Conrad Murray trial -Day two.

[Melanie]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/tab/live

tmz.com is also really good for live streaming w/no/commercials. I've been using their site for the last couple of days and it's been working better than CNN.

But turn it off during the breaks. They usually pan to the unoosual fans signing MJ's hits. Listening to them for an hour on end can drive ya a little batty.

Mel

 

[~n/t~]

I think Klein is being used as the fall guy.

It was obvious that MJ was having work down on his face and we all know he did have a serious skin disease called vililago which can cause the skin to develop rashes and have abraded places on it. MJ knew he had to look the best he could if he was going to preform under hot lights for 50 shows with a full house every time. And whatever Klein was doing certainly showed. In This Is It he looks nothing like he did back in 2005.

As far as the treatment he gave him that is yet to be determined or the drugs he used to ease the pain caused by the treatments he was giving him or the fillers he was using.

There was absolutely no Demerol in MJs system and MJ certainly had no idea when he was going to die. So he had no prior warning. He died with what Murray had administered to him only......not what Klein gave him.

If Judge Pastor thought Klein had any relevancy in the death of MJ he would have allowed the DT to call him as a witness.

So imo Klein has become the convenient scapegoat for the defense.

IMO

I think what the defense is trying to prove is MJ was addicted way before Dr. Conrad was hired.

They did score some points, imo. I question why MJ wanted Dr. Conrad at all cost when there was so much concern about UK licensing fees, equipment , and could've gotten anyone else overseas but MJ kept wanting them to negotiate with Dr. C. It also puts doubt on motive. Why would Dr. Conrad want MJ dead? He signed a contract for $150,000 a month. That's a heck of a lot of money.

The biggest defense mistake is they're putting MJ (the victim) on trial and that may be a costly mistake. They should focus on Dr. Conrad's experience and credentials. Perhaps their tactic will work ....based on other celebrity trials or not.

 

[21merc7]

Seems to me the defense is showing how personal drs and nurses were contacted by MJs team members and vice versa. As opposed to calling to anybody on the outside for medical issues.

I dont feel like this witness is being 100 % honest. jmo

Maybe that was one of MJ's impositions on them. It's not like MJ could just go to an emergency room and not be fawned on by everyone in there. The man couldn't go anywhere with out hordes of people trying to touch him. Security had to be in place before he could even go to a doctor's appointment, take a walk, remember the sad yet cute grocery store trip - probably the one and only he and the children got to go on.

In addition, it sounds as if Dr. Murray did not tell anyone MJ was dead. He just said "had a reaction." Well, had a reaction to me means an allergic reaction. So, I would think we had time to get security properly in place to get him to ER or get another doctor into the house with an epi-pen, since Dr. Murray did not seem to know what to do for "a reaction." jmo

 

[BOZGAL]

Thanks

Could charges be brought against someone else if info is testified to?

Good Morning one and all :cup:


The only drugs found in Michael's system were ordered, purchased and administered by defendant. No one else to charge no matter what the media says.

Personally I believe this Demoral mania by DT is just hogwash. If Michael was addicted to Demoral defendant simply could have ordered a boatload of it for him and administered it whenever he wanted. We all know he had no qualms ordering DRUGS. It simply makes no sense to say someone is addicted to a drug and then they only have it several times a week. DT is at a loss for a defense and is tossing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

jmho

 

[luckyme]

Who was MJs DR before Murray? Who introduced the milk? :seeya:

 

[~n/t~]

Who was MJs DR before Murray? Who introduced the milk? :seeya:

Meet Four Defense Witnesses for Conrad Murray

Dr. Adams is an ANESTHESIOLOGIST who administered propofol to Michael Jackson four times for dental procedures. Both the defense and the prosecution agree that Adams only administered propofol to Jackson four times. However, their timelines do not agree, as the defense claims Adams administered propofol in March or April, 2009, yet Adams claims in court documents he last worked on Jackson in December, 2008.

http://mjandjustice4some.blogspot.com/2011/08/meet-four-defense-witnesses-for-conrad.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think what the defense is trying to prove is MJ was addicted way before Dr. Conrad was hired.

