CO CO - Christopher Abeyta, 7 mos, Colorado Springs, 15 July 1986

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denalves said:
There is a lot in your comment, but interesting observations. I agree strongly with your statement, "Emotional or financial forces, and to be honest, both could be in play."

There were no caregivers/babysitters for my sister with down's syndrome. Christopher was absolutely the biological son of my mom and dad.

The trophy was won by Christopher's father at a baseball game he participated in, in the previous weeks before his abduction.

Your statement, "The sick person makes others mentally disturbed by lying and deceiving and women often will use sexual means to gain or try to gain control of a situation which is very important to them." I found this article Helpful Hints: Psychopathic Behavior - PoliceLink
especially beneficial because it discusses how someone could get other people to get involved in his or her behavior, crimes, and rescue.

"Police officers should very carefully consider as a possible psychopath the criminal who is able to involve many people in his or her behavior, crimes, and rescue."

"Ordinary lawbreakers will avoid the police and not volunteer to help them solve crimes. On the other hand, psychopaths often see their criminal activities as a game between themselves and the police....."

"Ordinary lawbreakers generally maintain some creed of loyalty to friends, family, or even to their opposition to society. However, psychopaths are uncommitted, with loyalty to no one and no sincerely held attitudes for or against anything."

"Review the arrest record. Psychopaths’ rap sheets will reflect a variety of crimes. Because of their immature need for immediate gratification, these persons’ crimes are extremely unpredictable.

"Well-integrated and functioning psychopaths can usually beat a lie detector (polygraph), or at least produce an inconclusive result (Reese 1987)."

"Speech is often used to conceal thoughts. This is certainly true of psychopaths. They are completely capable of responding to vague questions with vague answers and to concrete questions with concrete answers. In this way, they are often able to persuade themselves that they are telling the truth."
Click to expand...

Hi, and thanks for replying.

When I started to ask about your sister possibly having a caregiver who might have gone to school with her and so forth, I had wanted to go into much greater detail about the sheer number of people children are exposed to. A family with what I consider to be " many children of all ages" would have a huge footprint of adults and teens who had access to their children still at home, don't you agree, in hindsight as one of those children?
Sometimes a baby is stolen because a woman is infertile and wants a baby and doesn't think any further than that one want, or a little fragile baby is accidentally killed by an acquaintance who was NOT a malicious person but who is obviously the worst kind of coward, and who, if covered up an accidental death of an infant, has lived with a ton of guilt and remorse for over 30 years. Does anyone you'd have considered " nice to your family" fit that description?
Specifically please exclude E. B., please, but not necessarily her friends or relatives if they were allowed to be around you children.

I'm sure all of you were really pretty children, but the photos of Christopher show an unusually beautiful little boy. For that reason, more than any other, I think that because he went missing just before IVF and other fertility specialities were available but after it was very difficult to adopt young babies, there is a small possibility that he could be the exception, and could be alive.
Crime statistics say not, that only 1/ 100th of 1% of very young children ( babies) who are reported missing as babies are found alive, and that's so tragically sad. They are the most helpless and vulnerable of all our society. I wish more could have been done to find him when he disappeared. Today, I think it would be different for you and your family. I'm so very sorry this happened to every one of you and every other person who loved your family.
 
<modsnipped quoted post>
No. They traveled to Mexico several years after Christopher's disappearance to follow through on a lead. They even helped the FBI with another missing persons case on one of the trips made. My parents have been available, cooperative and an open book for law enforcement officials.
Here is a link of Inside Edition where my parents helped facilitate getting two children back to their parents.
 
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Gunslinging Granny said:
There is not a quote from a detective or member of the police stating that there is a person of interest and it's someone the family has suspected for years in any article. There is only supposition from a reporter.
Click to expand...
"Lt. Howard Black, public information officer of the Colorado Springs Police Department, told ABC News that the case of Christopher Abeyta is an ongoing, active investigation that is being worked through the cold case unit of homicide and missing persons. A person of interest has been named in the case, he said."
 
denalves said:
There is a lot in your comment, but interesting observations. I agree strongly with your statement, "Emotional or financial forces, and to be honest, both could be in play."

There were no caregivers/babysitters for my sister with down's syndrome. Christopher was absolutely the biological son of my mom and dad.

