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DNA Doe Project - General Discussion

Discussion in 'General Information & Discussion' started by MelmothTheLost, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    I thought it would be useful to have a general discussion thread for the DNA Doe Project where we can discuss their work and techniques in general terms, which cases we'd like to see them tackle, which cases (if any) we think should maybe have priority over others, talk about the cases they choose to take on and so on.

    This is a rather out of the way part of the board but I couldn't see anywhere with higher traffic where this discussion would fit comfortably. Is there anywhere you think it would fit better? If so, I will ask the Mods to move it where it could be seen by more people.
     
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  2. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons for starting this is to ask which type of cases others think should be the priority for DDP (despite it really being none of our business of course). Put it another way, if you were one of the main movers and shakers there which cases would you prioritise and why, assuming no issues over funding individual cases?

    For me the order of priority would be:

    Murder victims
    Accidental deaths
    Natural causes
    Suicides

    For me murder victims are the Number 1 priority. They need and deserve justice, and the first step in providing that in many of these cases is to identify the victim. They didn't choose to end their lives and deprive themselves of a future. Identifying them does not only return them to their families but hopefully leads to their killer or killers being held accountable for their deaths, even many decades after the event and even if their killer or killers have gone on afterwards to lead exemplary lives.

    I know how much of a "following" Lyle Stevik and Annandale Jane Doe have here, but the fact that these individuals went to great lengths to conceal their identity means that for me the lengths the authorities go to in order to identify them has an element of intrusion into their privacy which I am slightly uncomfortable with. Their privacy and anonymity seem to have been very important to them and much as I like a mystery to be solved part of me wants to respect their wishes in that regard.

    Accidental and natural deaths fall somewhere in the middle for me. Cases of these types that I'd particularly like to see resolved are Bibb County John Doe (https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-WhtMale-UP13483-14-17-MVA-hitchhiking-Mar-61) and Las Vegas (Greyhound Bus Station) Jane Doe (https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...em-UP355-55-60-in-bus-station-restroom-Jul-82). The latter is already on the DDP list of cases under consideration but the former is not.

    It's just possible that Bibb County JD has one or both parents still wondering what happened to him. Much more likely he has one or more siblings wondering. It's also possible that the girl in the photo he was carrying may be wondering why he never wrote to tell her how he was getting on.

    Las Vegas JD would probably be in her mid-90s now so it's unlikely she has even siblings wondering about her, but she might well have children or nieces/nephews wondering what happened to their aunt.

    How would you prioritise cases?
     
  3. mpnola

    mpnola Well-Known Member

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    Does this thread only have 2 posts? Because they have idenrifled Lyle and Buckskin Girl! The things they have done so quickly is nothing short of amazing! Is there a different thread following their progress?
     
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  4. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    There's been no real interest in the thread, which is somewhat surprising (and disappointing) considering the amazing work DDP have done so far. Unfortunately this part of the forum doesn't seem to get much traffic though it seems to be the only appropriate place to discuss the subject.
     
  5. CCJD

    CCJD Well-Known Member

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    I have an affinity for the oldest, coldest unidentified. Not necessarily the popular ones but those who really seem to have been left behind or forgotten.

    That brings me to a question that maybe someone here can answer...

    Black Creek Jane Doe - found in 1973, no dentals (but had a partial plate), no fingerprints and has insufficient DNA for profiling using the methods employed by UNT/NamUs/Codis. Would her DNA be viable for GEDMatch? Or is she just destined to be unknown forever?

    Unidentified Person Case

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons and Unidentified Victims
     
  6. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    She's not necessarily destined to be unknown forever, as you put it. DNA techniques are improving all the time, especially in terms of amplifying poor quality or extrapolating from incomplete DNA. I would hope the authorities concerned would keep developments under review and have another attempt in future instead of deciding that if her DNA was not usable in, say, 2008 then it never will be.

    As things stand, I doubt DDP could help at this point as part of their process involves evaluating the DNA available to check that it's of sufficient quality before they proceed any further, as I believe they need good quality DNA to start with. That said, several of their current cases have had their DNA run again because the first processing attempt didn't produce clear enough results.
     
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  7. folieadeuxnola

    folieadeuxnola Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

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    Just came across this thread... TY. Think it is a great place to discuss past cases DDP has identified and future cases we all would like to see them pick up.

    Of course my 1st choice is right down in my signature :)

    Sahara Sue is another one have a couple more that is not in the crowd following.
     
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  8. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for starting this, Melmoth. I just came across this thread because Folie did. It just may take awhile for folks to spot it.
    I have a handful of cases I would like them to tackle, and I think most are on DDP's list already.

