Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #47

[Nikynoo]

What makes you think that it is unlikely the ponchos were worn to commit the murder?

Well, ponchos are usually mid length and if this is the case here, then they wouldn't provide much protection as compared to overalls. Full length ponchos would be too unwieldy. They may have just been in garage along with the pillows and other camping supplies. IMO, i don't see the ponchos coming from Farmington. No that it matters.

 

[Dacaesar]

I agree.
IMO
I also think KM and especially MT know of the disposal location(s) and method. Honestly it could be a large bargaing chip for MT. She should cut a deal, lesser prison time.

I for one, am always disappointed when LE cuts deals with perpetrators in order to locate bodies or remnants thereof. I understand and appreciate that family members who wish for "closure" or a final resting place to visit may be inclined to support this tactic. IMO

 

[Dacaesar]

Sorry - double post

 

[Woodswarrior]

I'm with you on trying to figure out where she is.
I think a HUGE clue in the disposal is:
Why did FD and MT unclothe, untape, un ziptie, and unwrap black plastic garbage bags?
If buried or carted off it would have been easier to leave the packaged body intact, fully wrapped and taped.
Also someone went to a lot of trouble to remove clothes off a bloody body of someone's wife.
Also the "tangled mess of black tape" was included in the trash dump on Albany.
As were the two bags taped together.
So again, why was time spent in removing bags and tape and clothes?
To me that implies doing something with the body that those things would impede.
Like chemical decomposition or burning by fire. Or dismembering then sending parts through a wood chipper.
If they were just burying her in a dug grave, the
packaging would have just been left on for convenience, IMO.
I still suspect LE has no idea what happened to her body. Will we ever learn this, if true?
Does this info have to be provided in a trial for MT and/or KM?

I would think the removal of zip tie, bags tape and her clothes before burial(if he buried jd) would be so if his/their Dna and finger prints where on those items witch they where.would not be found with the body if the body was every found.For the perpetrators,seperating evidence is always a good idea! Moo

 

[enelram]

I agree.
IMO
I also think KM and especially MT know of the disposal location(s) and method. Honestly it could be a large bargaing chip for MT. She should cut a deal, lesser prison time.
We are all interested in where JD is to settle the case.
I don't care about MT, I care about finding JD and putting it to rest so we can stop guessing.
The poor family and friends.
I am driven crazy by this and I never knew JD.
There has got to be a way to find out what happened to her?
There are so many smart people out there someone has to be able to figure this out.
Let's face it there are only so many ways and places it could have happened, granted lots of possibilities but not impossible.....
Hoping one of us WS does the job.

I don't believe we, WSers, have enough info to connect the dots on JFD disposal.
If we had access to all the info LE has, the full
tracking on vehicles and phones and forensics found at MS, maybe we could contribute.
If I recall, when 80MS was being searched there had been several spring rainfalls which
would have washed away any outside tracings
of blood in the yard, etc. Same with a temporary grave. IMO there was a long time lapse from her death in AM on 5/24 and when
80 MS was searched. The news hasn't made much of this delay but I believe it played a huge part in not finding or even tracking where the body went.
Not sure why LE spent so much time and expense searching MIRA unless they were positive that's where the body went. Were they
positive or was this an effort to make up for lost time and effort on the weekend of 5/24-5/25?
Sure wish we could see the discovery LE has.

 

[afitzy]

I appreciate your post (and your obvious frustration), but what IMO posters are doing is testing the evidence objectively. IMO WS does a good job of this.

Sorry but have to respectfully disagree with this @Nikynoo. 47 threads exist that IMO work through a mountain of evidence (a good portion of which didn't come from LE, Atty Colangelo or CSP). Sadly there are many more questions that we don't have answers to vs. those that we do have answers to based on the limited information that has been shared by LE. Unlike other cases where there has been ongoing dialog from LE we have had NONE of this from CSP or Atty Colangelo so this community has pulled together and pieced things together the best that we can and its been like we have largely been in the dark. Unlike other missing cases where family and friends share a lot of information WE HAVE HAD NOTHING from this typical source either. We were also derailed by Press coverage that was tainted by Atty. P. repeating the 'alibi scripts' for months.