The trophy was won by Christopher's father at a baseball game he participated in, in the previous weeks before his abduction.

Your statement, "The sick person makes others mentally disturbed by lying and deceiving and women often will use sexual means to gain or try to gain control of a situation which is very important to them." I found this article Helpful Hints: Psychopathic Behavior - PoliceLink
especially beneficial because it discusses how someone could get other people to get involved in his or her behavior, crimes, and rescue.

"Police officers should very carefully consider as a possible psychopath the criminal who is able to involve many people in his or her behavior, crimes, and rescue."

"Ordinary lawbreakers will avoid the police and not volunteer to help them solve crimes. On the other hand, psychopaths often see their criminal activities as a game between themselves and the police....."

"Ordinary lawbreakers generally maintain some creed of loyalty to friends, family, or even to their opposition to society. However, psychopaths are uncommitted, with loyalty to no one and no sincerely held attitudes for or against anything."

"Review the arrest record. Psychopaths’ rap sheets will reflect a variety of crimes. Because of their immature need for immediate gratification, these persons’ crimes are extremely unpredictable.

"Well-integrated and functioning psychopaths can usually beat a lie detector (polygraph), or at least produce an inconclusive result (Reese 1987)."

"Speech is often used to conceal thoughts. This is certainly true of psychopaths. They are completely capable of responding to vague questions with vague answers and to concrete questions with concrete answers. In this way, they are often able to persuade themselves that they are telling the truth."
Click to expand...

Thank you for clearing up where the trophy originated. It could have been important if your little brother had been in the very active beauty pageant circuit which did include baby boys.

As far as what an Anti-Social Personality disordered person will do to gain trust, sympathy, information, absolution, be considered an " insider", be considered to be reputable and honest, there are NO LIMITS to what they will do and can do, often right in front of smart people who still don't pick up on it.
My second career was in Behavioral Psychology and what I posted about a person trying to make friends and be considered to be an attractive shoulder to lean on at the tragic time your brother went missing likely did happen, whether the person had any involvement with his disappearance or not.

She had been shut out in a large way when your father returned home, so she would definitely have sought other ways to be " close to" members of your family, both adult and children old enough to talk and hear things they would innocently pass along. There is no guilt or shame in not recognizing a psychopath when the other person or people are good trusting honest people. Never feel guilty for the trust anyone might have had in that person or someone else who really wasn't " good", regardless of your loyalty to them as a child, or as an adult either.
 
SeekingJana said:
Because white, blue eyed blonde children are a rarity in Mexico.
Also, it is a myth that " all who live in Mexico are poverty- striken" if that's what you mean.

Did any of you see the article in the current news about the American young woman who died on board the multi-billionaire Mexican national's yacht this past week? He was told to leave the boat where it was, off a Greek island, I believe, but he has FLED back to Mexico. She was a gorgeous white, blue eyed blonde of only 20 years.

Last thing: I don't have any reason to believe Christopher Abeyta was taken to Mexico and sold, but if it was done by the person the family is suspecting, then she may even have had access to his birth certificate, having lived with the father when the baby was born.
The surname of Abeyta might also help get him into central America's wealthiest filthiest hands as well. Once he was sold out of Central America, his name would have been changed, of course.

( Note- I don't think this is what happened but am willing to consider other options for the sake of rational discussion.)
Click to expand...
I vacation in Mexico frequently and understand that not all Mexicans live in poverty. That said, it is very well known that there are tens of thousands of unsupervised Mexican children running around in the streets of Mexican cities. There is no need for anyone to pay for a child in Mexico when someone can easily grab a child off the streets.
 
SeekingJana said:
Hi, and thanks for replying.

When I started to ask about your sister possibly having a caregiver who might have gone to school with her and so forth, I had wanted to go into much greater detail about the sheer number of people children are exposed to. A family with what I consider to be " many children of all ages" would have a huge footprint of adults and teens who had access to their children still at home, don't you agree, in hindsight as one of those children?
Sometimes a baby is stolen because a woman is infertile and wants a baby and doesn't think any further than that one want, or a little fragile baby is accidentally killed by an acquaintance who was NOT a malicious person but who is obviously the worst kind of coward, and who, if covered up an accidental death of an infant, has lived with a ton of guilt and remorse for over 30 years. Does anyone you'd have considered " nice to your family" fit that description?
Specifically please exclude E. B., please, but not necessarily her friends or relatives if they were allowed to be around you children.

