Conference aims to normalize pedophilia

I agree with swift and harsh punishment for offenders,I think we all do.
But right now nothing is being done as far as PREVENTION.
If we can change the mind of someone that has this attraction towards children,which is completely unexplainable to me,if this person can come out early in their life and state,through no fault of my own I have this attraction and I want help not to act on it.
I think that would be such a milestone if people COULD come out and ASK for help in dealing with something they have no control over.
 
I agree with swift and harsh punishment for offenders,I think we all do.
But right now nothing is being done as far as PREVENTION.
If we can change the mind of someone that has this attraction towards children,which is completely unexplainable to me,if this person can come out early in their life and state,through no fault of my own I have this attraction and I want help not to act on it.
I think that would be such a milestone if people COULD come out and ASK for help in dealing with something they have no control over.

If sexuality is innate and we have no control over who we are attracted to ..how does asking for help really help them or potential victims?

My understanding is that there are no mental illnesses that are curable, sometimes they are managed by medication, but as I think we see fairly regularly, once people are not plagued by whatever illness they have there is a tendency to stop taking the medication. (and of course there are exceptions to this, but I think it's fair to say it happens with regularity).

Why would they need to ask for help if they don't necessarily see what they do as something that is not only morally wrong but legally wrong? It's our fault (society at large) for not understanding their attraction.
 
If sexuality is innate and we have no control over who we are attracted to ..how does asking for help really help them or potential victims?

My understanding is that there are no mental illnesses that are curable, sometimes they are managed by medication, but as I think we see fairly regularly, once people are not plagued by whatever illness they have there is a tendency to stop taking the medication. (and of course there are exceptions to this, but I think it's fair to say it happens with regularity).

Why would they need to ask for help if they don't necessarily see what they do as something that is not only morally wrong but legally wrong? It's our fault (society at large) for not understanding their attraction.

Sexual orientation may be innate, but that doesn't mean that all sexual fetishes are innate and incurable. To date, I haven't heard of any successful cure for pedophilia, but that doesn't mean none will be discovered in the future. The conference in question hasn't been proposed as an alternative to imprisonment for pedophile offenders; on the contrary, it is intended to study those who do no act on their urges.

Traditionally it was held that psychoses were incurable, but "talk therapy" was designed to treat neuroses. With all the advancements in pharmaceuticals, I honestly don't know whether that still holds true.

Whether people stop taking their medication depends on the medication. As I understand it (i.e., not from personal experience), some of the meds for schizophrenia leave the patient feeling so dead inside that they tend to stop taking them. That doesn't necessarily mean the same is true of all psychotropic meds.
 
I think "pedophilia" has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with sexual orientation it is a completely different subject.I think it is more comparable to an addiction.
While they say an alcoholic always is an alcoholic even if he is sober,he makes the conscious decision not to drink,to stay away from alcohol because he is educated about the horrendous affects it would have on him and those around him.
The effects pedophiles have on the children around them is soooooo much worse.
So a pedophile can make the conscious decision to stay away from children and society can support him with that decision.
 
We don't know, do we? Because it hasn't been tried. I do hope that we're on the same page; I'm referring to people that have not offended.




I'm not sure we know if it's innate or not, do we? At any rate, I'm not advocating change so much as control.

It's as if talking to them will magically make them real. They are already real. Giving them tools to deal with their issues seems a better plan than letting them try to deal with it themselves.

What do you propose should be done about it?

"As reported by LifeSite News, on its own website “B4U-ACT classifies pedophilia as simply another sexual orientation and decries the ‘stigma’ attached to pedophilia, observing: ‘No one chooses to be emotionally and sexually attracted to children or adolescents. The cause is unknown; in fact, the development of attraction to adults is not understood.’ The group says that it does not advocate treatment to change feelings of attraction to children or adolescents.”


I find the bolded above, from this group mentioned in the article, very disturbing. Sweeping it under the rug does not protect children. I always feel the rights of the victim supercede the rights of the offender.
 
