CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #7

[Charlot123]

Yeah. My main point is that even if we were to have evidence of that sort of thing, I still don’t think it factored in to what happened here.

I don’t believe she left on her own, because certain things are pointing in a different direction.

This looks exactly like what someone would do, if they were trying to cover up a crime.

I think that how he got her in the car (if that what happened), depends on the nature of their relationship and what was going on with them.

It appears he achieved his goal, no matter the method.

I am just thinking that Thanksgiving week is the worst time to travel with something incriminating. The chance of being stopped is too high. Plus, aren't you crossing the lines from "pot enthusiasts" state CO to "status pending" WI to ID where it is illegal. Another thing to consider, not sure that the police doesn't randomly search cars. (I have never traveled that way, trying to use my imagination).

And yet why do I feel that not only the phone traveled there? I don't rely on own intuition, maybe it is the feeling that the POI is pretty smart and a better planner than CW?

Did someone help him? I have a feeling that in certain way, yes. Not in the big way, but in some details, it is possible.

 

[Jennifer17]

Quick question, and forgive me if it has been answered, I've done a lot of skimming trying to catch up.
Has it been verified, or has it been determined to be rumor, that PF hasn't allowed the grandparents to see the baby?

The grandmother says so, and I believe her.

 

[MassGuy]

I am just thinking that Thanksgiving week is the worst time to travel with something incriminating. The chance of being stopped is too high. Plus, aren't you crossing the lines from "pot enthusiasts" state CO to "status pending" WI to ID where it is illegal. Another thing to consider, not sure that the police doesn't randomly search cars. (I have never traveled that way, trying to use my imagination).

And yet I feel that not only the phone traveled there.

Did someone help him? I have a feeling that in certain way, yes. Not in the big way, but in some details, it is possible.

It’s a risk, that’s for sure.

This just made me think of something.

If he did travel all that distance to create a false trail, then it would stand to reason that the body made atleast part of the trip.

But, I believe that she was likely killed on the 22nd.

Three days is a hell of a long time to hang on to a dead body.

I’m not sure that most people would take that risk.

So he either hid the body for that 3 day period and then moved it (on or around the 25th), or her body may be a lot closer to home than people might expect.

 

[cass523]

In the video clip above at 6 secs* it shows Kelsey walking into the store and there is a man walking in front of her. Does anyone think that man looks like PF? He is the right height, right build, similar hair and has a black jacket on. It's probably unlikely to be him or that would have been mentioned by LE right? But seeing these photos above, I just noticed that man has a similar black jacket on as the one PF has on after getting into his truck outside the attorney's office. It's odd that PF seems to have that black jacket on inside the truck and then takes the jacket off again when he gets out to confront the reporter at his gate who followed him home. The reporter is wearing long sleeves and yet here is PF outside in short sleeves in mid December. What were temps like that day? And why would anyone wear a jacket inside their truck but not outside? Or were those photos of PF and the truck taken on different days?

*ETA: Gah, I just tried to watch the video again at the link and it has been changed (I was trying to post this when the thread got closed). I'll try to find a similar video somewhere else.

ETA 2: Ok, the video below is clearer than what I saw before and the man seems to be walking with a small child-- so I'm thinking for sure not PF. But the jacket inside the truck but not outside is still interesting to me:

I believe I see a child with the man walking to his left. Young boy wearing white sneakers. When they first enter you can see the child clearer.

 

[Charlot123]

It’s a risk, that’s for sure.

This just made me think of something.

If he did travel all that distance just to create a false trail, then it would stand to reason that the body made atleast part of the trip.

But, I believe that she was likely killed on the 22nd.

Three days is a hell of a long time to hang on to a dead body.

I’m not sure that most people would take that risk.

So he either hid the body for that 3 day period and then moved it (on or around the 25th), or her body may be a lot closer to home than people realize.