I'm sure all of you were really pretty children, but the photos of Christopher show an unusually beautiful little boy. For that reason, more than any other, I think that because he went missing just before IVF and other fertility specialities were available but after it was very difficult to adopt young babies, there is a small possibility that he could be the exception, and could be alive.
Crime statistics say not, that only 1/ 100th of 1% of very young children ( babies) who are reported missing as babies are found alive, and that's so tragically sad. They are the most helpless and vulnerable of all our society. I wish more could have been done to find him when he disappeared. Today, I think it would be different for you and your family. I'm so very sorry this happened to every one of you and every other person who loved your family.
Click to expand...
 
When you have a child go missing and you don't know who is responsible you look at everyone and I can assure you everyone was looked at. There are very few infants who have been taken from their cribs in the middle of the night while sleeping. I agree with you that usually crimes are done by someone known to the victim, well Christopher was so young, then you would look at who was inside his family circle. Who was new in their lives? Why that night..what was different about that night? If you haven't yet gone to Christopher's facebook page Christopher Abeyta or website www.findchristopher.com for additional information about his case I encourage you to do so.

A podcast discussing his case can be found on thevanishedpodcast, it's a two part series.
 
I'm not a member of FB and although I can read the FB page regarding Christopher, I cannot find any photo of the man who believes he is Christopher Abeyta. Why is the man more or less hiding his face?

Is he having DNA testing done against Christopher's known DNA or through mDNA with one or more of Christopher's siblings by a LE agency?

I can say I'm Marilyn Monroe's lost love child with one of the famous men in her life, but unless forensic lab DNA proves the same, I'm just a lying liar who lied to the public, to anyone who might be a distant heir of Ms. Monroe, etc. ( I would never do any of the above, but the point is that it's one thing to make a claim and upset or give false hope to a family and another to get LE to collect the DNA and have it tested in an approved forensic lab).
 
Gunslinging Granny said:
I vacation in Mexico frequently and understand that not all Mexicans live in poverty. That said, it is very well known that there are tens of thousands of unsupervised Mexican children running around in the streets of Mexican cities. There is no need for anyone to pay for a child in Mexico when someone can easily grab a child off the streets.
Click to expand...

How many of them are white, blonde blue eyed babies too young to remember a thing about their lives with their biological families? You said " Running around in the streets", so that excludes Christopher by age alone.

It's the ethnicity which would have been the draw. He would have been a very light colored white baby in a world of darker skinned Latino children. I am not a racist. But it cannot be ignored that he was definitely fair in appearance like his mother and some of his sisters.
I will not be repeating this point again as I think it is very clear why he would be both different and extremely valuable because of those differences in appearance.
 
SeekingJana said:
Thank you for clearing up where the trophy originated. It could have been important if your little brother had been in the very active beauty pageant circuit which did include baby boys.

As far as what an Anti-Social Personality disordered person will do to gain trust, sympathy, information, absolution, be considered an " insider", be considered to be reputable and honest, there are NO LIMITS to what they will do and can do, often right in front of smart people who still don't pick up on it.
My second career was in Behavioral Psychology and what I posted about a person trying to make friends and be considered to be an attractive shoulder to lean on at the tragic time your brother went missing likely did happen, whether the person had any involvement with his disappearance or not.

She had been shut out in a large way when your father returned home, so she would definitely have sought other ways to be " close to" members of your family, both adult and children old enough to talk and hear things they would innocently pass along. There is no guilt or shame in not recognizing a psychopath when the other person or people are good trusting honest people. Never feel guilty for the trust anyone might have had in that person or someone else who really wasn't " good", regardless of your loyalty to them as a child, or as an adult either.
Click to expand...

The weeks leading up to my brother's disappearance my parents had been reconciling and as a matter of fact the night that trophy was won, we were all at the baseball game (Christopher was there also). We know for sure my family was being stalked. The stalker likely saw us all together and Christopher was always the center of attention. Anyone who watched us would have known that and known the hurt that would have been caused by taking him.

