CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[katydid23]

Idk what PF wanted. I’ve not found supporting documentation he wanted to be saddled with a kid.

I think his mother was instrumental in wanting custody of her grandbaby. She, apparently, cared for her 40 hours or more, each week, while KB worked.

As a grandmother, with a toddler grandchild whom I adore, I can testify to the strength of grandmother's love. If I thought my DIL was going to leave my son, and seek full custody and move out of state, I would be devastated.

PF was dependent upon his mother, financially, if nothing else. I think he also hoped to inherit some of that farmland at some point, if he was going to be able to continue with his 'career' choice. So his stupid, ridiculous attempt to gain custody was probably motivated by the urge to please his mother, IMO, JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Do people really have “friends”who would haul a dead mother of a baby out of town and dispose of her body? I really must be naive about people in general. Every one of these cases boggles my mind. I cannot understand PF or even his family member doing this...but a friend of his?!

I do hope he did this by himself!

My thinking is that he disposed of the body himself.

Had he asked someone else to do this, I think they would have recovered her body by now.

They seem to know who the players are, and atleast one is talking.

I don’t think this person knows where the body is, and that’s because PF carried out that aspect of the crime.

I also think he killed her himself.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

I have an awful feeling that with the timing of this investigation, the prosecution has evidence, but does not have solid confirmed evidence....IE- tested by lab or verified. Hence their motion to extend to Friday. Which makes me wonder how they can charge him with crimes but say "hey wait, we will get you this evidence just as soon as we can.. Just sit tight..." Sounds like a circus side show to me.. This makes me sooo scared for KB family.
ETA: Especially knowing how FAST the FBI processes evidence..

 

[1mtroyal]

I don’t think the investigators know nearly as much as we’ve assumed they do. They file two separate murder charges, one for each theory - I’d think they’d have enough confidence in one to eliminate the other. At this point I don’t have a whole lot of confidence they can build a case to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt - if it even gets that far.

Maybe they have phone records, texting where PF and his accomplice are discussing whether to have a simple murder or do the robbery scenario and the police don't know which they ended up doing.

 

[katydid23]

Well that's the thing. You'd think that if PF tried to make it look like a robbery he'd have left her body there, but something obviously went wrong and they had to get rid of the body.

Unless the DA wants to make sure every scenario is covered because they DON'T have a body and one of the people PF solicited to murder KB came forward and said that the original plan was to make the murder look like a routine robbery that went wrong.

This awful tragedy could have been prevented if PF was a normal, reasonable human being.
Instead he has ruined the lives of his daughter, KB's family and loved ones, as well as his own family (some of them) who are shocked at what he did. The ripple effect is horrific.

moo

Reading your first sentence triggered an awful idea. What if PF sent someone to stage a robbery, and that vile person raped KB during the crime? Maybe PF figured that out, and they had to go back and clear up the staged scene and dispose of the remains?

 

[1mtroyal]

I went to the site www.fbi.gov to see what crimes the FBI gets involved in and the list is long, bank robberies, kidnappings, terrorism, crimes against children, violent crimes, etc. I guess one has to ask them to get involved and they decide. I do know that they get involved in most crimes on Indian reservations and if there is a crime on federal land, they are probably more likely to get involved (say for example PF buried someone on BLM land). Crimes across state lines, IMO probably take precedence. The FBI site is not being updated due to the gov't shutdown.

 

[susiQ]

I don’t think the investigators know nearly as much as we’ve assumed they do. They file two separate murder charges, one for each theory - I’d think they’d have enough confidence in one to eliminate the other. At this point I don’t have a whole lot of confidence they can build a case to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt - if it even gets that far.

And I would say, they probably have a whole lot more than we think they do Funny how we can all look at the same things and see the exact opposite.

 

[peach3s]

Welcome to Websleuths, peach3s!

Thanks for your information on farriers in PF's general area. Do most farriers have to travel long distances? Do most farriers advertise, or do they get work by referrals/word-of-mouth? Thanks in advance!

I think like a lot of self-employment type of professions - it REALLY depends on the person.

A lot of farriers will travel to certain areas on certain days - for example - most of the week stay in 30 mile range of their home base, but then pick specific days where they will drive an hour or more out to see regular clients that all live in another area. If a large group at a barn or neighborhood uses one farrier (not uncommon), that could be 10+ horses all in close proximity, which would be worth a longer drive. My farrier does overnights to a few areas a few times month, but that’s definitely not something all will do.

I think a lot of their business is word of mouth, but a lot promote themselves on local FB pages (or current clients will tag/ promote them when someone asks for a referral).

