GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

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Thanks Moll. Yeah the content is extrem.

I can see that there has been more of the same since I left and until the lunch-break, so I dont think there is any need to translate that.
Its all about what was found on computers, harddisks and PM's iPhone, such as links, search-words, pics and movies. The police has made a spreadsheet with all that info too, and have the time, the username and passwords for every thing they found.
It is filled with creepy stuff of all sorts.

The defense-lawyer keeps breaking in and say that they have to notice that it is all done within a very short period of time, but the prosecutor says that they cant always see when.
Why the defense think its good that its done within a short period of time is really not clear to me. It just shows what was on his mind in the days up to KW's death IMO

Another strange thing from the defense is that the people who has done all the findings is the center for cyper-crime, that the defense wants to call in as witnesses, for the defense. What is it the lawyer think they can contribute to PM's defense? Is it just to - again - let PM babble around it all with all sorts of unbelievable stories to try to confuse the judges?

We will see whats up next after the lunch-break at 13:15
.
 
Thanks, L_I.

The most telling evidence, sadly:

@julieastridthom1h

Madsen's last searches on the night between Aug 9 and 10 were made around midnight on the site YNC(.com) for 'beheading girl agony' and 'young woman in agony while being slowly beheaded with knife, the court learns @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen

No wonder the defence is desperate.
 
Very depressing.

Thanks all, for your reporting.

How much more can you take of this, the man is very, very sick in his head!

His LAWYER will need therapy, Moll !!
 
So PM's ex-wife has provided a
sick note and not turned up. Can a wife be compelled to testify against her husband in Denmark? She may have decided not to go on the stand if they cannot make her.

I think they have enough, especially with today's news of what is on his laptop. This is different from what they found on an old hard drive on a shelf in a worktop that others may have accessed. A laptop is personal and it seems the material was recently accessed.

The info from the phone is interesting-considering they did not find his actual phone.

Another witness mentions Barcelona and the millionaire. I wonder if they have tried to trace him?
 
The prosecutor seems to continue with all the disgusting stuff that the police has found.
I am not going to translate that. I had enough for now.

We dont need anymore to characterize him, IMO.
 
Shiressleuth said:
So PM's ex-wife has provided a
sick note and not turned up. Can a wife be compelled to testify against her husband in Denmark? She may have decided not to go on the stand if they cannot make her.

I think they have enough, especially with today's news of what is on his laptop. This is different from what they found on an old hard drive on a shelf in a worktop that others may have accessed. A laptop is personal and it seems the material was recently accessed.

The info from the phone is interesting-considering they did not find his actual phone.

Another witness mentions Barcelona and the millionaire. I wonder if they have tried to trace him?
Click to expand...

A spouse has the right not to testify against husband/wife, but since they are divorced now, she has to - UNLESS she can document that she is too ill to do it.
And that is apparently what she is doing.
I don´t know what she is going through, but it is tough on her, I can imagine.
I hope her life isn´t ruined for good.
 
SATA said:
Very depressing.

Thanks all, for your reporting.

How much more can you take of this, the man is very, very sick in his head!

His LAWYER will need therapy, Moll !!
Click to expand...

I thought the same - a worse task would be hard to imagine, having to deal with all this horror and defend the perpetrator.
 
Shiressleuth said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CaliforniaRobin/status/981493901692428290?p=v

This is one of the last ones he viewed early (00.35) on 10 Aug. He viewed/opened it 5 times.

I don't understand what the defence would need to ask the police cyber expert. Maybe " Are you sure this was PM's laptop?". I do think they need to call that witness just to confirm and question him/her.
Click to expand...

Ugh.
I see what you mean, as the defence will try anything to claim he isn't having a fair hearing despite everything. But perhaps the judge thinks there have to be limits to all this going through the motions and it's just out of order and would make no difference.
 
[FONT=&amp]I guess these are the types of questions the defence are wanting to ask the cyber expert. It seems pretty pointless. They must be hoping for a miracle.

Robin Elizabeth Herr‏ @CaliforniaRobin 15m15 minutes ago
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The prosecutor is reading the letter & the police written answer. When he reads that many other things were also searched, the prosecutors spontaneously adds, "for example, cats."

Defense writing questions: The 90 film sequences - could they have been automatically saved? Written answer from police: On the external hard drive the user had to consciously do it. It was not automatic.

The defence wants to question the National Cyber Crime Center @Rigspoliti_NC3 about methodology, for example 1. Did the police give them a list of what to look for? 2. How did they decide whether it is relevant.
[/FONT]
 
Betina Hald Engmark is probably aiming at showing that PM had a lot of searches of harmless things as well. To put into perspective the 90 searches of torture and murders of women.