They did score some points, imo. I question why MJ wanted Dr. Conrad at all cost when there was so much concern about UK licensing fees, equipment , and could've gotten anyone else overseas but MJ kept wanting them to negotiate with Dr. C. It also puts doubt on motive. Why would Dr. Conrad want MJ dead? He signed a contract for $150,000 a month. That's a heck of a lot of money.

The biggest defense mistake is they're putting MJ (the victim) on trial and that may be a costly mistake. They should focus on Dr. Conrad's experience and credentials. Perhaps their tactic will work ....based on other celebrity trials or not.

Morning,

Actually it didn't seem MJ wanted Murray at all cost. It seems it was on Murray's own accord that he threw out the ridiculous 5 Million salary..not Michael. I think Murray tried to do a lot of this behind MJs back trying to handle it through AEG..excluding MJ. Another one trying to take full advantage because Michael was the patient, imo. AEG told Murray that was not going to happen. They told CM that he would have to talk to MJ..not them. So the amount went way down and that was decided by Michael and once Murray knew the salary amount came from MJ he either could accept it or move on. It was Murray's choice. If Murray could have negotiated the 5 million without MJ.....he would have, imo. He was trying to do just that when AEG told him the salary would have to be accepted and signed off by MJ.

The thing is Michael never signed the contract concerning Dr. Murray and MJ was known as a very efficient businessman. Of all contracts that had to be signed why wouldn't MJ move quickly when signing off on this one particular contract?

Imo, I think MJ was having second thoughts about Murray and his capabilities in the week before Murray killed him. The security guard call Nurse Lee on June 22 instead of Murray because he was feeling ill. Maybe by then MJ knew Murray's answer for everything was 'just put a jacket on him' and would be totally unconcerned with the wellbeing of his patient. Murray's answer to everything seemed to be just buy more and more propofol.

This is an involuntary manslaughter case. They aren't saying that Murray had a motive to kill MJ. Good grief..Michael was Murray's cash cow. That is why it is unexplainable why Murray was so reckless and derelict in his duties that he preferred being on the phone for 47 minutes and left the room entirely rather than monitoring his patient like he was required and paid to do.

Now a lot of people do have the opinion it should have been charged out as Murder 2 since the actions or inactions were such a gross deviation from the standard of care due that it shows Murray had no regard for human life. Nancy Grace is one of the ones that believes it was murder and there are other attorneys that believe the same.

I didn't see any points made by the DT and I have watched gavel to gavel since it started. What has been shown is Murray is about money and will do anything to get it. It has shown that the day MJ died it wasnt about MJ and trying to save his life. It was all about creating illusions for Murray so that he would be seen trying to save a man he knew was already dead.

I was very interested when the lawyer for AEG said Murray called her back and wanted his salary to go into a company name of his. Was he trying to hide money? Imo, I think so. I would like to know if this company is even legitimate or was just a front in order to hide money from his many creditors.

IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

Does anyone recall if Dr. Murray did go back to the house after MJ's death?

Who was it that Dr. Murray had help him clean up the room and wasn't that before EMS arrived?

Micheal Amir (sp?)Williams or Alveraz .. Not quite sure CNNs feed was really screwy the first day.

I think what the defense is trying to prove is MJ was addicted way before Dr. Conrad was hired.

They did score some points, imo. I question why MJ wanted Dr. Conrad at all cost when there was so much concern about UK licensing fees, equipment , and could've gotten anyone else overseas but MJ kept wanting them to negotiate with Dr. C. It also puts doubt on motive. Why would Dr. Conrad want MJ dead? He signed a contract for $150,000 a month. That's a heck of a lot of money.

The biggest defense mistake is they're putting MJ (the victim) on trial and that may be a costly mistake. They should focus on Dr. Conrad's experience and credentials. Perhaps their tactic will work ....based on other celebrity trials or not.

They arent saying he did it on purpose, just that his action directly resulted in the death of MJ.

