SR/PW raids in 2004 were either right in the middle of, or at the conclusion of, the Paul Schramm case review.

Interesting timing.

 

[Bartholemeus]

But if the CSK is vaguely known to all 3 women, surely the taxi theory could be discarded?

Yep, but there's no evidence anyone knows all three. Judoman apparently knew SS reasonably well, met JR a few times and no evidence he knew CG. But he certainly may have. She went to UWA, he did judo at UWA. They may have met.

Has anybody seen a picture of SR? I'd like to know what he looks like.

He's not young, good looking, charming or charismatic. Conversely he pisses in eskies and tasers cats.

What more do we know about Judoman?

Lived locally, very successful, single, allegedly lied in polygraph.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Got to remember there were alleged reports of sightings further on... She may not have got in that car.

I think that's a low percentage though. The car never came forward. Perhaps an anomally but the car from SS never came forward either.

 

[AngelJoan]

Does anyone know if the killer/s kept the girls hair?

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Oh I keep waivering all over the place with the whole group theory thing, then back to a single killer.
Today I'm thinking JM is a highly likely candidate. He totally fits the 'profile' and has had himself 'inserted' into the scene by way of CIA show, which would have thrilled him no end.
Off to research him a bit more!

 

[perthite]

Is he married?

He is - with kids born in the late 90's or early 00's by the looks.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Does anybody know what year CG graduated from UWA? I see there is a scholarship at UWA in her name, but I can't seem to find what year she graduated. Judoman graduated in 1991, so it's highly likely they 'knew' each other.

 

[perthite]

Does anybody know what year CG graduated from UWA? I see there is a scholarship at UWA in her name, but I can't seem to find what year she graduated. Judoman graduated in 1991, so it's highly likely they 'knew' each other.

We'd touched on this previously. If she was born in 1970 and went straight to uni out of school she would have started in 1988 and graduated in 1990 or 91. I think it's safe to assume they were there at the same time.

 

[AngelJoan]

Does anyone know if the killer/s kept the girls hair?

 

[perthite]

There's probably lecture crossover in those degrees also. Commerce, ethics etc

 

[Shadowboxer]

Eight years later, in 2004 SR is interrogated by police who were adamant he was delivering girls to PW. "PW wanted young girls".

How does something like this even come up? Where there is smoke there is fire? What was the intelligence they had that he was not just a POI and that they could raid his house? He then lawyered up with not one, but two lawyers.

Why did they interrogate SR the day before they raided PW house? Surely this would give SR time to alert PW?

But wasn't SR a POI from the very beginning after claiming to have SS in his car?

Because after they raided SR they were watching PW under a microscope to see if he done any cleaning etc?

 

[Shadowboxer]

I'd be interested to see Macro's top five. Here's mine
1. SR
2. SR and PW
3. JM
4. Droc
5. Snuff crew

I'm staying with the taxi theory. Whoever done this had access to or had a fake taxi. I don't believe he knew all the victims and had watched them from a distance. What are the odds he'd be watching them for the amount of time it took to get them out in Claremont waiting for a ride? Seems an awful lot of stalking. To much evidence points to the taxi.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Yeah I can see why you think the taxi is significant and yet serial killers who are able to plan enough to dispose of bodies without detection rarely blitz attack. There's 'generally' 2 types of SK. Organised and disorganised.
Blitz attacks usually occur in an opportune moment and the body is disposed of close by and randomly with little thought to hiding the body. The SK gets what they need from the kill and they move on. These are disorganised kills.
Organised SK generally plan, stalk (intensively) and move when the opportunity presents itself to capture and subdue the victim, move to the place of ritual and then dispose of the body carefully.
So while the police say 'blitz attack', that then precludes the taxi theory because it doesn't doesn't work with the way the bodies were disposed of and the fact that there has been no arrest. Little to no DNA evidence despite the fact that DNA had been usable for a good 10 years. It seems planned and methodical. So while a 'taxi' could work for a blitz attack, it doesn't seem to add up with the body disposal and lack of DNA evidence.
I don't know... just surmising on a Friday night with wine!

 

[Jezz]

Does anyone know if the killer/s kept the girls hair?

It's ine of those details that has never been confirmed but I remember hearing that he did in the early days of the investigation. Actually I heard it quite a bit in the early days, so I guess it's possible.

Why?