Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #51

[LadyL]

Lol. I thought your photo got deleted because I couldn’t find it. Then this one popped up in my timeline so I figured it was a good replacement.

maybe it did idk

 

[LadyL]

I'm thinking cruise ship. A prison, by definition, contains the inmates together with the shedding virus. They can't escape it. Releasing low-level/risk inmates means fewer numbers inhouse to deal with. As for the infected inmates, they are probably being removed too (sent to hospital).

I did hear today that Gary Ridgeway - the Greenriver killer is not going anywhere!

you want to send criminals on vacation? even with the ship just sitting there, they will feel like they're on vacation IMO

 

[Trino]

I am sure that there will be a 2nd wave. And it will be much worse.

Nothing I can do about it, but wait for it.

It seems the focus is on reopening. I just want to scream, "NO. It's not time yet." I understand the economy, the job loses, but I also understand daily case statistics and deaths. I also understand there will be a second wave. Let me scream again. "NO!"

 

[Satchie]

I have not been around for the past few days, this virus is truly scaring me. My step daughter had a heat attack at 39 years old and she tested positive for the virus. My state is supposed to come off of lockdown on 4/30 and I think it is too soon. I am not ready to be around my co-workers and I am still having anxiety attacks whenever I have to venture out 2 days a week.
If I don't return to work, I will probably be fired. What do you do?? I may have posted this earlier and I am sorry if this is a duplicate, my mind is mush. If I was 20 years old, I would not be scared.

ETA, my step daughter is doing fine.

I think you're right to be concerned and you won't be the only one, so will your colleagues. You will, all of you, have the right to ask (demand!) proper controls to protect yourselves.

The anxiety is not helping, is there any mental health resource you can access by phone or online? JMO, but spending time online is probably making it worse. Is there someone in your life who can personally reassure you when your mind gets spinning?

 

[JaneEyre]

Had to go to the vet today for a sick duck. (Yes I’ll spend money on a sick duck.). I am thankful at the moment they are essential. No one but employees were allowed inside the building, doctors were only allowed to interact with you over the phone, techs interacted with the people. Did my best to maintain social distancing, others not so much. First time I’ve been in public and have been able to watch people’s behavior instead of running in and out. Not a lot of sense regarding social distancing, instead of walking behind cars (I know inherent risk) people walked in front near (about a foot) from where people were sitting. Sat in my car while I waited and positioned myself not to be in the way or around others when they brought her out. Wore my mask (have officially made over 100 of them now) and wiped down my cc with Clorox wipe when I got it back.

One of my favorite birds I fear has egg yolk peritonitis. Vet couldn’t fine anything wrong with her other than fever and being skinny. Gave her shot of long lasting antibiotics and we see if she improves. Outlook is guarded. Her appetite is much better tonight and her attitude is still full of herself despite feeling down.

I’m sorry. I lost one of my chickens to something similar earlier this year. I had a hard time getting in touch with a vet on the weekend to euthanize her, and she died at home as I was on the phone with the vet. My girls are all well-known by two vet clinics in two states. So I understand taking a duck to the vet.

At our vet right now, people are not supposed to leave their cars. You call and they come out and get the animal out of the vehicle. You pay over the phone. You discuss the appointment over the phone. And you keep your butt in the car while they bring your pet back. The only exception is euthanasia. They tried other methods and my vet told me people just would not listen. They had to lock the doors.

 

[otto]

Does WHO have any suggestions how a very large country can continue a total national quarantine while still keeping their food and medical supply lines up and running?

That is what worries me the most now. I do not believe we can continue this total lockdown and still assure people there will be food and medicines available in the coming months. JMO

WHO has long list of steps that 'need' to happen before a state reopens. But those steps seem unattainable. JMO

China had a regulation that everyone receives a salary while people are off work. Everyone remained employed and with normal income. That lasted a couple of months, perhaps that the government covered the costs. Mortgages and taxes were suspended - all sorts of economic measures were implemented in response to the virus in China. In Canada, people remain employed if the companies can remain afloat, and meantime everyone is guaranteed an income that pays normal costs for 4 months. If it lasts longer, which is possible, it will be a grim global economy, but it will rebound.

Lockdown is okay if it's properly managed.

WHO steps are not unattainable. They are realistic, solid, safe, and the shortest distance to the light at the end of the tunnel. They are advising to let the virus die out due to absence of hosts - like 1918/19. Some NATO countries are not listening.

 

[JaneEyre]

Today I had to mow the lawn, it's been raining a lot and the grass has grown pretty high. I kept changing directions and areas of mowing when people would walk by with their kids or a dog, I tried to get out early p.m. before most people take their walk later in the afternoon, according to patterns I have noticed from my window.

Tonight when I was watching the news, I heard that in Michigan people aren't allowed to go outside to mow their lawns. I don't know if that's true, but if so, that's going too far. Don't see how anyone can stop you from being on your own property.