I too think they did make points. IMO I just havent seen where Murray is released from being reasonably responsible of being the one to order and admin all those drugs. The reasonable doubt they need is in did Micheal have people sneak in behind Murrays back . Was security helping him hide another proffesional running concurrent with Murray being there ? Was someone scoring him the same drugs by illegal means? Lots of things could come into play still.

(I havent followed this case so I know nothing about witness ,news stories ,history I didnt even follow the reports from when he died)

Showing MJ and his staff were kinda shady and things were only on a need to know and dont ask or tell level in all aspects. I also think the timeframe of the security staffs employment is interesting.

I have not heard about micheal having a drive to only want Dr Murray. My guess is he wanted someone he already knew and he already knew Murray.

Whole new meaning to the phase "you have to know somebody " IMO.

 

[~n/t~]

Yes involuntary manslaughter is what he's being tried for. But if it was accidental...it should've been a civil case for malpractice. Voluntary or involuntary ...the result is the same. It becomes a criminal case.

I watched when AEG was on the stand (sorry don't recall his name). AND I clearly recall him saying that he did not want doctor Murray because of concerns (overseas licensing etc), $5 million, etc but MJ was the one who wanted him to continue negotiating with Dr. C.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Who was MJs DR before Murray? Who introduced the milk? :seeya:

From what I have read the first doctor to do this was back in the 90s when MJ was on tour overseas in Germany. The doctor was a board certified anesthesiologist and had a mini-clinic when he was with him in Germany. I cant remember his name now. But MJ has given interviews where he talks about his insomnia especially when he is in a foreign country or having to do rehearsals and shows. MJs mind never stopped thinking. He wasnt just the song and dance man.......he did it all from the lighting....coreagraphy right down to designing the tickets for the shows.

Dr. Adams used propofol when he did dental procedures on MJ when MJ and the children lived in LV in 2006, iirc.

I do know some dentists or oral surgeons that do use propofol. They will even use it on small children who are usually terrified of any extensive dental work that has to be done. They have an anesthesiologist come in or have one on duty and administer the propofol and constantly monitor the patient and have the proper equipment in place.

Propofol is a very very safe drug and is used everyday all across our country in hospitals, clinics etc with great success. As long as the person administering it is qualified and the patient is monitored at all times with emergency equipment in place it is very safe.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes involuntary manslaughter is what he's being tried for. But if it was accidental...it should've been a civil case for malpractice. Voluntary or involuntary ...the result is the same. It becomes a criminal case.

I watched when AEG was on the stand (sorry don't recall his name). AND I clearly recall him saying that he did not want doctor Murray because of concerns (overseas licensing etc), $5 million, etc but MJ was the one who wanted him to continue negotiating with Dr. C.

But none of Murray's actions were mistakes or accidental, n/t. He made a conscious decision to use his phone for 47 minutes and to leave the room of his patient who he had sedated with propofol and benzos. That isn't by accident. That was conscious choices Murray directly made.

Because he put other things as having more priority to him at the time than tending to his patient MJ died from that gross deviation of care expected by all doctors who take a Hippocratic oath to do no harm.

As far as MJ wanting a doctor that he knew from this country to travel with him I don't find that odd. He knew Murray from the past when he had treated his children for colds in LV and Murray had been to MJs home before with one of his lady friends in 2007. MJ trusted Murray and that was his fatal mistake for which he paid the ultimate price but MJ was known to trust those who would turnout later on to be really untrustworthy.

 

[Soulmagent]

Yes involuntary manslaughter is what he's being tried for. But if it was accidental...it should've been a civil case for malpractice. Voluntary or involuntary ...the result is the same. It becomes a criminal case.

I watched when AEG was on the stand (sorry don't recall his name). AND I clearly recall him saying that he did not want doctor Murray because of concerns (overseas licensing etc), $5 million, etc but MJ was the one who wanted him to continue negotiating with Dr. C.

He did say that. I had forgotten . I am taking that with a grain of salt.

