Contaminated Evidence or New Knife Found at Crime Scene?

[websurfer]

Where did you see that shoes were recovered? We have been discussing those and we must have missed it!

I missed it too..
about shoes...

 

[treciama]

In the County Forensics Reports Part Two, there is a list of evidence provided by specific dates. See Tuesday, December 16, 2008

» County Forensics Reports Part 2
http://www.wftv.com/news/18530366/detail.html

"At approximately 1511 hours I arrived at the Evidence Section and had a meeting with Detectives Melich and Edwards regarding the inspection of the following piece of evidence:

Art 1, Item # H-51975 (Sealed Box)

From the evidence mentioned above I collected the following Items:

- Black Plastic Bag with yellow pull handles.
- Pull-ups "with flowers design" collected from back pack "Adorable".
- Stainless steel knife.

The box was sealed and returned to the Evidence Intake, Mrl Terry Gorman. I returned to the forensics Unit and I secured the evidence mentioned above in my evidence locker.

At 1730 hours in the Forensics Unit I had a meeting with Karen Cowan from the FBI and I informed her about the evidence mentioned above. After reviewing the evidence she agreed to collect the evidence at a later time for further examination.
,
This brings up a load of questions for me:

1) No where else is a knife mentioned being found at the Caylee crime scene (only in the car when it was found months before). If it is the previous knife, car evidence should not have been included in a sealed box along with evidence from the other crime scene (possible contamination)

2) If it is a new knife, why wasn't it mentioned along with the other findings of the T-shirt, shorts, etc., i.e., what else is missing?

3) If this a new knife that was found at the Caylee crime scene, why did not LE seek Knife sets in their search warrants?

4) Who else had access to the room when the tech left to deliver the rest of the items in the box back to the evidence room?

5) The FBI lady said that the knife and other items were worth examination, but I can not find where she picked them up (could have missed it). Were they examined?


Any one have any other thoughts on this or other similar evidence questions?

I've spent a lot of time reviewing the evidence doc's to sort out the knife question. Though I see lots of confusion in various reports and blogs, I believe there is only one knife in evidence and that it was taken along with the mess of food wrappers, etc. from the car. That knife was originally logged in as evidence described as a "dinner knife".

The recently released evidence doc's from the OC Sheriff's Office included various new notes that dealt with (1) stuff recovered from the body scene and (2) stuff retrieved from evidence storage to make it available to Henry Lee who came to inspect the car and stuff taken from the car, as well as the garbage bag retrieved from the dumpster.

The OCSO evidence report reflected the return of the Henry Lee stuff into evidence storage.... in the area of the report immediately following the listing of evidence from the body scene. In describing the knife being returned after Lee's inspection, it was described as a "Stainless Steel Knife" but careful reading shows that it was returned to the exact numbered evidence box that held the items taken from the car. So, as best I can tell, it seems that there was a mistaken report (from WFTV) that erroneously reported that a knife was found at the body scene...and that spawned a further string of reports and comments to that effect.

I know others believe there are two knives involved in this case and I may be wrong. I only spent this much time on the Q since I think it would be REMARKABLY intriguing evidence if there WAS a knife at the body scene, but so far I think the only knife was probably just related to Casey's use of the car as a fast food dining table.

 

[ROBLYN]

Confused???

I thought there was only one knife. People magizine has reported that " A stainless steel knife was also found IN THE trash bag with Caylee's remains." Out today dated February 9.

Could they have gotten mis-information?

 

[Jay D]

Confused???

I thought there was only one knife. People magizine has reported that " A stainless steel knife was also found IN THE trash bag with Caylee's remains." Out today dated February 9.

Could they have gotten mis-information?

This subject, if resolved, should be posted in the mythbuster's thread. Would clear up all of the confusion (And I am one of the confused). Any volunteers?

 

[Hot Dogs]

This subject, if resolved, should be posted in the mythbuster's thread. Would clear up all of the confusion (And I am one of the confused). Any volunteers?

It's already in the myth busters thread. Many other threads too.

 

[fortytwo]

Confused???

I thought there was only one knife. People magizine has reported that " A stainless steel knife was also found IN THE trash bag with Caylee's remains." Out today dated February 9.

