Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #2

[Force Ten]

Imo, that is not what Melissa was saying.

It's clear no prosecutor has the burden of proof when it comes to the murder location.

The state is allowed to have a THEORY based on what the gravesite evidence shows them. Imes layed out that theory using the compelling evidence showing it is a very reasonable logical conclusion.

What Melissa told the jury is true. The state has never told them conclusively they know for sure it DID happen inside their home, and no where else.

She even used the examples the DT putforth about it coulda..might have, may have happened on the 5th, and murdered else where.

Melissa even showed the jury how unreasonable that DT assumption is based on what was found at the gravesite along, and on the bodies.

No one was there when CM murdered them all. Like most all murderers they do their violent deeds in the secrecy of darkness without any living eye witnesses.

The jury can come to their own conclusions as to where it may have happened.

The state even told them that, and 6 can believe it happened in the home, 6 can believe it happened else where. Etc.

They do not have to have unanimous opinions on where it happened, what, how, exactly when or even why it happened.

None of those things are burdens the state must prove. They clearly laid out the legal burden required under law in the state's closing to the jury.

Imo, even before being selected to serve as a juror they were told the legally required burden they are there to decide. Imes mentioned that in his closing.

The jury knows they are not there to decide where, when, how, what or even what the motive happened to be.

They clearly know they are there to decide one thing only. Is CM guilty BARD of murdering all four members of the McStay family.

It's the same sole legal burden of proof in any murder case for all prosecutors in every state.

It includes all missing body murder cases where all of those other things remained uknown nor were they required for any defendant to be convicted BARD.

Jmho

Absolutely true about how or where the murders occurred. But I think the defense's core argument is to challenge opportunity. That is why they put forth the theory the murders happened on the 5th, in the morning and they were all whisked away by multiple people, Dan included. This is even more laughable due to Dan's lack extreme lack of opportunity. There's no plausibility in this. Does Dan know enough young dudes willing to extinguish a whole family, including two young boys?

Or does a hardened criminal likely have more callousness and grit to do the deed?

Who are you more apt to let in your home, have access to your emails, business, family, children? Joseph made some very poor choices and it caught up with him.

So did chase merritt.

 

[Niner]

Your numbers are correct. Juror #5 was a male who had work commitments so he was released. Unless the replacement was a female we're still at 7 men women and 5 women men split but I'm pretty sure the alternate chosen is a male.

ETA: Remaining alternates were 2 males and 1 female.

I corrected what you said in that other post (men vs women)! Thank you!

 

[Niner]

@Mica - does it say in the court site if court starts 9am or 9:30am?

TIA!

 

[asyousay]

If Chase isn’t guilty then how do you explain away the fact his best friend vanished off the face of the planet and he didn’t make any effort to find him?

We have seen the phone records he made very few attempts to reach Joey. He didn’t go to the cops but instead blamed the family for his own short comings in regards to family being missing.

IMO

 

[Mica]

@Mica - does it say in the court site if court starts 9am or 9:30am?

TIA!

Hi Niner.

9:00 AM for June 3rd

 

[Niner]

Hi Niner.

9:00 AM for June 3rd

a bunch Mica!!

 

[Tortoise]

@Mica - does it say in the court site if court starts 9am or 9:30am?

TIA!

I think I heard somewhere, not sure where, that one of the jurors has an appointment first thing on Monday and it will be a late start, around 10'ish IIRC. Anyone else hear that?

 

[Tortoise]

If Chase isn’t guilty then how do you explain away the fact his best friend vanished off the face of the planet and he didn’t make any effort to find him?

We have seen the phone records he made very few attempts to reach Joey. He didn’t go to the cops but instead blamed the family for his own short comings in regards to family being missing.

IMO

You'd think they'd have asked him why he backdated the cheques, instead of trying to prove they were dated by the QB program to the 4th, and then when that didn't work INVENTING that he backdated them because that's when he got the cheques. If it's not evident that the defense case is pure fiction and fabrication, I don't know what is.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, and MR did an excellent closing arguments for the state, laying out precisely what the jurors need to focus on when they deliberate. I really can't see the jury should have too many problems in coming to a unanimous verdict because the evidence was presented in a very understandable and no nonsense way. IMO.

Ita my friend.

Both Imes, and Melissa showed them all of the links, one by one to conclusively show them CM, and no others is guilty BARD.

The state told them to rely on their own common sense, and life experiences. They will.

Imo, they all know this was not how a best friend reacts when their best friend, and family vanishes without a trace.

Imo, they will also know best friends do not steal from their best friend before or after they vanish.

What has been shown clearly by the state is no one on this earth knew the McStays had vanished on the 4th except Charles Merritt.

His whereabouts, actions before, and afterwards, and his inactions shows it to be 100% true.

Imho

 

[Niner]

I think I heard somewhere, not sure where, that one of the jurors has an appointment first thing on Monday and it will be a late start, around 10'ish IIRC. Anyone else hear that?

Well then - I'll have to keep checking this thread, eh? LOL! If you do - or anyone else here for that matter - hear the time it starts - please just "tag" me! TIA!

I need to keep my notes up-to-date! I'm a Virgo....

 

[Mony Mony]

I think I heard somewhere, not sure where, that one of the jurors has an appointment first thing on Monday and it will be a late start, around 10'ish IIRC. Anyone else hear that?

