GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

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I get it.

But, that transparency can be coupled with common sense; i.e. redacting info. that is not necessary to the general public.

Example - say you witness a home invasion/robbery at your neighbors home, someone at the home is raped and murdered, as a good citizen, you contact local LE and you are interviewed. They'd like to know, did you maybe take a picture or video of anyone entering the home? Why yes, you did!

LE asks if they may see your phone, so that they may validate date/time/location of photo or video taken, and extract it. They need to know that it's not just some random photo/video that appears to be a robbery, or that you staged to look that way (maybe you're a nut and want your name in media lights aka Trent B., etc.) You agree, your a good citizen doing your civic duty. You've already sent the photo to your husband at work, your adult daughter and maybe a few friends...just because, or asking them what you should do.

This is a murder case, media is all over it. Article in the local and not-so-local papers, includes the photo or video taken, your first name is mentioned, along with the fact that you are a neighbor of the victim...and the murder locations approx. address is included ("110 block of Stevens St., in Baltimore, or whatever). LE sees that you've distributed the photo, and asks your about that. You, sadly, have a son-in-law who has a break-in and robbery conviction in his past. He and some buddies broke into someones garage and stole tools, or whatever. LE wants to know more about that, could he maybe be involved? He lives, with you, close to the crime scene, he has a record, etc. Your son-in-law has done his time, paid his dues...and does not associate w/his tool stealing buddies, but they have continued to commit crimes. Bad hombres.

All of a sudden, your civic duty has become more. Your first name, approx. address, and possibly phone number are out there, via the media and "data dump".

I think you can see/understand how this could blossom.

This is just one (admittedly slightly convoluted) example of how releasing private info. that isn't necessary to the general public (and bad hombres) can potentially lead to problems.

In the case of domestic abuse, this can be very, very bad. Phone numbers CAN be part of the record, but they DO NOT have to be made public.

Again, this is why we have the word redact.

Last I will defend my position on data privacy. :)

People's names and addresses, and usually phone numbers and emails, are already public knowledge unless you work in certain areas of the government or you put a lot of effort into erasing your online profile and then live off the grid, which is almost impossible these days. In cases of domestic abuse, etc., individual states usually have a program you can apply to where you can file to have your address concealed.
 
I'm really looking forward to the 20/20 episode tonight and hearing more from SW's family.
So far, there is nothing to indicate that any definite plans to separate or divorce were known to SW or her family/friends.
One thing that VI CW supporter was truthful about was that he had announced his plans to divorce SW to his own family/friends.
This means that months ago, right here at Websleuths, we learned that he did plan the murders well in advance and what his plan was.

And with all the evidence that has come out since then, I'm quite shocked that anyone still believes this was a rage killing.
 
Honestly, I’m a little confused about this hands off NK thing. She’s a major player in this case. Her non humble / non forthright persona shined a neon light on her. Are we to just go "poor millennial, made bad choices, we should stop saying mean things about her even if they are true." People need to be shamed for bad behavior. Maybe there wouldn’t be so much bad behavior if people stopped saying “I don’t want to judge”.

I am on this site to not only learn about facts, but also learn what makes people tick, good and bad.

This is one of the most horrific crimes ( jeez, the oil tanks ) I have read about, surpassing Rebecca Zahau’s treatment laying dead, nude, uncovered for a day, press and people circling above her. I am just as interested in this NK chick and her character as I am in family Watts . . . especially after watching her videos.

Her name was outed within the first couple of weeks following CW's sermon on the porch. I saw both her name and linkedin pic, which, by the way, looks veerrry different from the Denver post pic. hmmmnnnn.

If someone makes it into my orbit by making poor/evil choices, I am interested in who they are, how they got to that place, and if they are able to redeem themselves. She chose to portray herself one way in the Denver Post article and then voila, look what we have with the interrogation tapes. Which is the real NK.

Okay, sorry NK and family, friends and supporters, I’m in.
 
BBM

What are you saying then? You asked for the discovery reference regarding her income and I provided it. MOO
I'm saying the discovery reference (a list of statements from Chris on how gee he didn't know where his family is) is not one people would take at its word on anything else?
 
Shanann is not to blame for her own murder nor that of her children. I’m happy to acknowledge that. We all bring our own personal experiences to how we view these stories. I have lived long enough to see that solving the REAL mystery is not just reading the closing chapter...it’s trying to understand all the chapters before...starting with Happy Families, ending in murder. How does that happen?

It’s easy enough to just vent about the murderer and eulogize the victim and say, case closed. That’s an emotional decision and on the Internet, we form teams that support how we want to handle our feelings about a case.

But some of us want to discuss the victim and the murderer as the real people they were. This is not a memorial thread at a funeral home...it a sleuthing forum.