I would also like to say specifically that there is ZERO in the evidence that I can see that IMO leads me to believe that MT played no role in the planning and execution of this horrific murder of JFD. YET, we see people introducing this idea over and over again, IMO in a very organised fashion which leads me to be quite suspicious of their motives in all of this. I would just ask that these people read MT AW1-3 prior to posting the repeated suggestions that MT 'didn't know' or 'she couldn't have done it' or 'it was impossible that she was there' kind of comments.

Yes, this is frustrating to @HopeForTheBest and others who have been here and have read the source documents as these kinds of comments have ZERO connection to the facts as presented by LE about MT. If people want to engage in questioning LE facts or present theories about conspiracy etc. then my suggestion would be to simply head over to Facebook where there are 1,000s of like minded conspiracy theorists to provide entertainment. We have tried very hard to find quality information, source documents and stay on track with regard to facts presented by LE in the AWs and SW and stay away from conspiracy theories under the guise of 'testing the evidence objectively IMO.

What has been happening recently is that many folks that haven't taken the time to read the source documents in the case (Yes, 3 AWs for Fd and MT EACH and 1 for KM and the portion of SWs released by LE) continue to circle back to conversations that have gone on for threads and threads on particular issues and where general consensus exists. Many here believe this behaviour to be organised and trollish in its execution.

Many people (myself included) have been here from the beginning on this case and have invested a large amount of time to find and read source documents. So, to see people questioning whether something was stated in an AW for example without taking the time to go back and look it up simply seems unproductive and intentionally diversionary or even questioning whether LE was correct in the statement made in an AW. When I see one of these questions many times I will take the time to answer the question if I know the answer as that is what typically happens on WS, we help each other out. BUT, when these questions keep coming and coming in a way that leads me, and others, to believe the questions are trollish then I will make the personal decision to cease answering such questions that IMO are clearly documented in the AWs and SW dump that have been posted here and exist in the Media thread for anyone that is interested in reading them.

I hope you take this post in the spirit that it is intended as we would like to keep moving using the limited information that we have and we know that the information we have is highly imperfect and incomplete. There are pieces of the crime that we continue to explore again and again (say the 40 min gap on Lapham or timeline at 80MS or role of KM or Fd and/or accomplice at Welles or the cell phones in the JFd Suburban) because there is imperfect information and there remain many different theories as to what happened and we still don't have consensus on what happened at Lapham for example. Progress is slow and frustrating at times and sometimes we do have to go backwards, but we are making slow progress here I think.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I’ll try:

My theory is that blood that was on darker surfaces such as the side of the car and the garbage cans was not obvious to persons not looking for it and apparently not cleaned up by the murderer(s). Blood other places was cleaned up by the murderer(s). But they did not do a good job from a LE detective point of view.

When LA arrived, she assumed she had to get her charges to the city on a certain schedule. She also was with 4 children who had all kinds of side issues and conversations about ketchup, lacrosse, you-tube, whose turn it is to do what when, fairness, and whatever else kids talk about.

Trying to get kids with you, focused on keeping to a schedule, one thing you do not do is spend too much time letting the topic of convo derail progress. “Yes, that’s weird, Mom forgot her purse... who can be in charge of bringing it to my car?”

When LA arrived, it was apparent something was weird about the day and evening before, but she was likely focused on keeping herself and the children on schedule. Jennifer was not yet missing. The weirdness was going to be a story, but a story for a time when she was not trying to shuffle 4 kids.

When LE arrived, Jennifer was missing, and LA, among others, was now worried. They reported Fotis’ past abuse and that he had a gun. LE was looking for blood. They saw some with their eyes, and by rumors, the garage “lit up” under black light which glows when it hits bodily fluids (among other things).

LA when in the middle of picking up the kids, and LE, when investigating a missing Jennifer who was quite possibly hurt by an armed abusive ex, entered the garage with entirely different mind sets.

Does that make sense?

I have another point. It does seem like LA handled the situation by using her car. (I don’t know, but it seems possible since team Fotis was trying to intimidate her about that.) If so, team Fotis got lucky. Maybe the blood on the RR would have been seen earlier, and LE would have been in Farmington in time for the drive back and forth party. 80MS <=> 4JX.

(I wonder if the RR keys were available? If they were where they belong, but LA used her car because she didn’t use the RR without permission or plans, that is not weird. If she would have used it but couldn’t find the keys, that is very weird.)