EBM grammar change

From what I understand, landscaping was not considered essential. You can get your lawn mowed, but not have a bunch of fancy landscaping done. MOO

 

[otto]

Question about viral load. I read somewhere upthread that viral load means encountering a particularly deadly mutation of the virus.

I thought that viral load meant number of exposures to the virus. The first exposure, the load is low. The second time, the load is higher.

I wonder if many health care professionals including doctors are dying because viral load due to exposure is higher ... nothing to do with a mutated virus, just repeated exposure. Virus mutation at this time has not proven more deadly.

 

[Satchie]

At our vet right now, people not supposed to leave their cars. You call and they come out and get the animal out of the vehicle. You pay over the phone. You discuss the appointment over the phone. And you keep your butt in the car while they bring your pet back. The only exception is euthanasia. They tried other methods and my vet told me people just would not listen. They had to lock the doors.

Interesting and smart strategy.

I've heard many instances like that, of people adapting their normal ways so they can continue business.

Our volunteer fire department has divided up into squads, who alternate going off duty for 2 weeks, so they don't all get infected and one fresh squad is always available.

I think mostly humans are very clever and can figure these things out. It does take some educating of people who haven't thought through the risks (those are the less clever ones).

 

[firebird]

China had a regulation that everyone receives a salary while people are off work. Everyone remained employed and with normal income. That lasted a couple of months, perhaps that the government covered the costs. Mortgages and taxes were suspended - all sorts of economic measures were implemented in response to the virus in China. In Canada, people remain employed if the companies can remain afloat, and meantime everyone is guaranteed an income that pays normal costs for 4 months. If it lasts longer, which is possible, it will be a grim global economy, but it will rebound.

Lockdown is okay if it's properly managed.

WHO steps are not unattainable. They are realistic, solid, safe, and the shortest distance to the light at the end of the tunnel. They are advising to let the virus die out due to absence of hosts - like 1918/19. Some NATO countries are not listening.

They receive a "salary" or "wages" or both?

 

[LadyL]

Had to go to the vet today for a sick duck. (Yes I’ll spend money on a sick duck.). I am thankful at the moment they are essential. No one but employees were allowed inside the building, doctors were only allowed to interact with you over the phone, techs interacted with the people. Did my best to maintain social distancing, others not so much. First time I’ve been in public and have been able to watch people’s behavior instead of running in and out. Not a lot of sense regarding social distancing, instead of walking behind cars (I know inherent risk) people walked in front near (about a foot) from where people were sitting. Sat in my car while I waited and positioned myself not to be in the way or around others when they brought her out. Wore my mask (have officially made over 100 of them now) and wiped down my cc with Clorox wipe when I got it back.

One of my favorite birds I fear has egg yolk peritonitis. Vet couldn’t fine anything wrong with her other than fever and being skinny. Gave her shot of long lasting antibiotics and we see if she improves. Outlook is guarded. Her appetite is much better tonight and her attitude is still full of herself despite feeling down.

our vet is not interacting except on phone too
we pull into parking spot, place carrier on a table outside, tech comes out and gets carrier
we pay over the phone and then tech brings carrier out to table again
every client stays in car except to place/retrieve pet from table so no interaction with other people at all
I LOVE that you're taking such good care of your duck!

 

[LadyL]

Our next door neighbors specifically bought a freezer for the second wave. We thought it was excessive. Maybe not.

we're looking for one right now

 

[Tbone144]

I’m sorry. I lost one of my chickens to something similar earlier this year. I had a hard time getting in touch with a vet on the weekend to euthanize her, and she died at home as I was on the phone with the vet. My girls are all well-known by two vet clinics in two states. So I understand taking a duck to the vet.

At our vet right now, people are not supposed to leave their cars. You call and they come out and get the animal out of the vehicle. You pay over the phone. You discuss the appointment over the phone. And you keep your butt in the car while they bring your pet back. The only exception is euthanasia. They tried other methods and my vet told me people just would not listen. They had to lock the doors.

So hard to find vets normally that will see barn yard birds. I could have tried one of the specialty centers but I wanted to try the town vet. I basically had to explain what I think it was (my own diagnostic work). I do my best to be informed to help them. The vet admitted they weren’t bird specialists and I told them I understand. Horses, cattle, goats, sheep, dogs, cats, are no problem but for some reason barn yard birds are still left by the wayside. If I win the lottery I’ll go to vet school and learn equine (childhood dream) and other large animal but also poultry. Everyone told me how hard it was to get into vet school so I chickened out and became a chemist instead. Hindsight being 20/20, I think I could have done it if I had tried. Instead I got a degree in polymers and coatings and chemistry.

 

[zecats]

Question about viral load. I read somewhere upthread that viral load means encountering a particularly deadly mutation of the virus.

I thought that viral load meant number of exposures to the virus. The first exposure, the load is low. The second time, the load is higher.

I wonder if many health care professionals including doctors are dying because viral load due to exposure is higher ... nothing to do with a mutated virus, just repeated exposure. Virus mutation at this time has not proven more deadly.