CW has an easy out. His family supported him, his new girlfriend already knew about the wife and family...and according to this thread, maybe the pregnancy. She was still looking at wedding gowns. NK made a good salary and had a stable income. Together with his income, he’d probably be better off financially even with the divorce.

SW, on the other hand, would have had the more difficult transition. She had two children and no new partner. With their debt, doubtful she’d have gotten any big settlement. But, worse yet, the “marketing image” of the rich, perfect life was about to collapse. And she was pregnant.

His Dad worried about getting CW “in trouble” with SW. He grovels and agrees with her in emails. Yet, he’s done with her.

Finally, so done that he can strangle her to death. The mouse roared.

We hate the ending. But there are things to be learned in an OBJECTIVE review of the preceding chapters. That’s not blaming the victim. That’s trying to learn from the tragedy.
 
I get it.

But, that transparency can be coupled with common sense; i.e. redacting info. that is not necessary to the general public.

Example - say you witness a home invasion/robbery at your neighbors home, someone at the home is raped and murdered, as a good citizen, you contact local LE and you are interviewed. They'd like to know, did you maybe take a picture or video of anyone entering the home? Why yes, you did!

LE asks if they may see your phone, so that they may validate date/time/location of photo or video taken, and extract it. They need to know that it's not just some random photo/video that appears to be a robbery, or that you staged to look that way (maybe you're a nut and want your name in media lights aka Trent B., etc.) You agree, your a good citizen doing your civic duty. You've already sent the photo to your husband at work, your adult daughter and maybe a few friends...just because, or asking them what you should do.

This is a murder case, media is all over it. Article in the local and not-so-local papers, includes the photo or video taken, your first name is mentioned, along with the fact that you are a neighbor of the victim...and the murder locations approx. address is included ("110 block of Stevens St., in Baltimore, or whatever). LE sees that you've distributed the photo, and asks your about that. You, sadly, have a son-in-law who has a break-in and robbery conviction in his past. He and some buddies broke into someones garage and stole tools, or whatever. LE wants to know more about that, could he maybe be involved? He lives, with you, close to the crime scene, he has a record, etc. Your son-in-law has done his time, paid his dues...and does not associate w/his tool stealing buddies, but they have continued to commit crimes. Bad hombres.

All of a sudden, your civic duty has become more. Your first name, approx. address, and possibly phone number are out there, via the media and "data dump".

I think you can see/understand how this could blossom.

This is just one (admittedly slightly convoluted) example of how releasing private info. that isn't necessary to the general public (and bad hombres) can potentially lead to problems.

In the case of domestic abuse, this can be very, very bad. Phone numbers CAN be part of the record, but they DO NOT have to be made public.

Again, this is why we have the word redact.

Last I will defend my position on data privacy. :)
Imagine the women that sent love letters to CW. Lol, bet they had no idea as they put pen to paper, they were in essence, writing to the world.
 
I get it.

But, that transparency can be coupled with common sense; i.e. redacting info. that is not necessary to the general public.

Example - say you witness a home invasion/robbery at your neighbors home, someone at the home is raped and murdered, as a good citizen, you contact local LE and you are interviewed. They'd like to know, did you maybe take a picture or video of anyone entering the home? Why yes, you did!

LE asks if they may see your phone, so that they may validate date/time/location of photo or video taken, and extract it. They need to know that it's not just some random photo/video that appears to be a robbery, or that you staged to look that way (maybe you're a nut and want your name in media lights aka Trent B., etc.) You agree, your a good citizen doing your civic duty. You've already sent the photo to your husband at work, your adult daughter and maybe a few friends...just because, or asking them what you should do.

This is a murder case, media is all over it. Article in the local and not-so-local papers, includes the photo or video taken, your first name is mentioned, along with the fact that you are a neighbor of the victim...and the murder locations approx. address is included ("110 block of Stevens St., in Baltimore, or whatever). LE sees that you've distributed the photo, and asks your about that. You, sadly, have a son-in-law who has a break-in and robbery conviction in his past. He and some buddies broke into someones garage and stole tools, or whatever. LE wants to know more about that, could he maybe be involved? He lives, with you, close to the crime scene, he has a record, etc. Your son-in-law has done his time, paid his dues...and does not associate w/his tool stealing buddies, but they have continued to commit crimes. Bad hombres.

All of a sudden, your civic duty has become more. Your first name, approx. address, and possibly phone number are out there, via the media and "data dump".

I think you can see/understand how this could blossom.

This is just one (admittedly slightly convoluted) example of how releasing private info. that isn't necessary to the general public (and bad hombres) can potentially lead to problems.

In the case of domestic abuse, this can be very, very bad. Phone numbers CAN be part of the record, but they DO NOT have to be made public.

Again, this is why we have the word redact.

Last I will defend my position on data privacy. :)

None of those examples apply in THIS case. The professionals involved seemed top flight. There were redactions made early on when allowed. For example, NK's address was artfully not included in the original witness list.