But how can it? 1 would be extreme already.

His searches are: cats, rockets, submarines, engineering and TORTURE of women.

As far as I understand it, the police investigators have not numbered all his searches for other things than torture.
Of course they can, but it will cost money.
We´ll see what the judge says.

I think they have enough to convict him, no need to spend money and manpower on this silliness in my opinion.
 
SATA said:
Betina Hald Engmark is probably aiming at showing that PM had a lot of searches of harmless things as well. To put into perspective the 90 searches of torture and murders of women.

But how can it? 1 would be extreme already.

His searches are: cats, rockets, submarines, engineering and TORTURE of women.

As far as I understand it, the police investigators have not numbered all his searches for other things than torture.
Of course they can, but it will cost money.
We´ll see what the judge says.

I think they have enough to convict him, no need to spend money and manpower on this silliness in my opinion.
Click to expand...

It would be cheaper to ask PM what percentage of his searches were for torture/beheading/stabbings/etc versus rockets/cats/subs/normal stuff. It would be interesting to hear his answers about these things. Is he being questioned again?

Also, what PM thinks was harmless is the point right? He didn't seem to think this stuff was abnormal when he was asked before. I'll see if I can find it.
 
Reminder of PM's talent for detailed tales explaining his behaviour, from the prosecution. (Is this like the summing up in an English court, then? They'd never allow the defence to start asking for more witnesses in that!)
Read from the bottom up.


@julieastridthom14m

Day 9 in the #SubmarineTrial is over. Tomorrow, the prosecutor will finish presenting evidence to the court when day 10 out of 12 begins in Copenhagen. For a recap of today, visit the @SkyNews liveblog here: news.sky.com/story/live-kim… #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom20m

"There was nothing to hide," the prosecutor reads from Madsen's first statement to the police from his preliminary hearing. Madsen later gave a new explanation, after Kim Wall's head was found without injuries to the skull @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom28m

Madsen's first statement was very detailed, just like he gave the court a detailed new explanation about Kim Wall dying from being trapped inside the submarine, breathing exhaust gases @SkyNews#SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom32m

In #PeterMadsen's first statement from the preliminary questioning, he told police #KimWall died by an accident as she was hit in the head by a hatch cover, he afterwards dropped her whole body in the sea, didn't look if she sank, the prosecutor reads @SkyNews#SubmarineTrial


@julieastridthom38m

The prosecutor is reading Madsen's initial, very detailed statement from the preliminary questioning about him dropping the hatch on Kim Wall's head by accident @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen
 
Shiressleuth said:
It would be cheaper to ask PM what percentage of his searches were for torture/beheading/stabbings/etc versus rockets/cats/subs/normal stuff. It would be interesting to hear his answers about these things. Is he being questioned again?

Also, what PM thinks was harmless is the point right? He didn't seem to think this stuff was abnormal when he was asked before. I'll see if I can find it.
Click to expand...

Cheaper, but not a lot of use, since he'd lie. I agree with SATA that it's also pointless to find this out from the police investigators. If the police find searches indicating, say, a terrorist plot, but there are also knitting patterns, they don't reckon the knitting patterns cancel out the terrorist plot.
I don't think he gets another go. The judge can't keep allowing him to come back!
 
We all know he lies (and lies and lies and lies some more), so this all seems like such a waste of time!

One thing leaves me curious, and that is what his wife has to say.
Other than that, this case is proven, as far as I am concerned, PM is just wiggling in the (fish)net, as the saying goes in Denmark.
 
SATA said:
According to Peter Madsen, the woman is a part of the laboratory since 2015.
"We are close and she is very special. I love her, says Peter Madsen.
The lawyer asks if the woman has used some of the things that were in the laboratory. Including cameras and computers in the hangar.
"She has, among other things, had a hard drive for loans," says Peter Madsen.

- If we just hold on to it. Cameras and Hard Drives - Did she tell her what she used it to? "Asks the lawyer.
"I do not know, but I think she used it for videos from the laboratory," says Peter Madsen.
- What about the computers?
- She had her own computer, and so I had one that I used for my lectures. But it was also used by others, says Peter Madsen.

Peter Madsen now tells that his wife has also had access to his computer and camera.
- What about the interns? "Asks the lawyer.
- They have had their own, but they have also had access to mine to install things and such.
- Why is that. Can not you? ", Asks the lawyer.
- Young people today they are native Internet people. They are in control of it and can do something we can not, says Peter Madsen.




