Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

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NuttMegg said:
I tend to think the 3 hour delay in her return infuriated him beyond all limits. Whatever the plan was, it was already delayed in the precious early morning hours. IMO
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It would certainly trigger anger if he'd had a plan that was foiled due to a late flight. Guess he didn't plan as well as he thought he could! Murphy's Law.
 
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Marli61 said:
IMO most of us here are aware he's in county jail, not prison. It has been published multiple places that he is not allowed reading material, etc. and is only allowed out of his cell 1 hour a day for a shower & phone calls to family & lawyer. As to whether he is allowed more time with his lawyer, I can't speak to that & I have not seen that published anywhere. @gitana1 @Mrspratcher @Amandaaa @Alethea can any of you shed light on whether he would be allowed more time with his council?
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Yes, he would have access to his attorneys on an ad boc basis.
 
MsBetsy said:
Yes, I have questions too but will let that poster answer the others first. Gitana 1 what is your opinion about why the prosecutors don't want the autopsy results revealed? Sorry if it was already answered but I wondered if it had something to do with not being able to find potential jurors? The only reason I can think of is that it would be so hard to find people who have not heard of the details of the case, and have not formed any opinions. Could there be other reasons?
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I think that's about it. It's something the state has requested in multiple cases before.
 
NuttMegg said:
I tend to think the 3 hour delay in her return infuriated him beyond all limits. IMO
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That's one reason I think he killed the kids before she got home and then killed her shortly after. Otherwise why would he slip and say they had the conversation at 5:00 first? He knew it wouldn't make sense so he switched it to 4:00 after he spoke with his dad. I think they never had a conversation at all. I think he felt rushed because of the delay. He had to get rid of the bodies before dark. She never had a chance to bring her purse or suitcase upstairs, her shoes were by the door, as if she had just walked in the door and didn't get ready for bed. Either that, or if she was so tired she went right to bed, I think he would have attacked her in her sleep. He just seems too non-confrontational to have started a discussion upon waking her. Didn't the VI say that he never got mad or argued? Jmo
 
stereopticons said:
I think it's extremely unlikely that CW experienced acute psychosis at the time of the murders. My main reason for this is his actions and interviews in the days after. He didn't exhibit any bizarre behavior or thinking during his interviews. It's extremely unlikely he would have fully recovered that quickly and without treatment. Additionally, 33 is pretty old for an onset of a psychotic disorder with no prior indications. Of course, he could have had symptoms we don't know about, but again, I think it's very unlikely.

I should point out when I refer to bizarre behavior, I mean what's clinically considered bizarre behavior, which is things like tics, referring to your delusions, talking to hallucinations, etc.

Basically, a dissociative episode is when you separate from your thoughts and actions.
Dissociation is possible, and more likely than psychosis, but honestly, also not likely at all. Dissociation can range in severity and may resolve more quickly than active psychosis, but it's not usually selective. If he said he blacked out and came to and found his wife and kids were dead, I'd be more likely to consider dissociation, but he didn't seem to have any memory loss at all. If he indeed did experience dissociation, he wouldn't remember a false (IMO!) memory of his wife killing the kids. He would almost certainly remember none of it.

The other thing to note about dissociation is that it is usually a response to trauma. For example, you see it most often in children who were sexually abused. It's hypothesized that dissociation is a form of a coping mechanism. It is possible that the dissociative episode could have been triggered by seeing SW strangling the girls, but if that were the case, he'd likely not remember any of his actions later on.

Dissociation also tends to be associated with numbness. I know we've debated how much emotion he's expressing in his interviews after the murders, but honestly, I think it's too much for him to have experienced a dissociative episode.

As always, my caveat is that you can't diagnose over the internet and I don't have all the information. But in my opinion, CW did not experience either active psychosis or a dissociative episode.
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Wow, I'm saving this one. Thank you so much! :)
 
stereopticons said:
I think it's extremely unlikely that CW experienced acute psychosis at the time of the murders. My main reason for this is his actions and interviews in the days after. He didn't exhibit any bizarre behavior or thinking during his interviews. It's extremely unlikely he would have fully recovered that quickly and without treatment. Additionally, 33 is pretty old for an onset of a psychotic disorder with no prior indications. Of course, he could have had symptoms we don't know about, but again, I think it's very unlikely.