Here is the description from DSM-IV-TR: Pedophilia

This Paraphilia [A paraphilia involves sexual arousal and gratification towards sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme] is characterized by sexual activity with a child, usually age 13 or younger, or in the case of an adolescent, a child 5 years younger than the pedophile.

Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia
(cautionary statement)

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.

Specify if:

Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both

Specify if:

Limited to Incest

Specify type:

Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type
 
Just my 2cents compiled from some previous posts ...

A person with a pedophile orientation engages in learned deviant sexual behavior developed by a series of choices and related experiences and maintained by reinforcing consequences, just as other paraphilia (psychosexual disorder). Pedophilia is not a “mental” problem --- it is evil, a matter of choices and related value judgments. A pedophile orientation is LEARNED, not genetic, not a disease, not a condition of birth, etc. DSM-IV-TR includes many diagnostic categories that have nothing to do with “mental” disorders --- they are learned patterns of behavior subject to the basic principles of learning. Contrary to popular belief, emotions and desires are subject to the same principles of learning as overt behavior ... and the objects of desire and the focus and intensity of emotions change as a result of choices and behavior, including in the domain of the imagination. What you think about does make a difference. Real learning goes on in the domain of the imagination and you strengthen or weaken desires and emotions based on related thoughts. Paraphilia are cognitively and behaviorally “cultivated” by the individual ... some are relatively harmless (fetish for high heel shoes), some aren’t (pedophilia).

Technically, pedophilia involves sexual attraction to prepubescent children (generally younger than 14) by a person who is at least 16 years old and 5 years older than the victims (for females, typical preference is 8 to 10 year old). The sexual interest of the pedophile may be exclusively in children (exclusive type) or may also include adults (nonexclusive type). The pedophile may be attracted to females, males, or both. In addition to these differences, pedophiles differ according to intelligence, personality types, developmental histories, etc. I have found most to be more or less narcissistic, more or less otherwise antisocial, and more or less socially sophisticated. Some are simpleminded, socially immature, obvious, and direct. Others are intelligent, socially sophisticated, subtle and well-controlled. They may act completely alone or associate with and network with like-minded individuals.

In many cases, people who have the cognitive-behavioral-motivational characteristics of pedophiles (e.g., some serial killers) will go to great extremes to establish access to potential victims. Cognitively, they are constantly thinking about their potential prey and are reinforced by the successive approximations they accomplish with respect to gaining access (e.g., building a trusting relationship with the child, parents, community organizations). The PROCESS of gaining and maintaining access to the prey is as important and as reinforcing as any actual sexual OUTCOME (e.g., the hunter enjoys more than just the kill). In fact, except for necrophilia, the kill (murder and/or orgasm) is the end of pleasure and the beginning of punishment (work, such as cleaning up the mess, avoiding detection, getting rid of the body, etc).

Secrecy is a key part of any pedophile’s or (serial killer’s) psychological make-up. They must constantly lead two lives for their own survival. Much like an undercover agent, they must conceal their true motives. Unlike undercover agents, their cognitive-behavioral resources (time, energy, attention, etc.) are invested in deviant sexual activity, both in fantasy and overt behavior. The pedophile (and serial sexual sadist) enjoys and cultivates their deviant, self-serving fantasy life while using their overt behavior and life situation as a necessary cover.

Some pedophiles go to the victims and other have the victims come to them. They may gain access to their prey of choice simply by riding around until they spot a potential victim. However, others create conditions for victims to come to them in the course of their daily lives: through employment (school bus driver, school janitor, group home worker), volunteer activities (sports coach, scouts), religious activities (priest, Sunday school teacher), or organize fun activities for the neighborhood children, or just hang around schools, playgrounds, arcades, teen centers, bus stations, shopping malls, etc.

The pedophile’s deviant thoughts and successful deceptions combine to establish very real physiological attractions, a powerful learning process of cognitive conditioning (repeatedly stimulated by thoughts and shaped by fetish objects and pictures and reinforced by power and control and sexual arousal). “SECRET” pleasure that becomes increasingly powerful and expansive --- and there is a related willingness to run ever higher levels of risk. In fact, the perception of risk changes as the successes continue. The more practice, the less anxiety. Like any pattern of criminal conduct, the novelty wears off and the rewards must be increased.