I feel like there may be people out there that didn't realize they were being used, and it took them some time, but may feel reluctant to come forward now, so I need to convey exactly what you said about no guilt or shame in not recognizing someone who really wasn't a good person.
 
Gunslinging Granny said:
Before blaming EB, Bernice Abeyta blamed the person who signed Christopher’s birth certificate for stealing him.
THE DISAPPEARANCE OF CHRISTOPHER
Click to expand...
It shows you the depths my parents went to INVESTIGATE EVERYONE based on FACTS, not just randomly "blaming" someone. If there was any reason to believe someone whom was associated to my family could have potentially been capable of taking Christopher, they were looked at. And rest assured those people were investigated thoroughly. My parents did not have tunnel vision, they followed through on every lead and sighting. Christopher was very lucky to have them as parents.
 
This is one of the very reason's why Christopher's case has not had resolution. Det Hilty was one of the original detectives and we believe a myopic view was formed as you can see from his statement. My mom had absolutely nothing to hide and it was unbelievable that the the initial detectives were not investigating other suspects. The majority of the quotes are from my mom -- the public would have known nothing about what was going on. And the article you quote from 1986 states she failed two polygraphs...as I have already posted it wasn't until 2009 that the CSPD told me the second was inconclusive -- she assumed she failed the second because of the way the questioning went. All of these articles have been shared on Christopher's facebook page.
 
Over 3 decades ago when she took the polygraph she didn't understand why she failed it. She thought it could have been because of the xanax prescription she had been given, and she stopped the day before her polygraph. Regardless, she failed. And that is another reason initial detectives looked at her more, because back in the 80's they had more faith in polygraphs.
 
Gunslinging Granny said:
Before blaming EB, Bernice Abeyta blamed the person who signed Christopher’s birth certificate for stealing him.
THE DISAPPEARANCE OF CHRISTOPHER
Click to expand...

I read the article. It would have more impact if the birth certificate had been scanned or photographed, or if LE had given any indication of the person's character and background.

All it says which is factual is this: " Bernice Abeyta discovered that the person who had signed his birth certificate lost a baby and quit her job at the hospital the day before he disappeared and then went to Australia. She told police who contacted Australian authorities. That lead came to nothing. "

Does this mean:
1) The woman disappeared?
2) The woman was found but had no child with her?
3) The woman was found and her polygraph was negative for deception? ( which should never be considered conclusive for innocence).
4) The woman could prove she planned to move to Australia for months prior ( which is certainly a huge probability as Australia is pretty picky about whom they let in and why and for how long).
5) The woman was placed under 24 hour surveillance by Australian authorities before she was ever approached and no child was ever seen with her?
6) Something else cleared her, like she died with no child having been seen with her?

Why hasn't the family looked for the son in Australia with a health care worker who had US citizenship and a profession which allowed them access to a restricted area ( mother/ baby unit) ? Also, isn't it true that US citizens applying for either a visa or citizenship in Australia have to have secured gainful employment prior to the request being granted?
IOW, she couldn't fade into the hills with the child, if she stayed in Australia, she'd have had to work, thus should have been easy to find.

Just an observation: In the 1980s and 1990's, it was fun to go to Mexico. It was safer then, and people vacationed there often, and often cheaply due to the currency exchange rate.
It has always been expensive to fly from the US to Australia and to stay there for any length of time ( 3-4 weeks' minimum in a missing baby case, I'd think).

Was a PI ever hired to go to Australia and look for the woman who signed the birth certificate? If not, why not?

While I do not think the WaPo article was expertly written by any means, it does point out really well the amount of stress Mrs. Abeyta had been under <modsnipped- mischaracterizes information in article> afterwards until the time he disappeared. Then her perception of persecution with the polygraph and a child said to be missing, which I read elsewhere did not abate throughout the rest of her lifetime.

Also, this is the first time the baby's been described as being " thin". What medical professionals like me would call " underweight". I'm going back and look at the few full length photos we have of him.

<modsnipped>

I hope the mystery man turns out to be Christopher Abeyta, but I wouldn't place a wager on it.