Could they have gotten mis-information?

Yes. The "Second Knife" myth was born when WFTV rushed out a "Breaking News" report hours (minutes?) after misreading the 1.21.09 doc dump. I think every news outlet in the country has a browser tab permanently set to them since they seem to be one of the first cited when new stuff happens.

Since then it has spread like lice in a grade school. The foot has become way too large for anyone to be able to pry out of their mouths.

 

[ROBLYN]

This subject, if resolved, should be posted in the mythbuster's thread. Would clear up all of the confusion (And I am one of the confused). Any volunteers?

Jay D,

Thanks for responding, will go look at that thread.

 

[ROBLYN]

Yes. The "Second Knife" myth was born when WFTV rushed out a "Breaking News" report hours (minutes?) after misreading the 1.21.09 doc dump. I think every news outlet in the country has a browser tab permanently set to them since they seem to be one of the first cited when new stuff happens.

Since then it has spread like lice in a grade school. The foot has become way too large for anyone to be able to pry out of their mouths.

fortytwo,

Thanks for the claification.

 

[Rumpole]

Yes. The "Second Knife" myth was born when WFTV rushed out a "Breaking News" report hours (minutes?) after misreading the 1.21.09 doc dump. I think every news outlet in the country has a browser tab permanently set to them since they seem to be one of the first cited when new stuff happens.

Since then it has spread like lice in a grade school. The foot has become way too large for anyone to be able to pry out of their mouths.

Well done.

I think that wraps it up once and for all for this second knife rumour.

....... or does it?

I have seen other threads where posters still swear by it. NG said it. It MUST be true.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Making note: Only one very tampered with washed and dried knife by Cindy after being found in car with Caylee's decomp in this case. Gotcha!

 

[Rumpole]

Making note: Only one very tampered with washed and dried knife by Cindy after being found in car with Caylee's decomp in this case. Gotcha!

Do you think Cindy found a knife in the Pontiac?

Do you think Cindy gave LE the correct knife or another one?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

A) As often as she has side stepped the truth, it is difficult to come to that conclusion. We only know what Cindy said she found in the car.

B) As often as she has side stepped the truth, it is difficult to come to that conclusion. We only know what Cindy said she gave them as being the same knife.

Revising note to self: Knife said to be found inside car is now in considerable question as being the same knife or ever being inside car. OCSO has ONE knife in their possession which came from Cindy. No proof connecting it to the car.

 

[sheribaaby]

Let me try to clarify the misconception that there are two kitchen knives.

On July 16 the Pontiac was sealed and transported to the Forensics garage. When it arrived Det. Beasley provided the CSI II a plastic bag containing:

Doll
Backpack
Child's tooth brush
Black leather bag
Various papers
Dinner knife
Blue plastic crate
Plastic clothes hangers
​

The above are articles 3 - 10 in Item # H-51975.

On Dec 16., Melich and Edwards visit the CSI-II and collect the following items from Item # H-51975:

Black plastic bag with yellow pull handles
Pull-ups "with flower design" collected from back pack "Adorable"
Stainless steel knife.
​

Note that the items requested on Dec. 16 were recovered from the Pontiac on July 16.

So what is going on? Simple...

1. The garbage bag was requested to see if it matches up with the one found with the body.
2. The pull-ups were requested to see if they match one found with the remains.
3. The knife was requested to see if it was used to cut the duct tape.

IMHO...

ITA!! :clap:

 

[Hot Dogs]

A) As often as she has side stepped the truth, it is difficult to come to that conclusion. We only know what Cindy said she found in the trunk.

The gray pants were in the backseat area according to CA. She gave them to LE. She didn't even have to mention them if she didn't want to. How would they know if there were any pants in the car? Maybe she actually found blue jeans and switched them for the grays.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe she did, Hot Dogs. At this point, nothing is going to surprise me. Perhaps the only reason she mentioned them was because George said it was what she was wearing when he saw her leave for work (which we don't know even happened). It would be sticking with a single story and mean that Casey had changed clothing after leaving the house that day which would be to Casey's benefit, imo.

ETA: I changed my other post to read car instead of trunk.