Successful deceptions may be as reinforcing as any other form of power and control. The successful pedophile (and sexual sadist) will increasingly act out their fantasies until stopped by external events. Successful pedophiles become masters of dissimulation (acting other than the way they actually feel ... to disguise intentions). Each phase of development involves “antisocial” conditioning ... the person is acting against what they know is right, moral, and legal, thus actively and increasingly desensitizing themselves to social values and restraints. “It” systematically becomes their lifestyle and they may be willing to murder for their own “survival”. They are narcissistic masters of self-justification, truly self-made men.

Just my opinions,
Russell
 
And women. Don't forget the women in this discussion.

Salem
 
(Bold/Red/Underlined By Me)
Just my 2cents compiled from some previous posts ...

A person with a pedophile orientation engages in learned deviant sexual behavior developed by a series of choices and related experiences and maintained by reinforcing consequences, just as other paraphilia (psychosexual disorder). Pedophilia is not a “mental” problem --- it is evil, a matter of choices and related value judgments. A pedophile orientation is LEARNED, not genetic, not a disease, not a condition of birth, etc. DSM-IV-TR includes many diagnostic categories that have nothing to do with “mental” disorders --- they are learned patterns of behavior subject to the basic principles of learning. Contrary to popular belief, emotions and desires are subject to the same principles of learning as overt behavior ... and the objects of desire and the focus and intensity of emotions change as a result of choices and behavior, including in the domain of the imagination. What you think about does make a difference. Real learning goes on in the domain of the imagination and you strengthen or weaken desires and emotions based on related thoughts. Paraphilia are cognitively and behaviorally “cultivated” by the individual ... some are relatively harmless (fetish for high heel shoes), some aren’t (pedophilia).

Technically, pedophilia involves sexual attraction to prepubescent children (generally younger than 14) by a person who is at least 16 years old and 5 years older than the victims (for females, typical preference is 8 to 10 year old). The sexual interest of the pedophile may be exclusively in children (exclusive type) or may also include adults (nonexclusive type). The pedophile may be attracted to females, males, or both. In addition to these differences, pedophiles differ according to intelligence, personality types, developmental histories, etc. I have found most to be more or less narcissistic, more or less otherwise antisocial, and more or less socially sophisticated. Some are simpleminded, socially immature, obvious, and direct. Others are intelligent, socially sophisticated, subtle and well-controlled. They may act completely alone or associate with and network with like-minded individuals.

In many cases, people who have the cognitive-behavioral-motivational characteristics of pedophiles (e.g., some serial killers) will go to great extremes to establish access to potential victims. Cognitively, they are constantly thinking about their potential prey and are reinforced by the successive approximations they accomplish with respect to gaining access (e.g., building a trusting relationship with the child, parents, community organizations). The PROCESS of gaining and maintaining access to the prey is as important and as reinforcing as any actual sexual OUTCOME (e.g., the hunter enjoys more than just the kill). In fact, except for necrophilia, the kill (murder and/or orgasm) is the end of pleasure and the beginning of punishment (work, such as cleaning up the mess, avoiding detection, getting rid of the body, etc).

Secrecy is a key part of any pedophile’s or (serial killer’s) psychological make-up. They must constantly lead two lives for their own survival. Much like an undercover agent, they must conceal their true motives. Unlike undercover agents, their cognitive-behavioral resources (time, energy, attention, etc.) are invested in deviant sexual activity, both in fantasy and overt behavior. The pedophile (and serial sexual sadist) enjoys and cultivates their deviant, self-serving fantasy life while using their overt behavior and life situation as a necessary cover.
Some pedophiles go to the victims and other have the victims come to them. They may gain access to their prey of choice simply by riding around until they spot a potential victim. However, others create conditions for victims to come to them in the course of their daily lives: through employment (school bus driver, school janitor, group home worker), volunteer activities (sports coach, scouts), religious activities (priest, Sunday school teacher), or organize fun activities for the neighborhood children, or just hang around schools, playgrounds, arcades, teen centers, bus stations, shopping malls, etc.