I should point out when I refer to bizarre behavior, I mean what's clinically considered bizarre behavior, which is things like tics, referring to your delusions, talking to hallucinations, etc.



Basically, a dissociative episode is when you separate from your thoughts and actions.
Dissociation is possible, and more likely than psychosis, but honestly, also not likely at all. Dissociation can range in severity and may resolve more quickly than active psychosis, but it's not usually selective. If he said he blacked out and came to and found his wife and kids were dead, I'd be more likely to consider dissociation, but he didn't seem to have any memory loss at all. If he indeed did experience dissociation, he wouldn't remember a false (IMO!) memory of his wife killing the kids. He would almost certainly remember none of it.

The other thing to note about dissociation is that it is usually a response to trauma. For example, you see it most often in children who were sexually abused. It's hypothesized that dissociation is a form of a coping mechanism. It is possible that the dissociative episode could have been triggered by seeing SW strangling the girls, but if that were the case, he'd likely not remember any of his actions later on.

Dissociation also tends to be associated with numbness. I know we've debated how much emotion he's expressing in his interviews after the murders, but honestly, I think it's too much for him to have experienced a dissociative episode.

As always, my caveat is that you can't diagnose over the internet and I don't have all the information. But in my opinion, CW did not experience either active psychosis or a dissociative episode.
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Thank you. We haven't had the benefit of an expert answering those questions so we've been muddling along on our own!!

Your expertise is really appreciated.
 
AB 9/24/18
1. Whatever is contained in Autopsy Reports is causing a lot of agitation.
There are some clues in the way the reports are being handled.
2. AB has rarely found it difficult to get COD. AB producers called Prosecution Office and they were told they didn’t have Autopsy report, yet. Then AB called coroner, and it got more bizarre. Coroners Office doesn’t have it, yet, either, and can not give time line for when they’re going to have it.
3. Autopsies were probably conducted in Medical Examiners
Office. You’d think by now coroner would have something.
4. Court expressed that no one from public has expressed interest. Ashleigh Banfield is interested! AB has sent in formal requests on September 19. Received this response from coroner. “I have located the CORA request submitted by HLN in the folder that contains the numerous requests for the Watts autopsy reports. I apologize for not replying sooner. I didn’t know that your inquiry was couched in the form of a CORA request. As you may have gathered from the District courts order. We don’t have the autopsy reports yet. I don’t have a timetable right now for when we will receive the reports.”
5. It seems Prosecution wants to keep this from the public, but there’s a few laws about open records. Seems fishy. Unusual but not unheard of. Might be possible that the Defense has let out that they want to deal. Maybe in discussions. Prosecution doesn’t want to let out all the facts
yet.
6. 6 weeks since murder. COD unknown. In order to investigate LE needs to know.
7. The DA must know COD. They retrieved the bodies.
 
Judge in Christopher Watts case orders prosecution to give autopsy to defense

The Weld County District Court judge handling the Christopher Watts case has ordered the prosecution to provide autopsy reports to Watts' defense attorneys by Tuesday after they accused the prosecution of withholding evidence.

Judge Marcelo Kopcow also denied the defense's motion for a protective order that would prohibit the Weld County Sheriff's Office from disclosing information about confidential jail visits.
 
Layla123 said:
AB 9/24/18
1. Whatever is contained in Autopsy Reports is causing a lot of agitation.
There are some clues in the way the reports are being handled.
2. AB has rarely found it difficult to get COD. AB producers called Prosecution Office and they were told they didn’t have Autopsy report, yet. Then AB called coroner, and it got more bizarre. Coroners Office doesn’t have it, yet, either, and can not give time line for when they’re going to have it.
3. Autopsies were probably conducted in Medical Examiners
Office. You’d think by now coroner would have something.
4. Court expressed that no one from public has expressed interest. Ashleigh Banfield is interested! AB has sent in formal requests on September 19. Received this response from coroner. “I have located the CORA request submitted by HLN in the folder that contains the numerous requests for the Watts autopsy reports. I apologize for not replying sooner. I didn’t know that your inquiry was couched in the form of a CORA request. As you may have gathered from the District courts order. We don’t have the autopsy reports yet. I don’t have a timetable right now for when we will receive the reports.”
5. It seems Prosecution wants to keep this from the public, but there’s a few laws about open records. Seems fishy. Unusual but not unheard of. Might be possible that the Defense has let out that they want to deal. Maybe in discussions. Prosecution doesn’t want to let out all the facts
yet.
6. 6 weeks since murder. COD unknown. In order to investigate LE needs to know.
7. The DA must know COD. They retrieved the bodies.
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Thank you for posting your update Layla! I look forward to this every week day as I cannot watch AB.
 