Team Fotis should be sending LA thank you cards for not using the RR. Whatever was happening at the secondary crime scene could have been interrupted, and there may never have been a dumpster date night.

Replying to myself because it’s too late to edit to add:

At lunch time it was sunny, and even if lights on, the garage would appear dark. In the evening, the garage was the light area.

The blood on the RR was mentioned on the driver side especially. On the floor, there apparently was a lot of blood on the floor near front-driver side corner of the car. These areas would be shadows at that hour. The sun can be seen traveling in the neighbor’s security images of JD’s Suburban; the shadow of a tree moves from her arrival (last known image alive) and departure (dying or dead). The shadows show the clarity of the weather and brightness of the sun.

That when ones eyes are adjusted to the sun, a garage can look very dark except where the sun is directly shining. That goes doubly if one just arrived wearing sun glasses.

I just noticed that a lot of the assault and bleeding appears to have happened between the RR (driver side) and Suburban (passenger side.)

I wonder if Fotis and/or co-conspirator entered and waited in the RR while Jennifer was out with the Suburban? And if a RR key was not where it was expected to be, perhaps he/they brought it into the car? It is an excellent hiding place; it’s designed to reduce noise transfer, while garages in general are echoing and loud.

To a (large) extent, it doesn’t matter. The blood is where the blood is. But I can’t help playing out the lying in wait and initial contact/struggle scenarios.

 

[afitzy]

So, not so obvious then. Not a messy crime scene. Thanks.

If what you mean by 'not a messy crime scene' is obviously visible blood dripping from all surfaces in the 69/71 Welles garage then yes, someone like LA who was used to walking through the garage would not have seen blood dripping from all surfaces when she returned to the house to have lunch with the 4 children.

BUT, the crime scene before it was cleaned was IMO quite messy and the blood loss IMO was extensive enough for Dr Gill to make the statement that he did about a violent attack happening in the garage at 69/71 Welles. There was reference to a partial blood footprint and blood pooling that was consistent with a violent attack.

So, at some point the CRIME SCENE WAS MESSY AND QUITE BLOODY. It is believed that at least 10 rolls of paper towels, possibly JFd clothes or other rags or other materials were used to clean up the blood. It is also believed that blood pooling will be in evidence following seepage into the concrete floor. Once the crime lab showed up and sprayed the garage with luminol or other chemicals then the extent of the spatter and splatter became evident and while we don't yet have pictures of this testing happening, it is reasonable to believe that it occurred and will no doubt play out prominently at trial.

Fd and possibly and accomplice did the best they could to clean up the 69/71 Welles Garage but based on the forensic evidence they didn't erase their movements by any stretch of the imagination as it was clear that blood evidence (of which we only have a portion) is extensive IMO:



MOO

 

[afitzy]

No, I don't. To me, this all links back to the ME opinion in the AW.

On what basis @Nikynoo can you reasonably dispute the findings of the ME here?

Very curious what you might be seeing that the ME (who had much more information that we have here) drew what I believe to be a conservative opinion.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

I don't believe we, WSers, have enough info to connect the dots on JFD disposal.
If we had access to all the info LE has, the full
tracking on vehicles and phones and forensics found at MS, maybe we could contribute.
If I recall, when 80MS was being searched there had been several spring rainfalls which
would have washed away any outside tracings
of blood in the yard, etc. Same with a temporary grave. IMO there was a long time lapse from her death in AM on 5/24 and when
80 MS was searched. The news hasn't made much of this delay but I believe it played a huge part in not finding or even tracking where the body went.
Not sure why LE spent so much time and expense searching MIRA unless they were positive that's where the body went. Were they
positive or was this an effort to make up for lost time and effort on the weekend of 5/24-5/25?
Sure wish we could see the discovery LE has.

@enelram, I agree with you that the early delays in what appears to be getting the search warrants most likely doomed efforts early on to locate the body and things only got harder as time passed IMO.

I am not sure that we will know about the MIRA evidence until trial as I personally can't reconcile the early comment of 'it was worth it (referring to the search)' to the more recent Atty Colangelo statement on Chaz and AJ about 'nothing being found'.

