CO - Mass shooting at King Soopers, 10 fatalities including 1 LEO, Boulder, 22 Mar 2021 *arrest*

[Dre]

I personally believe he was likely bullied as a child, was so sensitive to it and the people around him let him know it was just racist rhetoric and how unfair it was.. he internalized it so much that even a certain look or small slight from any stranger could be a trigger for him to think again that the world was out to get him, just like one of the Columbine shooters above. He didn’t have to be bullied in HS or adulthood, but just believing he was constantly being bullied still was enough for him to collect these “injustices”
I 100% believe he was mentally ill, whether one can diagnose or define it by actual disorders. I see mental illness as gray space and living in a suffering society we are all on some spectrum (I have terrible anxiety and found myself with a host of issues and bad coping mechanisms until I got treatment years ago) and we can just hope our developed tool belt of collected coping skills are enough to keep us off the edge. Moo

 

[Poo Bear]

“They harassed several neighbors. Caused two neighbors to move,” Dawn Losasso, who has lived on the block in the “tight-knit neighborhood” for 25 years, told The Post.

Damning that two different neighbors spoke of harrassment from the suspect's family. They've only been there 3 years. I'd love to hear what their previous neighbors have to say about them.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Damning that two different neighbors spoke of harrassment from the suspect's family. They've only been there 3 years. I'd love to hear what their previous neighbors have to say about them.

Wow...very interesting. Well then, it's completely possible that a family member was being watched by the FBI as a terrorist threat. JMHO...but this is starting to look less and less like solely mental illness and more like an terrorist (Muslim extremist) attack.

 

[Dre]

Damning that two different neighbors spoke of harrassment from the suspect's family. They've only been there 3 years. I'd love to hear what their previous neighbors have to say about them.

Yeah the neighborhood harassment by the whole household is terrible, it would make sense that it would perpetuate some really unhealthy behaviors and beliefs. Blame everyone else consistently instead of working hard to improve your own mentality. Ugh. So gross and sad. Moo

 

[Cryptic]

Imo it sounds like AA was imagining things or hearing voices. He brutally beat this kid.

It seems like the only people advocating that he was mentally ill are his family- who might not be the most objective when it comes to analysis.

Other people who knew him seem to have another story: Plain jane and olde fashioned aggressive human makes threats, flies into rages and attacks others with apparently no provocation.

This story is as old as humanity and repeats itself every day. The vast majority of these people are not mentally ill. Rather, they are just inherently aggressive people making a variety of destructive choices.

 

[shotgun09]

Is there any media updates scheduled for today?

 

[jillycat]

I apologize for the length.

I live an hour from Boulder. I used to work in Boulder and was the case manager for its homeless shelter. My son went to a parochial school there during that time. I’ve shopped in that store. My son later lived and worked in Boulder. The beautiful Flatirons were a climbing spot for him. Boulder is inextricably linked to so much of my history and world.

I’m broken-hearted.

And I’ve been hearing since the minute this news broke about *the* solution to mass shootings. Colorado has been through this with Columbine, Aurora, Highlands Ranch/STEM, and Planned Parenthood. In this case, people also - just suddenly - had so much all-knowingness, before the shooter was even taken into custody or the casualties were known.

Disinformation was all over the place. The police were condemned for not immediately confirming the number of casualties, as if the desire of people on Twitter to have a body count trumped family notification and connection with support resources. Etc. Etc.

Spare me.

My observation in these shootings has been that people want to designate a *thing* as the cause, because if we can just proclaim it, legislate it, re-legislate it, regulate it, arm it, disarm it, treat it, or medicate it, we won’t have to be scared anymore. Even our altitude and thin air were cited as having such impact on our brains that we go crazy in Colorado from oxygen starvation. Whatever.

I can only say this. The heaviness in this area is palpable. These precious people are Gone. For no other reason than an individual decided to drive 20 miles from Arvada to Boulder’s Table Mesa and walk through the door of a grocery store and open fire.

I do not personally buy that we need to build another mental health clinic with a wider door, or create a better drug, or obsess over projectile circumference, or wonder if bullies are to blame. He planned it, he drove there, and he shot ten people - including a person in a car that he parked next to, and a man he shot in the parking lot, then stood over and shot again. And again.

