CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[Snowball58]

Hi, Everyone!
I have been lurking on this thread from the onset and have finally decided to post - this case stays on my mind, partly because the mystery intrigues me and partly because I believe that M was a beautiful soul who I really identify with. I am also a creative/artsy type (I'm a professional photographer), I practice yoga and am into holistic health & organic foods, have a bohemian style, and have been described as an 'old soul'. My heart completely breaks for this family.

That being said, like many of you, I have questions/issues about several things that have been bothering me:

1. TI says on Tricia's radio show (around the 40 min mark) that she believes the stalker is a serial stalker and serial murderer. But she also strongly believes that she knows who it is and that they were out to get Morgan specifically. This is a little "off" to me - most serial stalkers/murderers choose their victims at random...they don't have a specific issue with the people they kill/stalk, they just enjoy doing it. It's hard for me to buy that it is BOTH a serial stalker/murderer AND that they specifically targeted M. Not saying it's not possible, just odd.

2. TI also says on the radio show (42 min) that after M was followed, LE made up posters that had the stalker's car make and model, HIS NAME, M's car, where they live, etc. When asked (later) to see these posters, TI said she has not even seen them. This seems really odd to me. I can't remember where I saw/heard that she hasn't seen them, but I will try to find it if someone wants a link.

3. TI says on the radio show (17:40) that she was in the front room of the house (her office) with lights on, curtains open, and the window open. This was after M started sleeping in the closet, so obviously the family was fearful at this point. I just can't reconcile this in my mind. (I feel the same way about the windows being open in their bedroom - the explanation for the stalker knowing M was sleeping in the closet).

4. Tricia asked TI to let the websleuths look at some of this evidence she says she has and told her how amazing you all are with sleuthing and that there was a real possibility it could help solve this mystery...as far as I know she hasn't taken advantage of that opportunity. (Maybe she has done it outside of the forum, so I can't say that I know she hasn't, but it seems doubtful that no one here would have heard of any new evidence produced.)

I hope I haven't violated any TOS - I think I understand the rules, but this is my first post, so forgive me if I've said anything inappropriate. Nice to 'meet' you all!

Daria

Yes, yes, yes, yes! Great first post! Excellent points!

 

[MagnoliaMom]

So according to mom answering snowballs question regarding what clothes she was found in and were they the same clothes she had come home in that night...

Toni says NO, MORGAN DID NOT WEAR THE SKINNY GREEN JEANS THURS AFTERNOON/EVENING AND DI NOT HAVE THEM ON WHEN SHE CAME HOME AFTER 9pm..she doesnt say what she was wearing when she came inn Turs night just that it was not the green skinny jeans..she also says that when Morgan got home Thurs night that all of her hair was down and loose..and when found her hair was all pulled up as she wears it evry night to bed..

So imo thats strange..she has regualr street clothes of rather than her pj's..which wojld not be TOO STRANGE if the street clothes were simply what she had been wearing that night and fell asleep in those clothes..but thats nit the case..the case is that she had a totally different set of clothes on from what she'd worn that night..so she took the time to change clothes but instead of comfy pj's she instead puts on green skinny jeans...but yet pulls all her hair up as she does every night when prepping for bed..

Does it mean something really important and indicative of anything in particular?..no..but it is a bit strange to me..was she planning on seeing someone?..why else not just put pj's on when she took off her clothes she had on all afternoon/evening?

Based on the clothes that I pick up off the floor, girls don't have to be going anywhere to change clothes umpteen times then throw them all in the floor. Sometimes they are trying on things to decide what to wear for tomorrow or an upcoming event and sometimes they are taking pictures of themselves in different things to put on fb, instagram, etc.

MI was taking pictures of herself for her blog (and probably other social apps). Maybe she was doing a new blog post about skinny jeans or sending a pic to a friend asking their opinion of the jeans for the breakfast date the next morning. But that sure doesn't sound like someone suicidal IMO.

IMO she wasn't going to sneak out with all those cameras.