The pedophile’s deviant thoughts and successful deceptions combine to establish very real physiological attractions, a powerful learning process of cognitive conditioning (repeatedly stimulated by thoughts and shaped by fetish objects and pictures and reinforced by power and control and sexual arousal). “SECRET” pleasure that becomes increasingly powerful and expansive --- and there is a related willingness to run ever higher levels of risk. In fact, the perception of risk changes as the successes continue. The more practice, the less anxiety. Like any pattern of criminal conduct, the novelty wears off and the rewards must be increased.

Successful deceptions may be as reinforcing as any other form of power and control. The successful pedophile (and sexual sadist) will increasingly act out their fantasies until stopped by external events. Successful pedophiles become masters of dissimulation (acting other than the way they actually feel ... to disguise intentions). Each phase of development involves “antisocial” conditioning ... the person is acting against what they know is right, moral, and legal, thus actively and increasingly desensitizing themselves to social values and restraints. “It” systematically becomes their lifestyle and they may be willing to murder for their own “survival”. They are narcissistic masters of self-justification, truly self-made men.

Just my opinions,
Russell

:goodpost: I hope you don't mind that I emphasized (bold/red/underlined) the key points (views) in your post that I felt were critically important to keep in mind when dealing with, and thereby understanding pedophilia.
 
They all should be locked up.

Our kids deserve at least that.

JMO

You want to lock up people for their thoughts, even if they haven't acted on those thoughts? That's a scary idea, Kim. I have trouble believing you really mean that.

All pedophiles should be locked up. Our kids deserve at least that.

IMO/JMO/MOO
 
Pedophiles are a very heterogeneous group ... e.g., in terms of intelligence, level of sophistication, interpersonal skills, hobbies and interests, general fund of knowledge, critical thinking skills, other types of criminal conduct, types of preferred victims (males, females, both, adults too? incest too or exclusively?), level of formal education, economic status, employment histories, community involvement, public and private reputations, marital status, children, friends, level of networking/contact with likeminded individuals, types of *advertiser censored*, level of risk-taking, age of onset of cognitive pedophilia (actively constructing and cultivating pedophilic fantasies) and actual behavioral acting-out (putting oneself in situations for the fantasies to develop, etc.), the frequency, intensity, and duration of sexual acting-out, history and types of abuse experienced as a victim (physical, sexual, mental), history of physical/mental disorders, history of “normal” sexual relationships, competing values and interests, motivation to change/manage sexual thoughts and related acting-out, current life situation, and related resources and support networks.

Are pedophiles candidates for treatment? It depends. Some are good candidates, some are terrible candidates. In combination, the treatment variables are very complex and difficult to measure and control – as are outcome measures, which may be delayed for years. Additionally, matching a pedophile motivated for treatment with a competent cognitive-behavioral professional willing to undertake the job is also a major hurdle. However, even paraprofessionals can be trained to provide the right type of therapeutic response to pedophiles -i.e., an adaptive response which specifically avoids reinforcing pedophilic thought and behavior.

Just my opinions,
Russell
 
Isn't that a good thing? Don't we want pedophiles to restrain themselves?

I don't know the blog cited, but if they have to go to Jerry Falwell's university to find an "expert" to incite panic, I question the standards of journalism.

So I'm not sure what this group hopes to accomplish. Defining attraction to any minor as "pedophilia" may be good law (for the protection of kids), but it's bad psychology. A 19-year-old who dates a 16-year-old isn't the same as a 50-year-old who molests 8-year-olds, even if both acts should be illegal.

BBM..... I guess if we are going to be oversensitive about homosexual references then I must point out that as a LU alum I am offended by your comment about my school and it's founder.
 
BBM..... I guess if we are going to be oversensitive about homosexual references then I must point out that as a LU alum I am offended by your comment about my school and it's founder.

Sorry if you are offended. The SAT scores of Liberty students speak for themselves. No doubt you were the exception.
 