I do not care if he has mommy issues, feels slighted, encountered bigotry, couldn’t get a date, or didn’t go to prom. He destroyed innocent lives, including those of the 10 families that have to suffer with this horrible trauma for the rest of what’s left of their own lives.

I have known and continue to live with deeply personal traumatic loss. And I know this about grief: It’s the experience of Absence that’s always present. Always.

So I only care about the victims and the families. I don’t care about the inner workings or thought patterns or feelings of someone who hunted, cornered and ambushed other human beings. Other than the perfunctory reference for the official record, his name is irrelevant. And his heinous crime, albeit so tragically far-reaching, is another unimaginative and self-pacifying act that these shooters all have in common.

I’m afraid to go to my own King Soopers today. I’m going anyway. This individual has caused enough fear in Colorado. And he’s now where he belongs and will never do this again.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Wow...very interesting. Well then, it's completely possible that a family member was being watched by the FBI as a terrorist threat. JMHO...but this is starting to look less and less like solely mental illness and more like an terrorist (Muslim extremist) attack.

Exactly!

It's interesting in these mass murder cases the first assumption for almost all is the murderer was mentally ill without any factual evidence to base it on at the time that it's even factually true.

I cant count the times family members of murderers have said the killer was mentally ill only for it to turnout it wasn't true. I think it may be easier for the families to believe this or they think being strange or different is some type of mental illness. Of course it isn't, and shows family members don't have the capability to assess anyone's mental condition.

I truly don't think he was bullied either. That's another thing we often see to explain why they did what they did without really having any factual basis.

Imo, he seemed to be the aggressor, and used his bulky size to intimidate, and put fear in others. It seem no one wanted to set him off. How sad his classmates seem to walk on eggshells around him hoping the slightest thing wouldn't set him off. It sounds like it didnt take much for him to explode either.

It will be very interesting to learn what evidence LE finds in the home including all of his communication devices.

It's still interesting to me that on February 25, 2021 we did airstrikes on Syria, and soon after he's buying a gun, and whatever else he purchased. I'm sure LE will find surveillance video showing him purchasing certain items. They may have already. I haven't read the affidavit yet.

Imo, he premeditated this mass murder of totally innocent victims before he carried it out.

Do you know if this mass murderer has documented evidence showing he received any mental health treatment for his presumed mental illness? TIA!

Imo, this defendant did this because of uncontrollable abnormal rage, and hate in his heart.

Imo, neither defendant for the recent two mass murders will be deemed mentally insane.

Jmho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I apologize for the length.

I live an hour from Boulder. I used to work in Boulder and was the case manager for its homeless shelter. My son went to a parochial school there during that time. I’ve shopped in that store. My son later lived and worked in Boulder. The beautiful Flatirons were a climbing spot for him. Boulder is inextricably linked to so much of my history and world.

I’m broken-hearted.

And I’ve been hearing since the minute this news broke about *the* solution to mass shootings. Colorado has been through this with Columbine, Aurora, Highlands Ranch/STEM, and Planned Parenthood. In this case, people also - just suddenly - had so much all-knowingness, before the shooter was even taken into custody or the casualties were known.

Disinformation was all over the place. The police were condemned for not immediately confirming the number of casualties, as if the desire of people on Twitter to have a body count trumped family notification and connection with support resources. Etc. Etc.

Spare me.

My observation in these shootings has been that people want to designate a *thing* as the cause, because if we can just proclaim it, legislate it, re-legislate it, regulate it, arm it, disarm it, treat it, or medicate it, we won’t have to be scared anymore. Even our altitude and thin air were cited as having such impact on our brains that we go crazy in Colorado from oxygen starvation. Whatever.

I can only say this. The heaviness in this area is palpable. These precious people are Gone. For no other reason than an individual decided to drive 20 miles from Arvada to Boulder’s Table Mesa and walk through the door of a grocery store and open fire.

I do not personally buy that we need to build another mental health clinic with a wider door, or create a better drug, or obsess over projectile circumference, or wonder if bullies are to blame. He planned it, he drove there, and he shot ten people - including a person in a car that he parked next to, and a man he shot in the parking lot, then stood over and shot again. And again.