I heard that too.

 

[Hte2w8]

The poll suggested would be a complete guess as to how 12 people no one here knows will be thinking.

That would be a poll then on how 12 strangers interpreted the evidence, or their level of understanding? How informative would that be - would it be decided by the expected level of the jurors' IQs, or their age/gender/life experience, whether they liked the attorneys, whether they're annoyed about how they've been treated over 5 months, or how some other jury on some completely different case returned an unexpected verdict?

How does one vote on 12 strangers' opinions without basing it on one's own own opinion of the case?

No poll can be accurate - that would have to include questions and rely on honest answers, including some who may have an agenda signing up to disrupt the poll, such as have you listened to all the evidence, what is your understanding of reasonable and unreasonable doubt, what is your understanding and belief about circumstantial evidence, did you start out at the beginning of trial with a particular bias, did you know about the case before trial started, etc etc.

If you are on a jury and the prosecution hasn't proven the case to you "beyond a reasonable doubt" it is a vote of not guilty, it's not a vote of "hung jury".

Why doesn't someone start that poll on how the 12 strangers, unknown entities, will vote? Isn't it more a poll on jury behaviour? What is the difficulty in voting based on one's own opinion? Is it doubts that are really not 'reasonable' doubts, or is it based on one's self-doubt? Some might be that way inclined - to doubt their own decisions and dislike making judgments. It would be more useful to my mind to discuss those individual doubts here and resolve that, as the jury will be doing.

JMO

It's about how a jury of ones "peers" sees a case...a case that most people here think is a no brainier. To ME, because that's whose opinion I was expressing, the end result comparison of the two would tell ME a lot about the case and how strong the evidence truly was, and how easily assimilated, or not, it was. For ME it gives me some data to analyze and, with jury polling, helps paint a picture for ME to look at perception vs reality. The first poll is perception of people with above average knowledge of the case, the second poll is how those people think a JURY sees the case, and the end result of the case gives me a chance see reality. It may not make sense to you, but that type of info helps me.

 

[mrjitty]

Absolutely true about how or where the murders occurred. But I think the defense's core argument is to challenge opportunity. That is why they put forth the theory the murders happened on the 5th, in the morning and they were all whisked away by multiple people, Dan included. This is even more laughable due to Dan's lack extreme lack of opportunity. There's no plausibility in this. Does Dan know enough young dudes willing to extinguish a whole family, including two young boys?

Or does a hardened criminal likely have more callousness and grit to do the deed?

Who are you more apt to let in your home, have access to your emails, business, family, children? Joseph made some very poor choices and it caught up with him.

So did chase merritt.

Re Dan

The defence has to show a reasonable possibility DK did it

The Judge allowed too much wild speculation

Surprised malone didn't take the stand himself to testify on behalf of chase

 

[MissJames]

Morning MissJames!

Imo, the experts will be a wash.

The expert opinions will not decide this case one way or the other.

The jury will use all of the other overwhelming CE facts that are not based on only individual differing expert opinions.

Imo

I hope you’re right ! Sounds logical to me .

 

[Karinna]

I wonder what weight the jurors will give to the fact Merritt was a previous felon?

 

[MissJames]

I think I heard somewhere, not sure where, that one of the jurors has an appointment first thing on Monday and it will be a late start, around 10'ish IIRC. Anyone else hear that?

I just recall JS telling them they could now keep their own schedule without asking permission . What could go wrong ? SMH

 

[Hte2w8]

I wonder what weight the jurors will give to the fact Merritt was a previous felon?

I also wonder this. Jury instructions aside, I wonder how many jurors will allow information that may not be allowed, or considered, to influence their decision. If you have ever been in a position similar to that of a prosecutor or defense, you know that what you are about to say or evidence you are trying to introduce will probably draw an objection, but you also know it's a matter of not being able to unring that bell after the jury, panel, board etc has heard it.

 

[Karinna]

I also wonder this. Jury instructions aside, I wonder how many jurors will allow information that may not be allowed, or considered, to influence their decision. If you have ever been in a position similar to that of a prosecutor or defense, you know that what you are about to say or evidence you are trying to introduce will probably draw an objection, but you also know it's a matter of not being able to unring that bell after the jury, panel, board etc has heard it.

Yes that's true, but i think it was the DT that initially opened that door in their Opening statements, so fair game then for the Prosecution.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Personally I dont think much can be learned from our own opinion polls here or elsewhere.

WS have had these kind of polls a long time. What they represent or don't... really doesnt give a glimpse into what any jury may do when rendering their verdict.

If it was a reliable deciding factor then every jury trial followed here would windup with a hung jury which rarely happens.

Every poll I've seen here always includes NG votes along with the vast majority voting Guilty.

Most verdicts rendered by juries are unanimous verdicts one way or the other.

Jmho

 

[smr]

If Chase isn’t guilty then how do you explain away the fact his best friend vanished off the face of the planet and he didn’t make any effort to find him?

We have seen the phone records he made very few attempts to reach Joey. He didn’t go to the cops but instead blamed the family for his own short comings in regards to family being missing.

IMO

Wasn't Chase the one that alerted Mike, who was the brother of the victim, and insisted that Mike go and check on his brother?