...Just my opinions,
Russell

Russell, is there a simple answer as to how one "learns" to be a pedophile? I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds such attractions incomprehensible.
 
Sorry if you are offended. The SAT scores of Liberty students speak for themselves. No doubt you were the exception.

This is just uncalled for - where's the tolerance?
 
Russell, is there a simple answer as to how one "learns" to be a pedophile? I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds such attractions incomprehensible.

so now we're saying sexual attraction is learned and can be unlearned or at least refocused?
 
(Bold/Red By Me)
You want to lock up people for their thoughts, even if they haven't acted on those thoughts? That's a scary idea, Kim. I have trouble believing you really mean that.

Pedophiles are a very heterogeneous group ... e.g., in terms of intelligence, level of sophistication, interpersonal skills, hobbies and interests, general fund of knowledge, critical thinking skills, other types of criminal conduct, types of preferred victims (males, females, both, adults too? incest too or exclusively?), level of formal education, economic status, employment histories, community involvement, public and private reputations, marital status, children, friends, level of networking/contact with likeminded individuals, types of *advertiser censored*, level of risk-taking, age of onset of cognitive pedophilia (actively constructing and cultivating pedophilic fantasies) and actual behavioral acting-out (putting oneself in situations for the fantasies to develop, etc.), the frequency, intensity, and duration of sexual acting-out, history and types of abuse experienced as a victim (physical, sexual, mental), history of physical/mental disorders, history of “normal” sexual relationships, competing values and interests, motivation to change/manage sexual thoughts and related acting-out, current life situation, and related resources and support networks.

Are pedophiles candidates for treatment? It depends. Some are good candidates, some are terrible candidates. In combination, the treatment variables are very complex and difficult to measure and control – as are outcome measures, which may be delayed for years. Additionally, matching a pedophile motivated for treatment with a competent cognitive-behavioral professional willing to undertake the job is also a major hurdle. However, even paraprofessionals can be trained to provide the right type of therapeutic response to pedophiles -i.e., an adaptive response which specifically avoids reinforcing pedophilic thought and behavior.

Just my opinions,
Russell

Hi Nova! No, I for one don't want to lock anyone up for their thoughts however, I do believe that any professional therapeutic measures used to treat pedophilia that subscribe to the use of fantasy by pedophiles as harmless, so long as they don't act out, is the equivilent of holding a lit match to a fuse. That, IMO, only serves to reinforce pedophilic thought and behavior. While we can't control or even know what anyone is truly thinking, if true treatment is sought by a sexual deviant, the first admission must be the deviant thoughts that build up/lead to their acting out. Again, while I do not support anyone being arrested for their thoughts (in this case, fantasies), pedophilic fantasies should not be viewed as harmless - IMO they will eventually and inevitably lead to great harm that creates a victim. JMO.
 
BBM..... I guess if we are going to be oversensitive about homosexual references then I must point out that as a LU alum I am offended by your comment about my school and it's founder.

It's impossible to be "oversensitive" when references are made to homosexuality and pedophilia within the same context. The two have no relationship and the insinuation that both can be discussed as variants of sexual behavior is an insult to millions of people on the planet and those who love them. As for Jerry Falwell, there's no excuse for him. Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality are all variants of human (and non human) sexuality. Pedophilia is an entirely different criminal, deviant and sick behavior.
 
It's impossible to be "oversensitive" when references are made to homosexuality and pedophilia within the same context. The two have no relationship and the insinuation that both can be discussed as variants of sexual behavior is an insult to millions of people on the planet and those who love them. As for Jerry Falwell, there's no excuse for him. Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality are all variants of human (and non human) sexuality. Pedophilia is an entirely different criminal, deviant and sick behavior.

The original complaint was not that anyone made comparisons of homosexuality and pedophilia, the original complaint was that a reference for article came from Liberty University.

There is a theory that attraction to children is just as innate as any other sexual attraction. Why that should be more offensive to homosexuals than heterosexuals is confusing to me. It should be offensive to all of us right?
 

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