I do not care if he has mommy issues, feels slighted, encountered bigotry, couldn’t get a date, or didn’t go to prom. He destroyed innocent lives, including those of the 10 families that have to suffer with this horrible trauma for the rest of what’s left of their own lives.

I have known and continue to live with deeply personal traumatic loss. And I know this about grief: It’s the experience of Absence that’s always present. Always.

So I only care about the victims and the families. I don’t care about the inner workings or thought patterns or feelings of someone who hunted, cornered and ambushed other human beings. Other than the perfunctory reference for the official record, his name is irrelevant. And his heinous crime, albeit so tragically far-reaching, is another unimaginative and self-pacifying act that these shooters all have in common.

I’m afraid to go to my own King Soopers today. I’m going anyway. This individual has caused enough fear in Colorado. And he’s now where he belongs and will never do this again.

If I could like this post a thousand times I would.

Thank you for expressing so eloquently how I feel.

This is one of the best post I've read in a long time.

Jmho

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I apologize for the length.

I live an hour from Boulder. I used to work in Boulder and was the case manager for its homeless shelter. My son went to a parochial school there during that time. I’ve shopped in that store. My son later lived and worked in Boulder. The beautiful Flatirons were a climbing spot for him. Boulder is inextricably linked to so much of my history and world.

I’m broken-hearted.

And I’ve been hearing since the minute this news broke about *the* solution to mass shootings. Colorado has been through this with Columbine, Aurora, Highlands Ranch/STEM, and Planned Parenthood. In this case, people also - just suddenly - had so much all-knowingness, before the shooter was even taken into custody or the casualties were known.

Disinformation was all over the place. The police were condemned for not immediately confirming the number of casualties, as if the desire of people on Twitter to have a body count trumped family notification and connection with support resources. Etc. Etc.

Spare me.

My observation in these shootings has been that people want to designate a *thing* as the cause, because if we can just proclaim it, legislate it, re-legislate it, regulate it, arm it, disarm it, treat it, or medicate it, we won’t have to be scared anymore. Even our altitude and thin air were cited as having such impact on our brains that we go crazy in Colorado from oxygen starvation. Whatever.

I can only say this. The heaviness in this area is palpable. These precious people are Gone. For no other reason than an individual decided to drive 20 miles from Arvada to Boulder’s Table Mesa and walk through the door of a grocery store and open fire.

I do not personally buy that we need to build another mental health clinic with a wider door, or create a better drug, or obsess over projectile circumference, or wonder if bullies are to blame. He planned it, he drove there, and he shot ten people - including a person in a car that he parked next to, and a man he shot in the parking lot, then stood over and shot again. And again.

I do not care if he has mommy issues, feels slighted, encountered bigotry, couldn’t get a date, or didn’t go to prom. He destroyed innocent lives, including those of the 10 families that have to suffer with this horrible trauma for the rest of what’s left of their own lives.

I have known and continue to live with deeply personal traumatic loss. And I know this about grief: It’s the experience of Absence that’s always present. Always.

So I only care about the victims and the families. I don’t care about the inner workings or thought patterns or feelings of someone who hunted, cornered and ambushed other human beings. Other than the perfunctory reference for the official record, his name is irrelevant. And his heinous crime, albeit so tragically far-reaching, is another unimaginative and self-pacifying act that these shooters all have in common.

I’m afraid to go to my own King Soopers today. I’m going anyway. This individual has caused enough fear in Colorado. And he’s now where he belongs and will never do this again.

((hugs))

I'm trying to decompress today... working in my garden and coming in to see posts.

((hugs))

Listening to music.. decompressing... it's needed

 

[NarrativeAnalyzer]

I'm seeing people assuming a terrorist element to this, specifically linking to this New York Post article. I just want to point out that we need to be cautious about sources and assumptions. NYP is known for extreme right wing views and the article is quite misleading. They reference the killer as "Syrian-born" without acknowledging that he lived in the US since he was 4. There is a video of his mugshot that they describe as having an "ice cold stare" when really you can read into it whatever you think. The references to his family "harrassing" others are vague and most of the specific references are that they had a lot of people over, were loud, and did not introduce themselves to the neighbors; all of these items sound like descriptors of people describing a culture that's different from theirs and focused on difference. There is nothing substantive that would bring about a terrorist component other than the assumption that is made of people from the Middle East that is not made of people who are white.