Sometimes, the best thing we can achieve when a loved one dies is a peaceful closure. Family therapy can be a valuable tool to achieve this, if it's desired. I wish everyone the best, truly. No matter how it's looked at, this is a tragic situation.
Because of crucial statistics and the length of time this person has been missing with no sign of interference by a non- parent, I will not be on this forum to answer any questions or comments made. If the DNA testing is done with the male claiming to be C.A., I'll check back in.

<modsnipped> it's time for me to say " Good luck" and " I hope those who are convinced of him being alive despite no evidence to support this will take a look at the other options".

<modsnipped>

Is it factual that the court documents I found regarding a civil suit found one of the daughters ( whom I do not choose to name) guilty of defamation in 2013 or thereabouts and a judgment for a 6 figure sum was rendered to be paid in damages to " E.B." for the civil determination of defamation?
 
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SeekingJana said:
I read the article. It would have more impact if the birth certificate had been scanned or photographed, or if LE had given any indication of the person's character and background.

All it says which is factual is this: " Bernice Abeyta discovered that the person who had signed his birth certificate lost a baby and quit her job at the hospital the day before he disappeared and then went to Australia. She told police who contacted Australian authorities. That lead came to nothing. "

Does this mean:
1) The woman disappeared?
2) The woman was found but had no child with her?
3) The woman was found and her polygraph was negative for deception? ( which should never be considered conclusive for innocence).
4) The woman could prove she planned to move to Australia for months prior ( which is certainly a huge probability as Australia is pretty picky about whom they let in and why and for how long).
5) The woman was placed under 24 hour surveillance by Australian authorities before she was ever approached and no child was ever seen with her?
6) Something else cleared her, like she died with no child having been seen with her?

Why hasn't the family looked for the son in Australia with a health care worker who had US citizenship and a profession which allowed them access to a restricted area ( mother/ baby unit) ? Also, isn't it true that US citizens applying for either a visa or citizenship in Australia have to have secured gainful employment prior to the request being granted?
IOW, she couldn't fade into the hills with the child, if she stayed in Australia, she'd have had to work, thus should have been easy to find.

Just an observation: In the 1980s and 1990's, it was fun to go to Mexico. It was safer then, and people vacationed there often, and often cheaply due to the currency exchange rate.
It has always been expensive to fly from the US to Australia and to stay there for any length of time ( 3-4 weeks' minimum in a missing baby case, I'd think).

Was a PI ever hired to go to Australia and look for the woman who signed the birth certificate? If not, why not?

While I do not think the WaPo article was expertly written by any means, it does point out really well the amount of stress Mrs. Abeyta had been under before Christopher's birth and afterwards until the time he disappeared.
Also, this is the first time he's been described as being " thin". What medical professionals like me would call " underweight". I'm going back and look at the few full length photos we have of him, but at this time, I'm signing out of all this.

<modsnipped>

I hope the mystery man turns out to be Christopher Abeyta, but I wouldn't place a wager on it.

Sometimes, the best thing we can achieve when a loved one dies is a peaceful closure. Family therapy can be a valuable tool to achieve this, if it's desired. I wish everyone the best, truly. No matter how it's looked at, this is a tragic situation.
Click to expand...
The Australian lead was thoroughly checked out. Christopher's disappearance is just not another "crime story" for me. It has been my families life. I am confused about where you state she was going through a lot of stress before his birth? By the way, that article in the Washington Post was written because my mom and dad flew to Washington to meet with the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and political officials to try to get more done for missing children. She also went to the Washington Post and asked if they would share her son's story and photo. My parents did all of this before we had the tools of social media, internet, etc. It is all very amazing.
 
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She also failed the second test, which was administered by the FBI. "I felt fine during most of the questions but when he said, 'Do you know where Christopher is?' I could feel my heart start racing and I started thinking, don't do it. Christopher's life depends on this. I have to relax. This means Christopher being found. But there wasn't much I could do about it. That question, to me, that's all I think about: where's Christopher? He didn't have to tell me I failed that one.
THE DISAPPEARANCE OF CHRISTOPHER
 
SeekingJana said:
Also, this is the first time the baby's been described as being " thin". What medical professionals like me would call " underweight". I'm going back and look at the few full length photos we have of him.
Click to expand...
(Above post shortened for brevity)

Christopher: he has blond hair, huge blue eyes and appears thin.
THE DISAPPEARANCE OF CHRISTOPHER
 
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