My guess is that LE has a full timeline for Fd and MT and continue to put together their case against KM. The KM AW was clearly a work in progress and Atty Colangelo has said that the investigation is ongoing. We did learn that KM was at 80MS on the evening before the murder. We don't know if he was at the 4Jx party or whether he stayed overnight at either 80MS or 4JX and we don't know if he was seen in New Canaan either on the murder date or before. For that matter we don't have confirmation of a MT timeline either and we don't know where MT daughter and possibly Mama A were on 5/23, 5/24 and 5/25.

We haven't spent much time on the KM connection, in part due to the lack of information but LE has been hard at work and has no doubt pulled apart the life of KM. By virtue of watching KM in action assisting Fd in the Civil case my suspicion is that the folks KM chooses to surround himself with in his personal and professional lives would not necessarily be a roster of upstanding citizens. Nope, my guess is that if the KM client roster were pulled apart and analysed that we would see a good portion of the underbelly of criminal elements in/around the South Windsor/Farmington/Hartford area. Just a hunch based on what we have seen from KM in the past. Who exactly were the KM known associates? LE knows and IMO LE will be pushing them hard. My long suspicion was that KM offered Fd connection to criminal elements that could have easily made a body disappear. I do wonder if KM might sacrifice such individuals in order to save himself a lifetime in prison? IDK.

MOO

 

[pseudo_hum]

IMO, it was "worth" the effort even though, maybe no evidence was recovered. JD was worth the effort. IMO

 

[bubby girl]

It was a beautiful warm sunny day!

Here is the link @MollyDDD:
Weather in May 2019 in Town of New Canaan, Connecticut, USA

View attachment 233498

Certainly matches the pictures from the AW’s!!

 

[Ruminations]

No, I don't. To me, this all links back to the ME opinion in the AW.

So, your theory is that Jennifer is not dead being that that it appears the crime scene was not messy enough to make LA feel alarm; she sensed only weirdness?

You are NOT postulating that Jennifer was killed after LA left, per your explicit answer to an explicit question, but rather you are hinting that the ME is wrong?

Why the hint, and not say it outright? I can’t imagine a lot of people would agree, but even those of us who do not believe she is alive know that team Fotis’ defense is going to be to bring in a parade of their own paid experts. It’s not like it is a defense theory we are not anticipating. For that matter, it’s not like it’s a defense theory that hasn’t been used.

Fotis himself eventually went to that theory of defense. Initially, when most people were hoping she lost her phone and was stuck under something heavy, Fotis already told Meehan the “news” she disappeared, and was arranging to be there for the kids who “needed him now.” It was as if he already knew she wasn’t coming back, and that the kids needed to move on with him more than they needed him to tell LE her state of mind on their visit, etc. He didn’t even ask if he could help check hospitals, etc.

Eventually, most assumed she had been killed by him, and the general population had got to where he was less the 24 hours after her death, assuming her disappearance was a concrete thing that had happened in the past, not a current mystery. The mystery was the location of her body. (Although MT has a theory for where it was at some point.)

But Fotis and his murder-fantasizing attorney were floating absurd theories of her being alive. The weirdest was Fotis wishing dead Jennifer happy holidays even when Jennifer was dead, and it wasn’t the holidays.

So float that defense theory if you want. I call BS because even Fotis knew right from the start, she wasn’t coming back.

 

[Mimi in London]

IMO, it was "worth" the effort even though, maybe no evidence was recovered. JD was worth the effort. IMO

I thought that, too. Worth the unimaginable effort, even if it were only to rule out MIRA.

eta correction to typos

 

[kimch33kim]

There is no way the ponchos are from Welles Lane garage. the nanny who seems to be very observant noticed all the things missing from JD garage like the 2 camping pillows , old towel , supply bucket . if the ponchos were missing she would notice too. and if there were ponchos most would be kid sized not two adult sized ponchos

 

[kimch33kim]

I may have missed this in prior threads but did we ever discuss how FD used the pound ridge place as a NC office and also MM house in providence as a Rhode Island office?

 

[Nikynoo]

So, your theory is that Jennifer is not dead being that that it appears the crime scene was not messy enough to make LA feel alarm; she sensed only weirdness?

You are NOT postulating that Jennifer was killed after LA left, per your explicit answer to an explicit question, but rather you are hinting that the ME is wrong?