 

[fortytwo]

The gray pants were in the backseat area according to CA. She gave them to LE. She didn't even have to mention them if she didn't want to. How would they know if there were any pants in the car? Maybe she actually found blue jeans and switched them for the grays.

Very well said.

It is far too easy to fall into the trap of starting with a conclusion and then selecting facts to fit.

If anything that CA voluntarily offered to LE from the car can be assumed to be legitimate then there is no reason to question any of the rest without some cause.

 

[Ripley007]

A lot of people have seen what they 'think' is a book at the crime scene. This was first brought up by either a TV news item or an article in the Orlando Sentinal, I can't remember, and the posters here did an awesome job of trying to pin down whether it was a book or not and what else is in the crime scene photos.

Unfortunately, there is no definitive picture at this time and some posters don't think there was a book. So while some may think they have seen the book, others don't. I am one who doesn't think there was a book at the scene. After reding the latest reports, if a little horse was mentioned as being found at the scene, I think a book and any other children's articles, such as stuffed animals, etc. would have been mentioned too. I guess we will just have to wait until the trial or further document dumps to see whether or not there was a book at the scene.

I agree. I'm not convinced of a book being seen in the crime scene photos. Couldn't the yellow item have been an old yard sale sign blown back into the woods. I'm not convinced either that Caylee owned the "Frieda" book shown in the Nursing Home visit video. I've posted about this before. (Any locals take me up on my request to visit this NH to see if this book is available in a family lounge area?) Still. I feel like an outsider. But, jmho. It's ok.

Upon learning about the toy plastic horse, I would LOVE to hear/learn more more about this item.

Also the WPooh blanket. WAS this blanket replaced in Caylee's B-room or was in it fact missing from her original set?

 

[Rumpole]

I agree. I'm not convinced of a book being seen in the crime scene photos. Couldn't the yellow item have been an old yard sale sign blown back into the woods. I'm not convinced either that Caylee owned the "Frieda" book shown in the Nursing Home visit video. I've posted about this before. (Any locals take me up on my request to visit this NH to see if this book is available in a family lounge area?) Still. I feel like an outsider. But, jmho. It's ok.

Upon learning about the toy plastic horse, I would LOVE to hear/learn more more about this item.

Also the WPooh blanket. WAS this blanket replaced in Caylee's B-room or was in it fact missing from her original set?

I'm not convinced it was a book (had me fooled on that one item though), just a "something" maybe trash? I am even less inclined to say "book" having seen the appalling misinformation in the press latey, and the way rumours grow even within WS.
However, there may be some items of evidence we simply do not know.

 

[Ripley007]

Thought it said: top, white shorts with vertical stripes, white shoes. I looked at wftv, wesh, foxorlando, orlando sentinel and cfl news. Hard to say which at this point.

What drives me crazy are these reports that are mix of the vague and the particular. For example, we are told white shorts with vertical stripes are found in the "body bag" and a "toddler size 3 shirt". Ok. What color was the shirt? Long sleeve? Short sleeve? What other characterics? Why leave out the one defining characteric that might link the shirt found with the last shirt Caylee was ever (REALLY) seen wearing? (Excluding the "bogus" GA 16th statement)

 

[Macushla]

I agree. I'm not convinced of a book being seen in the crime scene photos. Couldn't the yellow item have been an old yard sale sign blown back into the woods. I'm not convinced either that Caylee owned the "Frieda" book shown in the Nursing Home visit video. I've posted about this before. (Any locals take me up on my request to visit this NH to see if this book is available in a family lounge area?) Still. I feel like an outsider. But, jmho. It's ok.

Upon learning about the toy plastic horse, I would LOVE to hear/learn more more about this item.

Also the WPooh blanket. WAS this blanket replaced in Caylee's B-room or was in it fact missing from her original set?

I am so glad I am not the only one who didn't see a book at the crime scene. A sign is a good guess, it looked to thin to be a book to me - what I could see of it anyway. I also didn't see the photo, or any of the other possibilities discussed on that crime scene thread. To me, it was a yellow blob surrounded by lots and lots of leaves, tree roots and debris. I hope we get to see clearer pictures of the area at some point to see who was right and who was wrong!

Of course just to muddy the water, I could claim to have heard the 'knife' was fuond under the 'book'. THAT WAS A JOKE, honest.