​






​
Click to expand...

SATA said:
- There is some of this video material found that also has with the Islamic state. Is it one of the interns you've talked about? Did you talk about dark net and so? "Asks the lawyer.
- The videos are something found on news media.
- But do you have access to the dark network, asks the lawyer.
"No, not at all," says Peter Madsen.

Peter Madsen now tells about his interns and about the women and men who come to the hangar on the Refshale island.
He speaks warmly about them. "They are amazing," he says.

He is now being asked for one of the women who have exchanged rape fantasies with Peter Madsen via SMS.
The young woman meets Peter Madsen for a techno party. He shows her, among other things, the submarine Nautilus one day where he has set candles all over the submarine. They later develop an erotic relationship.
"I take her to a lecture in Holland," says Peter Madsen.




​
Click to expand...

Logical_Inference said:
Strange interests.

The prosecutor try to proof that if he saved Kims Wall's stuff, tights, hairs, notes, it was because he had plans to say he had put her off -
PM: I had not planned to do anything so cruel at Nautilus, he says.
Have you had Bent Isager's book 'Man chasing a beast and catching a human' or Ove Dahl's book 'New cases' at your workshop?' Asks the prosecutor.
PM: Yes.
Have you been interested in Amagermanden?
PM: Not especially. I know about the story. I know more about history now than I did before August 10th. But I have not found Amagermanden particularly interesting. I have been interested in the technical details. I am most interested in Bent Isager's psychological way.

PM says he is wondering how they can get the idea that he has plans to plant evidence. "I know that everything I do online can be traced," he says
He denies that he has been interested in the part of the Amagermand case of planting false DNA evidence
He rejects the prosecutor's question that he receives footage of Kim Wall while on board the submarine.

PM: I had taken the camera with me because I figured that something could be filmed. He says, however, that he found out that there was no card in the camera. He becomes annoyed that the prosecutor asks if he has hidden the card.
- When did you throw the phones in the water?
PM: - During the night. Kim Wall's phone seems to be in one of the bags, but I do not really know

Have you made footage after you've had sex?
Yes, I have, he answers. "It's not a lot that I've done that," he says.

Records have been found where he has had a gopro camera on his head during recordings.
The recordings were found on a hard disk, which the police found. He says that it has been purchased to Rumlaboratoriet. - The hard drive has a woman been lending. It did not have a password and everyone could take it. It has been on a shelf and in a computer bag. Everybody have had the opportunity to take it and save things on it, he says.
Click to expand...

Logical_Inference said:
Its not Mickey Mouse....!

The prosecutor now shows an animated movie found on the hard drive on a big screen.
Peter Madsen protests against it. - If you are presenting a narco-case, it is not the case that the judge must try drug. These movies are some I've seen very rarely. Maybe I've seen a single movie, and then it's been a while before I've seen one more.
"I would not be able to see them now," he says. "I think you should save it to the professional judges," he says.
The defender is now asking for a break to talk with her client

These are two animated films of 40 and 64 seconds, but drawn. The prosecutor warns in advance, but says that he has evaluated on that it can be displayed on a big screen. There will be no video of mating or of the video where a woman will cut the throat as mentioned at the last hearing.
Click to expand...

I'm bumping the posts from PM's testimony that reference videos. He seems to be saying others (even his wife) had access to his camera and computer.
 
Thank you all for posting. Are you okay, L_I?

:back:

I caught up with today's day at court and I feel like going vegan for a while.


IMHO it is obvious that PM had been searching for a victim and failed to find one in his network. Kim Wall was an ideal target because she had not known him before, she had no point of reference and the pretext of an interview chimed with her idea of writing an article.


A good friend once said to me after a BF turned nasty:

"That movie had been playing for quite a while, and you did not know what had gone on before when you arrived at the scene."


IMHO KW probably did sense that something was off, but put that down to her fear of submarines. Since young and aspiring female feminist reporters motivate one another to cross boundaries, she pushed fear and guests aside, and accepted the invitation.


:gaah:
 
SATA said:
We all know he lies (and lies and lies and lies some more), so this all seems like such a waste of time!

One thing leaves me curious, and that is what his wife has to say.
Other than that, this case is proven, as far as I am concerned, PM is just wiggling in the (fish)net, as the saying goes in Denmark.
Click to expand...

I don't think his wife is giving evidence if the prosecutor is summing up. I think the defence is going to say it could have been anyone loading and saving the videos, even his wife, based on what has been said before.

It's all about placing doubt in the judges' minds.
 
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