MOO / based on personal experience... I’m sure there is a LOT of variation (just as there are a lot of people that are “farriers/ trainers/ ranchers” but don’t really make a lot of income via these routes)

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have an awful feeling that with the timing of this investigation, the prosecution has evidence, but does not have solid confirmed evidence....IE- tested by lab or verified. Hence their motion to extend to Friday. Which makes me wonder how they can charge him with crimes but say "hey wait, we will get you this evidence just as soon as we can.. Just sit tight..." Sounds like a circus side show to me.. This makes me sooo scared for KB family.
ETA: Especially knowing how FAST the FBI processes evidence..

I believe it was reported there was one item that needed consumptive dna testing. There's no way that's the only thing they have in regards to evidence. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I went to the site www.fbi.gov to see what crimes the FBI gets involved in and the list is long, bank robberies, kidnappings, terrorism, crimes against children, violent crimes, etc. I guess one has to ask them to get involved and they decide. I do know that they get involved in most crimes on Indian reservations and if there is a crime on federal land, they are probably more likely to get involved (say for example PF buried someone on BLM land). Crimes across state lines, IMO probably take precedence. The FBI site is not being updated due to the gov't shutdown.

There are certain crimes in which they will take over the investigation.

In situations like this, they simply provide assistance.

 

[justpeachy22]

I’m out for a day and I have so much to catch up on! Wanted to throw out an alternative theory. What is SF is innocent on all this, simply taken in for questioning then released. Her involvement has certainly been a target of suspicion, but what if she is as appalled at her son’s actions and choices as we are? Thoughts?

 

[Love Never Fails]

My thinking is that he disposed of the body himself.

Had he asked someone else to do this, I think they would have recovered her body by now.

They seem to know who the players are, and atleast one is talking.

I don’t think this person knows where the body is, and that’s because PF carried out that aspect of the crime.

I also think he killed her himself.

See....that is logical. I cannot imagine the mind of a killer but at least I could take consolation in the fact he did it alone. But to think he had an accomplice just shakes me. I know LE has it all put together and someone must be talking. Since PF was born and raised there, and knew places to bury a body, LE May never recover her body. So sad for her family. Thanks MassGuy.

 

[GordianKnot]

My thinking is that he disposed of the body himself.

Had he asked someone else to do this, I think they would have recovered her body by now.

They seem to know who the players are, and atleast one is talking.

I don’t think this person knows where the body is, and that’s because PF carried out that aspect of the crime.

I also think he killed her himself.

MG, ISYO 100% on all the above points.

IMO, the solicitation charge is r/t him approaching others to do his dirty work for him, but he was unsuccessful in his efforts to enlist others, so he did it himself.
*ETA: The evil creep!!!

 

[Vandalay Industries]

I believe it was reported there was one item that needed consumptive dna testing. There's no way that's the only thing they have in regards to evidence. JMO

Let's hope at least..

 

[girlhasnoname]

I thought his dump trip a hoax. Cat & mouse with LE. JMO

PF just doesn't come across to me as a "hoaxy" type guy....cold, detached and flying as far under the radar as humanly possible. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Okay, that makes sense. I just don't see Patrick being a devoted dad.

Yes, I agree. But Patrick is devoted to his Mommy's money and her helpful enabling of him. He doesn't want to let her down.

 

[riolove77]

I don’t think the investigators know nearly as much as we’ve assumed they do. They file two separate murder charges, one for each theory - I’d think they’d have enough confidence in one to eliminate the other. At this point I don’t have a whole lot of confidence they can build a case to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt - if it even gets that far.

Not true. This is how we do it. Never put all your eggs in one basket. Juries are unpredictable.

 

[MassGuy]

MG, ISYO 100% on all the above points.

IMO, the solicitation charge is r/t him approaching others to do his dirty work for him, but he was unsuccessful in his efforts to enlist others, so he did it himself.
*ETA: The evil creep!!!

I do think that someone else was involved in regards to the whole cell phone situation, but I don’t think there is another killer out there, walking free.

It’s not easy to find someone willing to kill for you, and I think he decided to alter his plan, ultimately doing it himself.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

There are certain crimes in which they will take over the investigation.

In situations like this, they simply provide assistance.

Certain districts don't have the skilled expertise of the FBI either.. At some point the WPPD said, call the CBI.. Now, I know the CBI and FBI are tied together, but in the press conference they note that EACH individual branch has offered expertise and skills to the development to the case.. I can find that PC if I need to, Mods. So my question lies on, at what point did the WPPD say, "oh boy, lets call in the 'big guys'" because they decided it was beyond their skill set...

 

[cluciano63]

Surely LE would not play games with legal documents and charges. They don’t have to settle on one theory, look at how many cases have options for the juries to determine level of murders etc...and before trial, they may well narrow things down, it is very early. Her body may be found, which could offer more evidence etc...jmo