They would not have released her address publicly during trial. Or phone number.

However, they can't choose to redact public records like discovery without a compelling reason or court order.

And once again- no one could have anticipated how quickly this wrapped up. This is a unique situation. Normally we would not have received all this info because we would've had a month's long trial, at which much info would not have been released, and the media and public would've been so saturated, it is unlikely that AFTER the fact, there would be CORA requests for everything and/or that the info would generate any public interest and be publicized in the way that it was.

And witnesses would've had more of a head start if this had gone to trial. It would've been years since the initial interviews and many would've changed addresses and phone numbers by then.

But we had this unanticipated and shockingly quick resolution which led to this unique situation. The public now had the right to the discovery via CORA, once the case was resolved, and there was too much private info regarding various witnesses that wasn't redacted. Because there wasn't time for witnesses to rush to seek protective orders.

So many people's private info was released in this odd situation yet there seems only to be concern for that one woman?

In any event, had any of the people whose info was acquired been domestic violence victims or witnesses to something that could lead to retaliation by a perp not yet arrested or accomplices, etc., THAT would've been grounds for redaction without court order, IMO.

Once again, witness is embarrassed does not count. Neither does the inconvenience of witnesses or even worry that could be caused by having phone numbers or addresses released. Sorry. It just doesn't. Unless they had a very specific reason that fit a specific category, they couldn't just make decisions to redact info in public discovery documents already gathered and assembled, which differs from created witness lists in anticipation of trial.

But again, this is far from a normal situation and it is unlikely we would see this again. Yet if anyone had been a DV victim or if the perp or accomplices were at large, we would be able to see redactions.

No one was singled out for release of unredacted info and the info acquired wasn't done in order to target anyone in particular except the murderer.

In the future maybe the law could be changed in CO to mandate the redaction of all addresses, passwords, phone numbers and emails before how public gets it.

But partially nudie photos sent to an affair partner? You're probably out of luck. Might be wise not to send people you "barely know" such intimate photos.
 
Can NK be investigated again? If so does anyone here think she will be investigated again?
One thing that really bothers me about this is why was there a ping on her phone in Frederick the morning of the murders?
 
Shanann is not to blame for her own murder nor that of her children. I’m happy to acknowledge that. We all bring our own personal experiences to how we view these stories. I have lived long enough to see that solving the REAL mystery is not just reading the closing chapter...it’s trying to understand all the chapters before...starting with Happy Families, ending in murder. How does that happen?

It’s easy enough to just vent about the murderer and eulogize the victim and say, case closed. That’s an emotional decision and on the Internet, we form teams that support how we want to handle our feelings about a case.

But some of us want to discuss the victim and the murderer as the real people they were. This is not a memorial thread at a funeral home...it a sleuthing forum.

CW has an easy out. His family supported him, his new girlfriend already knew about the wife and family...and according to this thread, maybe the pregnancy. She was still looking at wedding gowns. NK made a good salary and had a stable income. Together with his income, he’d probably be better off financially even with the divorce.

SW, on the other hand, would have had the more difficult transition. She had two children and no new partner. With their debt, doubtful she’d have gotten any big settlement. But, worse yet, the “marketing image” of the rich, perfect life was about to collapse. And she was pregnant.

His Dad worried about getting CW “in trouble” with SW. He grovels and agrees with her in emails. Yet, he’s done with her.

Finally, so done that he can strangle her to death. The mouse roared.

We hate the ending. But there are things to be learned in an OBJECTIVE review of the preceding chapters. That’s not blaming the victim. That’s trying to learn from the tragedy.
I don't get your logic at all. Shannan had more to lose and somehow that contributed to causing her husband to murder her and her kids? Because she might be upset if he left her pregnant (and a pregnancy he suggested)? I think we all are interested din the why dunnit but if you take any time to research family annihilators, a category to which CW surely belongs, you will understand that there is absolutely nothing in the wife or children's behavior that needs examination. The toxicity is within the murderer, in every way. If his original wife had been NK and he had several kids with her and then met SW, the same thing would likely have happened. It's about freedom and responsibility, sexual newness, lack of empathy, shame, and many other things, I do think it is offensive and actually an intellectual farce and stupidity to keep looking at Shannan and how her particularities and their marriage contributed to what he did. JMO, MOO.
 
Everyone has the right to have an opinion about Thrive. Mine is: unproven at best, studies show that they are useless. Nothing about bashing SW. Remember, CW was down the line from her, and she said he’d make a bad vendor, if he sold them, he’d tell the customers all about them? What does it tell us?
It is not illegal to sell useless stuff. They always do it on TV. So, no bashing.
To my mind, if someone says a person was fooled into buying a product, that implies the seller is intentionally "fooling" customers.

The statement is not about the product, it's about the seller.
 
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