Why the hint, and not say it outright? I can’t imagine a lot of people would agree, but even those of us who do not believe she is alive know that team Fotis’ defense is going to be to bring in a parade of their own paid experts. It’s not like it is a defense theory we are not anticipating. For that matter, it’s not like it’s a defense theory that hasn’t been used.

Fotis himself eventually went to that theory of defense. Initially, when most people were hoping she lost her phone and was stuck under something heavy, Fotis already told Meehan the “news” she disappeared, and was arranging to be there for the kids who “needed him now.” It was as if he already knew she wasn’t coming back, and that the kids needed to move on with him more than they needed him to tell LE her state of mind on their visit, etc. He didn’t even ask if he could help check hospitals, etc.

Eventually, most assumed she had been killed by him, and the general population had got to where he was less the 24 hours after her death, assuming her disappearance was a concrete thing that had happened in the past, not a current mystery. The mystery was the location of her body. (Although MT has a theory for where it was at some point.)

But Fotis and his murder-fantasizing attorney were floating absurd theories of her being alive. The weirdest was Fotis wishing dead Jennifer happy holidays even when Jennifer was dead, and it wasn’t the holidays.

So float that defense theory if you want. I call BS because even Fotis knew right from the start, she wasn’t coming back.

Respectfully, that is not my theory at all. I have previously posted that the MEs opinion is just that, albeit an expert one. But it is something that needs to be proved, does it not? I know its not how many posters approach the evidence, but I like to turn it over and test it. I'm sorry if my approach doesn't suit you or others.

 

[enelram]

I'm still hung up on the phone ping on Birch St., Bristol.
I have a couple new thoughts on this and it involves Michelle Troconis's involvement.

Who's old stomping grounds is right around
Middle St., Birch St., Pine St, ESPM headquarters? That's right, Michelle Troconis.
She would most likely have thought of using or being in this area rather than FD because of her familiarity of this neighborhood.
And again, having lived nearby many years ago, this area is not a place that locals go to
or near UNLESS they go there was a specific purpose. It's an old, rundown semi-industrial
mixed use neighborhood of little old houses,
small factories, public and private dumps and landfills which accept normal waste and toxic materials. Many run down rentals and a few
apartment sites there also. Not what you'd call a good neighborhood.
So I believe this errand into Birch/Middle St. was run by Michelle as an errand for FD.
Because I'm convinced she participated in some of the post mortem handling of the body
due to her dna being on several bags, and because I suspect the body was likely desecrated after death for both disposal and possibly due to joint hatred by both FD and Michelle Troconis. It's very possible, IMO, that Michelle Troconis may have been delivering parts of the body, maybe the severed head and hands, re-wrapped after unwrapping and being
dismembered at 80 MS or DC, and then repackaged in a container like a cooler, driven
to the Middle St. area and disposed of. Either
in a lake or swamp, or a pre-dug grave, or left
as toxic waste at one of the dumps/landfills there.
I believe that we'll eventually read that the phone pings around Birch St. , Bristol was FD's
female crime assistant, Michelle Troconis.
Come on Kent, we need you to come clean.
You know all about this errand, tell LE all you know.

 

[MollyDDD]

I don't believe we, WSers, have enough info to connect the dots on JFD disposal.
If we had access to all the info LE has, the full
tracking on vehicles and phones and forensics found at MS, maybe we could contribute.
If I recall, when 80MS was being searched there had been several spring rainfalls which
would have washed away any outside tracings
of blood in the yard, etc. Same with a temporary grave. IMO there was a long time lapse from her death in AM on 5/24 and when
80 MS was searched. The news hasn't made much of this delay but I believe it played a huge part in not finding or even tracking where the body went.
Not sure why LE spent so much time and expense searching MIRA unless they were positive that's where the body went. Were they
positive or was this an effort to make up for lost time and effort on the weekend of 5/24-5/25?
Sure wish we could see the discovery LE has.

All in due time.

 

[Nikynoo]

There is no way the ponchos are from Welles Lane garage. the nanny who seems to be very observant noticed all the things missing from JD garage like the 2 camping pillows , old towel , supply bucket . if the ponchos were missing she would notice too. and if there were ponchos most would be kid sized not two adult sized ponchos

how do you know the size of the ponchos?