PommyMommy said:
Nothing we don't already know, really.

Cheating husband who 'killed his wife and daughters' fails in bid to keep his jail visitors secret | Daily Mail Online

A judge has denied the request of an accused Colorado killer to keep the names of all his jail visitors under seal.

Chris Watts, who was reportedly having an affair at the time he allegedly killed his wife Shanann and their two daughters, Bella and Celeste, had submitted a request asking that the prosecution and members of the public not be allowed to learn who was seeing him in jail.

That request was denied however by the court on Monday.
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OK so who are they.
 
esayer said:
Alright who's ready for AB live updates by me?
Is DNA on girls' BODies? WHY would PROSECUTERS want that info sealed? It's Forensic Files dark guys!

Morbid as-it-may-be what DNA evidence is there on the bodies? Why isn't COD out? Most cases don't have this long of wait...something is fishy/bizarre/weird.

DA still doesn't have autopsy reports. Coroner's office doesn't have report and no timeline when they will.

AB: The CORoner doesn't have the reports after SIX. WEEKS?

Court Order: Court not aware of anyone making a request for the COD. (Except we all want to know.) AB made CORA request wed, response was: There are numerous requests, sry we didn't get it sooner, we don't have the reports, no timetable.

AB: We have the right? To the documents? (reads request AB sent to coroner) on Sept 19. Judge not aware of any requests on Friday...oh wait they do have a huge file of requests. (do we need to repeat this again AB?)

Lisa says they want to hide from public to not taint pool and perhaps stop CW from retaining it. Prosecution hasn't given anything to Defense.

AB: It's WEIRD TO ME no one has COD or autopsy reps (yes we know)

James: I'm being devils advocate, prosecution doesn't want defense to know what they have so defense doesn't have time to refute anything (or something like that)

AB and James are fighting about COD ( was CW seen on video buying things at a hardware store?) James: I think prosecution knows exactly what happened, and are waiting for autopsy to confirm.

AB: Police don't believe CW. Answer Just-might-be preSERVED. On those little bodies. Would the finger marks be traceable? Joseph: If there is contact with porous skin, they can lift prints with superglue fuming, and they can do that on bodies. Marks probably wouldn't show hand size, just that it's adult. Friction ridges would show up. Talking about super glue process on Forensic Files clip.

Bodies would have to have been wrapped to preserve evidence.

AB: What microscopic smoking GUN, is on the necks of those little girls? Touch DNA is based on small sections of DNA because it's dead skin, and has everything to do with how long he was in contact with them. Expect to find DNA from other living in the house. Girls had a bath since they last saw SW. What would create more DNA? Would strangulation leave more DNA? (Missed some had to pee)

AB: We need to know how they died, but autopsies won't show WHY. WHY. would. he. KILL. His entire family.

Cheating, lots of affairs, Financial, Health issues/doctor bills, new house, private preschool, life insurance; New baby on the way.

Prosecution Doesn't have to prove motive. As long as they can prove that he did it, motive doesn't matter. They can speculate to remove doubt in jury.

Even in light of affairs, or if SW was controlling, still no reason to kill someone.

CW has stuff in common with other family annihilators. NEXT!

AB: CW white male, 30s, killing in August, financial difficulties, and they confess or commit suicide.

They happen in August because kids won't be missed at school. Poor sense of self, unstable ego/identity, don't have criminal record and seem fine. He never felt comfortable as a husband or a man.

Family annihilators: 60% rage, 30% revenge, 10% no idea why. Overwhelmingly planned. financial probs, affairs or disappointment, lack of identity, feel like there is no other option.

One piece of evidence we haven't heard anything about...a shovel...NEXT!
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Awesomeness :) Thank you
 
nwmouse said:
It would certainly trigger anger if he'd had a plan that was foiled due to a late flight. Guess he didn't plan as well as he thought he could! Murphy's Law.
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Well if he had killed the girls just before she had originally been expected, he would suddenly know (you'd think) that when she was so late that the evidence would show it didn't happen all at once. Something like that. IMO
 
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