 

[laurafairlie]

Hi, Everyone!
I have been lurking on this thread from the onset and have finally decided to post - this case stays on my mind, partly because the mystery intrigues me and partly because I believe that M was a beautiful soul who I really identify with. I am also a creative/artsy type (I'm a professional photographer), I practice yoga and am into holistic health & organic foods, have a bohemian style, and have been described as an 'old soul'. My heart completely breaks for this family.

That being said, like many of you, I have questions/issues about several things that have been bothering me:

1. TI says on Tricia's radio show (around the 40 min mark) that she believes the stalker is a serial stalker and serial murderer. But she also strongly believes that she knows who it is and that they were out to get Morgan specifically. This is a little "off" to me - most serial stalkers/murderers choose their victims at random...they don't have a specific issue with the people they kill/stalk, they just enjoy doing it. It's hard for me to buy that it is BOTH a serial stalker/murderer AND that they specifically targeted M. Not saying it's not possible, just odd.

2. TI also says on the radio show (42 min) that after M was followed, LE made up posters that had the stalker's car make and model, HIS NAME, M's car, where they live, etc. When asked (later) to see these posters, TI said she has not even seen them. This seems really odd to me. I can't remember where I saw/heard that she hasn't seen them, but I will try to find it if someone wants a link.

3. TI says on the radio show (17:40) that she was in the front room of the house (her office) with lights on, curtains open, and the window open. This was after M started sleeping in the closet, so obviously the family was fearful at this point. I just can't reconcile this in my mind. (I feel the same way about the windows being open in their bedroom - the explanation for the stalker knowing M was sleeping in the closet).

4. Tricia asked TI to let the websleuths look at some of this evidence she says she has and told her how amazing you all are with sleuthing and that there was a real possibility it could help solve this mystery...as far as I know she hasn't taken advantage of that opportunity. (Maybe she has done it outside of the forum, so I can't say that I know she hasn't, but it seems doubtful that no one here would have heard of any new evidence produced.)

I hope I haven't violated any TOS - I think I understand the rules, but this is my first post, so forgive me if I've said anything inappropriate. Nice to 'meet' you all!

Daria

Welcome!

As to #2 in your post, it has been pointed out that this flier was distributed to law enforcement officers and the Ingrams were told about it by the detective assigned to the case. In my opinion, there is nothing suspicious about this.

 

[Snowball58]

Can someone please remind me what time Morgan came home on the night she died?

I'm thinking that maybe she typically slept in just a t-shirt, but because she was going to be up for a while longer (and maybe knew she'd be found the next morning, assuming a planned suicide), she also pulled on the comfy skinny jeans (they're stretchy) so that she had some pants on.

Even if she wasn't planning to kill herself, this would make sense if she thought she'd be up for a couple more hours, puttering around, so she changed into the t-shirt she planned to sleep in, added some pants, then would have just pulled off the pants and bra right before going to bed (when I lived at home as a young adult, I always remained fully clothed until just before bed, and didn't leave my room unless fully dressed.) And I run cold, so I always have socks or slippers on at home.

This also could explain why dad remembers that she had on her pajamas - he was half right. She had changed and maybe it was a t-shirt they were used to seeing her in at bedtime.

Even now, as a fully grown woman, when I come home from work I immediately wash my face, change in to my comfy sweats (sometimes leaving my jeans on, depends on what I was wearing that day and what clean laundry I have), then at bed time I take off the bra, socks and pants and sleep in my sweatshirt or t-shirt (depending on the season.) So the outfit actually doesn't give me pause at all, and makes sense in either a suicide or homicide scenario.

 

[browntabby1226]

Had a thought.... Researching smoking amitr. thought of it because of the positive for nicotine.

 

[nursebeeme]

Welcome!

As to #2 in your post, it has been pointed out that this flier was distributed to law enforcement officers and the Ingrams were told about it by the detective assigned to the case. In my opinion, there is nothing suspicious about this.

why wouldn't TI have seen this flier or have a copy if she has copies of the case file? That is strange to me:twocents::moo::twocents:

(she said she has copies of everything)

 

[laurafairlie]

Seriously, how are people seeing vests and long things under the arm and so forth? I just see a white blob that resembles a villainous snowman...a person, for sure, but that's about all I can say from that single image.