He might have hidden it on his farm for a day or so, (hence the patch of soil looking different), but I doubt he used his car to remove it. He knows about DNA. Maybe, as @Gardener1850 says, a horse? Another version - I have mentioned it, if he has something like a bone grinder. I am sorry, I know it sounds horrible. But - he has these dogs. Cats wont eat anything of sorts, but dogs, especially farm dogs, surely. One should look into his farm equipment.

(Mods - please remove it if it violates anything, I just don't want LE to miss any possibility).

 

[Gardener1850]

Quick question, and forgive me if it has been answered, I've done a lot of skimming trying to catch up.
Has it been verified, or has it been determined to be rumor, that PF hasn't allowed the grandparents to see the baby?

The grandmother has said that she hasn’t seen her grandchild since the disappearance.

She has not explicitly said that he is keeping his daughter from Kelsey’s mother, but that seems to be the implication.

Unless something has changed in the past couple of days, then that is likely still the case.

The grandmother says so, and I believe her.

LE also confirmed that at the last press conference:

"The police chief also revealed Frazee has not yet allowed Kelsey's mother - the grandmother of their one year old baby Kaylee - to see the child since her disappearance.

He said: 'Good question, no the grandmother has not seen her baby, her granddaughter at this time.'"
Cops hunting for Colorado mum who vanished on Thanksgiving Day | Daily Mail Online

 

[Steelhead]

In the video clip above at 6 secs* it shows Kelsey walking into the store and there is a man walking in front of her. Does anyone think that man looks like PF? He is the right height, right build, similar hair and has a black jacket on. It's probably unlikely to be him or that would have been mentioned by LE right? But seeing these photos above, I just noticed that man has a similar black jacket on as the one PF has on after getting into his truck outside the attorney's office. It's odd that PF seems to have that black jacket on inside the truck and then takes the jacket off again when he gets out to confront the reporter at his gate who followed him home. The reporter is wearing long sleeves and yet here is PF outside in short sleeves in mid December. What were temps like that day? And why would anyone wear a jacket inside their truck but not outside? Or were those photos of PF and the truck taken on different days?

*ETA: Gah, I just tried to watch the video again at the link and it has been changed (I was trying to post this when the thread got closed). I'll try to find a similar video somewhere else.

ETA 2: Ok, the video below is clearer than what I saw before and the man seems to be walking with a small child-- so I'm thinking for sure not PF. But the jacket inside the truck but not outside is still interesting to me:

You got me looking closer at the video and I can’t see KB’s daughter in the car seat! No face, hands, or feet are visible to me. And no movement. Could the car seat be empty??

 

[Gardener1850]

You got me looking closer at the video and I can’t see KB’s daughter in the car seat! No face, hands, or feet are visible to me. And no movement. Could the car seat be empty??

I see her head. She might have been asleep, and therefore not moving around a lot. Why would Kelsey (or anyone) carry an empty baby carrier into the grocery store? And where are you thinking the baby was if she was not in the baby carrier? PF's story seems to have been all over the place as to where/how he got Baby K but the one consistent element seems to be that he "exchanged" her in the afternoon. I believe baby K was in the car seat. JMO.

 

[Jennifer17]

You got me looking closer at the video and I can’t see KB’s daughter in the car seat! No face, hands, or feet are visible to me. And no movement. Could the car seat be empty??

Why would you think that? The baby is alive.

 

[moonlessnight]

I can clearly see the baby in the car seat.

You got me looking closer at the video and I can’t see KB’s daughter in the car seat! No face, hands, or feet are visible to me. And no movement. Could the car seat be empty??

 

[MassGuy]

I see her head. She might have been asleep, and therefore not moving around a lot. Why would Kelsey (or anyone) carry an empty baby carrier into the grocery store? And where are you thinking the baby was if she was not in the baby carrier? PF's story seems to have been all over the place as to where/how he got Baby K but the one consistent element seems to be that he "exchanged" her in the afternoon. I believe baby K was in the car seat. JMO.

Plot twist, there is no baby!

But yeah, no matter what truly happened, it’s clear that PF took the baby at some point later in the day.

She’s there.