I'm not stating knowledge of the motive or a definitive belief that there were no extremist ties. But the assumptions that people make from little information need to be recognized.

 

[Cryptic]

There is nothing substantive that would bring about a terrorist component other than the assumption that is made of people from the Middle East that is not made of people who are white.

I'm not stating knowledge of the motive or a definitive belief that there were no extremist ties. But the assumptions that people make from little information need to be recognized.

I think you have a very good point over all ( though one of his associates is evidently on a watch list- statistically most Muslims in the US are not on watch lists and probably do not associate with those who are).

The watch list associate aside, the social media excerpts that I saw contained only one, brief reference to Ramadan / Eid. Even his stated opposition to Trump and vague references to supporting Muslims seemed secular and not very sophisticated (called Trump "A d-ck head?").

Likewise, there are no other apparent warning signs of Islamacist motives such as increased religiosity, constant religious imagery in social media comments, or open attempts to say, strongly re connect to a language (Arabic) and a culture (Syrian) that he may not be fully familiar with.

Though to early to tell for sure, I am also getting angry bully with no girl friend and no job prospects vibes from him, not religious extremism.

 

[mickey2942]

They really need a separate "terrorism" law to deal with these folks, if this was a "terrorist" attack. Not unlike Israeli laws. Terrorists are completely different category than "crime".

The Boston Marathon Bombers should be considered terrorists.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I would suggest it’s not typical to detain a sibling of a mass killer. I would want to know who was under investigation by the FBI and why.

Ahmad Alissa: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Ali Alissa told The Daily Beast he and his family have lived in Colorado for 20 years and said they are “so sorry” for the victims. He went to King Soopers shortly after the shooting and found his brother in a police cruiser. He had been looking for their third brother, who left to run errands. They could not get in touch with the third brother. That’s when he learned Ahmad Alissa was a suspect, he said.

“I went to King Sooper that is close to our house to see if they are there, and then I saw a police car,” he said. “And then as I got closer to the police car, I saw my [other] brother was detained in the police car. That was 9:30 at night.”

 

[Inthedetails]

They really need a separate "terrorism" law to deal with these folks, if this was a "terrorist" attack. Not unlike Israeli laws. Terrorists are completely different category than "crime".

The Boston Marathon Bombers should be considered terrorists.

There are legal definitions of terrorism. This is from the FBI website:

International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

Terrorism | Federal Bureau of Investigation

edited to correct link

 

[shotgun09]

IMO, anyone who senselessly guns down 10 innocent people is a terrorist. No matter who, and where they are from.

 

[Inthedetails]

I would suggest it’s not typical to detain a sibling of a mass killer. I would want to know who was under investigation by the FBI and why.

Ahmad Alissa: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Ali Alissa told The Daily Beast he and his family have lived in Colorado for 20 years and said they are “so sorry” for the victims. He went to King Soopers shortly after the shooting and found his brother in a police cruiser. He had been looking for their third brother, who left to run errands. They could not get in touch with the third brother. That’s when he learned Ahmad Alissa was a suspect, he said.

“I went to King Sooper that is close to our house to see if they are there, and then I saw a police car,” he said. “And then as I got closer to the police car, I saw my [other] brother was detained in the police car. That was 9:30 at night.”

So one brother was at a King Soopers killing people and coincidentally on the same day another brother was at a a different King Soopers and was detained??

jmo

 

[GatorFL]

IMO, anyone who senselessly guns down 10 innocent people is a terrorist. No matter who, and where they are from.

Hard to argue with that.

 

[Inthedetails]

Hard to argue with that.

Except in a court of law.

There are legal requirements for a crime to be classified as "terrorism." I posted the FBI definitions a few posts above.

This crime might fit the definition, but just because a crime is horrible (terrorizing) doesn't legally mean it's terrorism.

jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I will admit that I thought it was a bit odd that apparently the family’s first comments to police were “he’s paranoid. He always thinks someone is after him”. It seemed a bit contrived and...convenient. Then it became “he was bullied. He’s been a target because he’s a Muslim.” I don’t know. It made me wonder.
Now all this stuff from the neighbors and the FBI. I don’t know about the terrorism possibilities, but it seems like if people were in fact harsh with them, they were targeted because they were truly unpleasant people rather than because they were Muslims.