What we were told when DH went to the ER the second time due to breathing issues was more about increased exposure to the virus. I really believed he would end up being admitted...However, he was ok to go home (after more bloodwork and another chest scan)- reason being that he would be better off at home so as not to increase his viral load by being around patients who were sicker than he was at the time.

 

[24Roses]

Iowa Hospitals Weigh in on Decision to Reopen Elective Surgeries IMO-it sounds like the hospitals in Iowa are going to be very careful before they start doing the elective surgeries again and just because they are being allowed to, it doesn't sound like they may be doing it right away.

 

[Seattle1]

Remdesivir already failed in clinical trials, too. It's not just hydroxychloroquine. The tests have high error rates, the initial studies to find hidden cases were not properly randomized. I think a couple of "promising vaccines" have fallen by wayside.

I am tired of the hype and can't follow SARS-COV 2 blow by blow.

I'm not sure where you've confirmed that Remdesivir already failed in clinical trials.

My understanding is that they do not have solid data to indicate it can improve clinical outcomes -- which does not mean failure. It's a randomized, placebo-controlled trial is that's the gold standard for determining if an experimental treatment can benefit patients and this did not happen given the urgency of the pandemic.

I'm also aware that there was research testing conducted by NIH that was set up to follow one of the human clinical trials, and this provided favorable results as there was a decrease of the virus in the lungs on the subjects receiving Remdesivir. Understanding, of course, none of the results have been peer-reviewed.

NIH Clinical Trial of Remdesivir to Treat COVID-19 Begins | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

 

[WideOpen]

O/T-JMO
@Kensie
I always enjoy your warm personal posts. Glad you are ok and strong as can be for now. I'm also glad your step daughter is fine, what a scare for your family. I have been here in this thread from early on (rarely post) and my daughter and grand baby in Las Vegas had the virus early on but weren't tested. They pulled through without complications. I was there for his birth and spent several months, what a unique city that is! I am back at home on the southern east coast now, in SC. I am personally not afraid of the virus. I was able to prep from the beginning. I'm in my 50s and have my mother in her late 70s temporarily living with me and isolating (boy is this arrangement exhausting-lol). Most of all I am worrying about young peoples lives and their endurance for future goals. I have a junior in college and I have a daughter starting her Physician Assistant program in May. She is anxious and uneasy about her classes due to the online nature. I have 2 granddaughters in their first year of band, losing precious music instructions and the friendships formed from middle school. All of our lives have been thrown into the unknown. I try to show a strong & steady front for the kids.
This thread and many of the posters provide education and a community of support.
Take care Kensie! virtual hugs
JMO

 

[The Night Watchman]

The amount of virus you are exposed to apparently affects your outcome. If you are going to get infected, best to be infected by the minimal amount that it takes to get infected.

Would there possibly a "safe" exposure level for young and not at risk people to be intentionally exposed and quarantined, in the path to herd immunity? I would doubt the safety and ethics of that approach.

On the basis of previous work on SARS and MERS coronaviruses, we know that exposure to higher doses are associated with a worse outcome and this may be likely in the case of Covid-19 as well. This means that health care workers that care for Covid-19 patients are at a particularly high risk as they are more likely to be exposed to a higher number of viral particles, particularly when there is a lack of personal protective equipment (PPE).

In general with respiratory viruses, the outcome of infection – whether you get severely ill or only get a mild cold – can sometimes be determined by how much virus actually got into your body and started the infection off. It’s all about the size of the armies on each side of the battle, a very large virus army is difficult for our immune systems army to fight off.

So standing further away from someone when they breathe or cough out virus likely means fewer virus particles reach you and then you get infected with a lower dose and get less ill. Doctors who have to get very close to patients to take samples from them or to intubate them are at higher risk so need to wear masks.

expert reaction to questions about COVID-19 and viral load | Science Media Centre

 

[Seattle1]

you want to send criminals on vacation? even with the ship just sitting there, they will feel like they're on vacation IMO

I believe you misinterpreted my post, and sorry it was not clear.

By "think cruise ship," I was comparing confinement (i.e., a prison) with what happens on a cruise ship when a virus is present. I was NOT advocating sending criminals on a cruise vacation but responding to why low-level offenders are being released during the pandemic.

Released inmates contracting COVID-19 outside of prison also pose less liability to the States.

 

[musicaljoke]

They receive a "salary" or "wages" or both?

I'm not sure if anyone else answered your question already, but in case they didn't, Canadian employers who lost 30% or more of their income from the same period last year, can apply for 75% of their employee wages, provided they continue to pay their employees their full wages. Employers also get 10% reduction on their employer remittance. It makes it economically possible to continue to keep their employees on the payroll.

There are also rent reductions, and other supports for businesses.

Employees who are laid off can apply for emergency relief, which is also fairly generous. There's also support for child care, and some other financial supports for families. And of course, all Canadians continue to have access to publically funded health care.

A program came out for students yesterday, but I haven't looked into it yet.