I'd also like to point out that 99% of all of the noises experienced were experienced by Morgan alone, and not the Ingrams. They saw the motion lights going on and off, which could have been wildlife. Toni saw someone on the porch - could have been any number of coincidental explanations for that. And they have one image (that we've seen, I'll revise my theory once I see any more) which could have been the other neighbor snooping around wondering what all the police activity was (it was the next day that he marched over demanding to know what was going on.)

When all of the stalking was just experienced by one person, and not corroborated by anyone else living in the home, isn't it possible that Morgan hallucinated it?

BBM

I do not agree that 99% of the incidents were experienced by Morgan only. There was one incident that occurred when Morgan wasn't even home. It's interesting how differently we can all view the same info. It has been suggested by some that TI was the one who experienced most of the incidents rather than Morgan.

 

[txsvicki]

Snowball. I can't quote for some reason. I can see very well that the person has something long under the arm and something on under the shirt. The pic seems clear and i can see hair and the tails of a doo rag are twisted then tied back. The hand is even visible. Toni seemed to think he was leaning on the car but he has something under the shirt making him look crooked and like he might be leaning.

 

[laurafairlie]

why wouldn't TI have seen this flier or have a copy if she has copies of the case file? That is strange to me:twocents::moo::twocents:

(she said she has copies of everything)

My understanding was that this was a internally circulated flier that she was only told about, not meant for public distribution. I'm not sure where exactly or in what context she said she had copies of everything. I must have missed that. Someone, I think Smoothoperator wrote a rather detailed post about the flier issue that in my opinion made a lot of sense. I'll have to try to find it. I don't find it strange that she doesn't have a copy of an internally circulated flier meant for members of law enforcement. JMO. Also, in what circumstance would she have gotten a copy of this? She has said she doesn't have the police reports. I don't recall where or in what context she said she has copies of everything or what she meant by everything. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[21merc7]

Bumping for us day-timers. Going to try to look through my own posts to see if posted any images, wouldn't hurt for us all to do the same.

Hi Everyone,

I have a favor to ask you. If you see any pictures or diagrams posted on Morgan's thread (or threads in the past) could you please alert on them?

We need to make sure we have permission to use the pictures and such first. If I can find them then I can see which ones we are allowed to keep on the forum and which ones need permission.

Thank you for your help.

Tricia








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[Snowball58]

BBM

I do not agree that 99% of the incidents were experienced by Morgan only. There was one incident that occurred when Morgan wasn't even home. It's interesting how differently we can all view the same info. It has been suggested by some that TI was the one who experienced most of the incidents rather than Morgan.

Even if there was one time they heard a tap, it could have been their heightened sensitivity after all the reports from Morgan, no?

I don't think there's any question that the stalking was almost exclusively experienced by Morgan (leaving room for one or two experienced by the parents, though I'm not convinced there were even that many.)

Morgan saw the dark clothed figure when she walked the dog. Morgan heard most, if not all, of the tapping and banging (in my house, I hear creaks and taps every day, but if I was being hypersensitive I might attribute those sounds to a stalker instead of run of the mill house sounds. Even a moth or bumble bee hitting the window makes a fairly audible "tap!" - in my house it's happened and been so loud it made me stop in my tracks). Morgan experienced being followed in her car twice. No one was with her for these things, and their extensive surveillance cameras captured nothing. Steve running out into the yard yielded nothing. The police, in 50+ visits, found nothing.

I know Toni and Steve experienced motion lights regularly, but how many times did they ACTUALLY hear knocking on the windows?

 

[Snowball58]

Snowball. I can't quote for some reason. I can see very well that the person has something long under the arm and something on under the shirt. The pic seems clear and i can see hair and the tails of a doo rag are twisted then tied back. The hand is even visible. Toni seemed to think he was leaning on the car but he has something under the shirt making him look crooked and like he might be leaning.

Wow - I'm impressed. I can't see any of these things and I've stared at that picture dozens of times, willing myself to see something.