 

[Charlot123]

I see her head. She might have been asleep, and therefore not moving around a lot. Why would Kelsey (or anyone) carry an empty baby carrier into the grocery store? And where are you thinking the baby was if she was not in the baby carrier? PF's story seems to have been all over the place as to where/how he got Baby K but the one consistent element seems to be that he "exchanged" her in the afternoon. I believe baby K was in the car seat. JMO.

Plus, at one point Kelsey very slightly bends over the cart. Ironically, this is exactly when I thought there was just a blanket in a seat. But she makes this bending gesture, I am sure subconsciously, so there must be a kid in the seat.

 

[moonlessnight]

PF may not have known how to go about things through legal avenues. And he could have filed for emergency custody but it isn't always granted, and sometimes there will be a hearing first before a decision is made. It's not a done deal just bc you file.

All he would have had to do to keep her in state, absent an existing parenting plan, is go to court during the daily ex parte docket and ask for an emergency order restraining her from taking the child out of state. He could have even asked for emergency temporary custody. I had to do this and it was done before lunch time. He didn’t even need to give her advance notice. They would have given him the temp order and figured it out at the official hearing. A simple google search would have told him that.

Also, if she left the state with the baby, the court would still make her bring the kid back pending resolution of the case. That is the the state that had jurisdiction over the three of them. It’s not like he couldn’t go and kidnap the kid back. She would have needed a court order for custody to prevent that and the court in her new state would most likely decline the case due to not having jurisdiction. This is what happened to my sister when she moved states to get away from abusive ex. She had to go back and do court in her own state because he filed in the home state and they made her move back with the kids.

 

[MassGuy]

PF may not have known how to go about things through legal avenues. And he could have filed for emergency custody but it isn't always granted, and sometimes there will be a hearing first before a decision is made. It's not a done deal just bc you file.

It seems like he may have found a loophole in the system.

 

[Charlot123]

I am also thinking... I hope police checked his credit card. He must have used some cell phone en route, because it was an unprepared trip, even if he left own phone at home. He might have purchased a burner one on Black Friday, or just purchased another one, but either it should be on his credit card, or he should have taken cash withdrawals. One usually does not travel without any way of communication because there are no phone booths any more. And if he bought something, likely, it was close to home,not to risk being remembered during the trip.

 

[moonlessnight]

maybe she mentioned or threatened going to WA or Idaho with the baby. Maybe that's what gave him the idea to claim that's where she went.

I think it may center around custody too but I'm not sold on the idea that she had plans to go anywhere.
MOO

 

[Charlot123]

It seems like he may have found a loophole in the system.

Lots of loopholes drilled through the system in Colorado, as of recently. Looks as if some of its citizens prefer criminal law to family one.

 

[SandyQLS]

You can tell a lot about someone by looking at their Pinterest account IMO.
[...RSBM...]

The one quote that stuck in my mind was "When someone treats you like an option, help them narrow their choices by removing yourself from the equation".

I think that is a very odd quote given the current circumstance.

 

[Sillybilly]

My apologies ...

As I was reviewing this thread tonight, I did not realize that MSM did in fact contain reference to PF having family members in LE. Once I realized that, subsequent posts were let stand.

Due to the sheer volume of posts that had to be removed tonight, it would not be feasible to go back to try to find those posts that were removed. If you feel your post needs to be reinstated, please message me and I'll try to locate it. (Or, I may just run off to Buenos Aires, never to be heard from again. Hold the applause, please.)

 

[MassGuy]

Assuming that this is foul play and PF is involved, I’m completely at a loss as to why he didn’t dump her car somewhere.

He had the benefit of a significant head start, and with that, he had all the time in the world to come up with a plausible scenario.

He had time to make this look like whatever the hell he wanted it to look like.

And the best he could come up with is a phone ping in Idaho.

Atleast Chris Watts lost his opportunity to stage the scene, and potentially dump Shanann’s car.

Although I’m confident that he would have screwed it up as well.

Kelsey didn’t travel hundreds of miles on foot, nor did she have a magic flying carpet.

What the hell was he going for?