I am leaning toward everyone trying to hide MJ's problems from everyone. I also think it will continue though out this trial. I think Murrays anger yesterday and not a williams the personal assistant but the anger at the cheif of security tells a story and I cant wait to see what the defence has instore for him.


I will be paying close attention to where the defence goes outside the scope with the witness.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He did say that. I had forgotten . I am taking that with a grain of salt.

I am leaning toward everyone trying to hide MJ's problems from everyone. I also think it will continue though out this trial. I think Murrays anger yesterday and not a williams the personal assistant but the anger at the cheif of security tells a story and I cant wait to see what the defence has instore for him.


I will be paying close attention to where the defence goes outside the scope with the witness.

I hope the next witness is Alberto Alvarez and after then the EMTs that were called to the mansion.

Their testimony will bolster what AA will testify to, imo.

The EMT that went looking for Murray so they could leave to transport MJ saw him stuffing the drugs in the black bag and the black bag was found in the hidden closet compartment.

IMO, they will also testify as to how they thought MJ had been dead for at least 20 minutes or even longer before they even arrived. That too will bolster the security guards testimony that he did not ask for 911 to be called right away and AA is the one who finally called 911 after Murray told him to pick up the drugs and put them in a bag.

IMO

 

[21merc7]

"Two paramedics who tried to save Michael Jackson's life are expected to give evidence later at the manslaughter trial of the singer's doctor, Conrad Murray.


Martin Blount and Richard Senneff are expected to say that Jackson already appeared to be dead when they arrived at his rented Holmby Hills home on June 25, 2009.

The court is also due to hear from another key witness - Jackson's personal chef Kai Chase."

more at link:

http://www.jackbristol.com/news/showbiz/jackson-trial-rescue-bid-paramedics-in-court-16079217/

 

[Isabelle]

Did either of the witnesses yesterday cover the clean-up of the room prior to EMS arrival?

 

[BOZGAL]

Does anyone recall if Dr. Murray did go back to the house after MJ's death?

Who was it that Dr. Murray had help him clean up the room and wasn't that before EMS arrived?

GM Isabelle - sorry I missed this earlier

Yes he did but not sure if by taxi or g/f gave him a ride. At that point the house was locked so he would not have gained entrance.

Security guy Alberto Alvarez

jmho

 

[BOZGAL]

Did either of the witnesses yesterday cover the clean-up of the room prior to EMS arrival?

No but Alvarez will be called this morning.

 

[~n/t~]

He did say that. I had forgotten . I am taking that with a grain of salt.

I am leaning toward everyone trying to hide MJ's problems from everyone. I also think it will continue though out this trial. I think Murrays anger yesterday and not a williams the personal assistant but the anger at the cheif of security tells a story and I cant wait to see what the defence has instore for him.


I will be paying close attention to where the defence goes outside the scope with the witness.

I noticed the tension as well. I think we'll see some shocking security breaches when the defense puts on their case. I wasn't impressed with the "head of security". Leaves to go to the bank with wife? His shift had just started. Also, he didn't know where some of the cameras were. Isn't that a priority? I know it must've been total chaos and very emotional on that day but I think we'll hear some unfavourable security issues at MJ's house before and after this happened. What were MJ's kids doing in the same room? Wasn't it his job to ensure they weren't watching all of this as it happened? I don't think it was the doctor's job. They shouldn't have been there to begin with. Where was head of security? Oh that's right. He was at the bank. Oh oh.

 

[BOZGAL]

Who was MJs DR before Murray? Who introduced the milk? :seeya:

DR Neil Ratner is the anesthesiologist who travelled with Michael during the History tour.
ETA: DR Ratner had all the necessary medical equipment needed for this.

I would assume Michael had Propofol first either during a medical or dental procedure but not sure exactly when since that is private medical information.

jmho

 

[Isabelle]

No but Alvarez will be called this morning.

I hope AA is called this am. I actually live to hear his testimony. I think it will clearly show consciousness of guilt, added to the fact that Murray didn't call 911. Stupid should be painful, am sure you would agree with that!