Any chance you could post a mark up of that image and show what you're seeing? This could really be useful!

 

[nursebeeme]

My understanding was that this was a internally circulated flier that she was only told about, not meant for public distribution. I'm not sure where exactly or in what context she said she had copies of everything. I must have missed that. Someone, I think Smoothoperator wrote a rather detailed post about the flier issue that in my opinion made a lot of sense. I'll have to try to find it. I don't find it strange that she doesn't have a copy of an internally circulated flier meant for members of law enforcement. JMO. Also, in what circumstance would she have gotten a copy of this? She has said she doesn't have the police reports. I don't recall where or in what context she said she has copies of everything or what she meant by everything. Can you point me in the right direction?

no need to find the post by smoothoperator.

I am going off of my personal recollection from reading the blog and her comments as well as her interview on the radio show.

I don't think anyone really knows any concrete answers in this case, unfortunately.

:twocents:

 

[rollinginit]

Bumping for us day-timers. Going to try to look through my own posts to see if posted any images, wouldn't hurt for us all to do the same.

Originally Posted by Tricia
Hi Everyone,

I have a favor to ask you. If you see any pictures or diagrams posted on Morgan's thread (or threads in the past) could you please alert on them?

We need to make sure we have permission to use the pictures and such first. If I can find them then I can see which ones we are allowed to keep on the forum and which ones need permission.

Thank you for your help.

Tricia

I posted yesterday and asked if she was talking about images from the M's blog? Because those are the only images I remember being posted here.

If that is what they are talking about...there are some images in the media thread. And a bunch of pictures of the hunter's camera. There are a few scattered pictures of Morgan here and there..........but I really can't think of any other site that pictures were taken from other than M's blog.

 

[nursebeeme]

the blog and the face book page: re: images.

thank you for bumping Tricia's notice up merc.

 

[21merc7]

I posted yesterday and asked if she was talking about images from the M's blog? Because those are the only images I remember being posted here.

If that is what they are talking about...there are some images in the media thread. And a bunch of pictures of the hunter's camera. There are a few scattered pictures of Morgan here and there..........but I really can't think of any other site that pictures were taken from other than M's blog.

I remember a few of the house from zillow and the google maps images, but I don't think those need permission, IDK. Most are what you have mentioned, all from the blog.

 

[rollinginit]

the blog and the face book page: re: images.

thank you for bumping Tricia's notice up merc.

Thanks Nurse. I may be wrong...but I don't remember any pictures from a facebook page. I know there are links to facebook, but don't remember pictures.

There are blog pictures.

 

[deca]

There were lots of witnesses at that party M stopped at the last night- I wonder if they saw M carrying a drink or saw her accepting a drink or package etc.

 

[laurafairlie]

Even if there was one time they heard a tap, it could have been their heightened sensitivity after all the reports from Morgan, no?

I don't think there's any question that the stalking was almost exclusively experienced by Morgan (leaving room for one or two experienced by the parents, though I'm not convinced there were even that many.)

Morgan saw the dark clothed figure when she walked the dog. Morgan heard most, if not all, of the tapping and banging (in my house, I hear creaks and taps every day, but if I was being hypersensitive I might attribute those sounds to a stalker instead of run of the mill house sounds. Even a moth or bumble bee hitting the window makes a fairly audible "tap!" - in my house it's happened and been so loud it made me stop in my tracks). Morgan experienced being followed in her car twice. No one was with her for these things, and their extensive surveillance cameras captured nothing. Steve running out into the yard yielded nothing. The police, in 50+ visits, found nothing.

I know Toni and Steve experienced motion lights regularly, but how many times did they ACTUALLY hear knocking on the windows?

Anything is possible, re: hallucinations, but I don't find it that unusual that the person being stalked would be the one to experience the bulk of the stalking events. I also don't find it so easy to explain away TIs seeing someone on the porch or the person on the wildlife cam, but that's obviously my opinion.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't know why on earth quoting won't work for me most of the time, but doubt I can figure out how to mark up a pic on my kindle. Will try to see if it's possible though.