    Arroyo Grande Jane Doe
    Walker County Jane Doe
    The Boy in the Box
    (which will probably have to be taken up by another group because he is a child & DDP says they won't do child cases)
    The Allenstown NH Four
    Paratrooper John Doe

     
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  9. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    Something very interesting in the first post on the Sweetwater County Jane Doe thread:

    WY - WY - Sweetwater Co., Wht/HispFem 213UFWY, 24-32, off I-80, rose tattoo, Mar'92

    Since there seems to be a real possibility that this woman was the victim of a serial killer, it seems to me that DDP has an opportunity to ID a serial killer as well as IDing a murder victim.
     
  10. folieadeuxnola

    folieadeuxnola Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

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    Two birds one stone...... TY for pointing that little tidbit out Melmoth the lost
     
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  11. folieadeuxnola

    folieadeuxnola Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

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    DDP's post 07/21/18, had recently been discussing with another contributor on creating a list however DDP now has it covered... Awesome job!!

    The only list left are the one's that were recommended to DDP by the public.

    Here is a rundown on where we are with cases in the pipeline or currently active. We don’t officially announce a case until it’s actually in or about to enter sequencing, or needs funding prior to DNA extraction. So if they’re in the extraction stage we consider them tentative since we have no idea whether we’ll get DNA:

    Sheep Flat Jane Doe (NV) – pending confirmation
    Belle in the Well (OH) – genealogical analysis still in progress
    Mill Creek Shed Man (WA) – genealogical analysis still in progress
    Beckler River Road Doe (WA) – stalled/ insufficient/contaminated DNA
    Sultan Basin Road Doe (WA) – stalled/ insufficient/contaminated DNA
    Annie Doe – in sequencing
    Butler Co Jane Doe (OH) – at lab for extraction
    Transgender Julie Doe (FL) – at lab for extraction
    Alachua Co, Florida John Doe (Sheriff # 79-2219 ME # CAPHIL 2A79/78-79) – at lab for extraction
    Kings Co, CA Jane Doe (woman in tarp) – at lab for extraction
    Orange Socks Jane Doe (Williamson Co, TX) – at lab for extraction
    Rebel Ray John (Williamson Co, TX) – at lab for extraction
    Corona Girl (Williamson Co, TX) – at lab for extraction

    A few others are about to head to the lab, and many others still under discussion.

    Previous cases already identified:
    Joseph Newton chandler III
    Buckskin Girl
    Lyle Stevik
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  12. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to see that so many cases are heading into extraction at the same time. No doubt there will be more than a few where the DNA is not viable or has been contaminated, but they obviously want to keep a full pipeline of cases. Maybe as they get into the swing of things and streamline their processes, they may be able to expand their team of volunteers and take on more cases at a time than they currently can.
     
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  13. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    The latest news from DDP is that their newest case, Annie Doe from Oregon, will need a second round of DNA extraction because her DNA is highly degraded and the first round of extraction and sequencing has not been successful.

    I wonder if this is due to the age of the remains or to how her remains were buried by her killer and then stored and handled by LE. If the former it would cast doubt on the viability of the older cases.

    I see there's still a donate button on Annie's page on the DDP webpage so presumably they think it worth having another go at her DNA.
     
  14. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    In their Facebook update on 21 July, DDP reported:

    I've not been able to work out which cases these are. Can anyone help?
     
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  15. folieadeuxnola

    folieadeuxnola Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

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    Found (1) Sultan Basin Road UP2886


    Sultan, Snohomish County, Washington
    Unidentified Person Case

    Original.jpg

    --
    Circumstances of RecoveryUnidentified human skeletal remains found scattered in the woods near Sultan Basin Rd, Sultan , Washington. The cause and manner of death have not been determined.
     
  16. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    Oy! I just found out this wonderful thread existed! :)

    I am, however, awestruck by the DDP's work and results so far, and there are quite a few UIDs I would love to see taken on by them. Beth Doe and her baby is one, Irondequoit Jane Doe ( NY - NY - Irondequoit, WhtFem Skeletal 122UFNY, 14-23, in shallow grave, July'88 ) is another. For some reason, I find that case quite odd and intriguing.
     
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  17. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    Isn't that up Parabol Nanolabs' alley rather than DDP?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  18. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    It's a job that either could do, but if DDP were to take on the case of IDing the victim through DNA it would make sense for them to do her killer as well rather than have two different groups working on different aspects of the same case unless there were technical reasons as to why the two IDs should be handled by separate organisations.
     
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  19. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    I agree. It would be unnecessarily inefficient to have to deal with 2+ groups to solve one case, but as a part of their work ethics, DDP has stated they take on cases to identify UIDs, not solve crimes. I hope they continue their success to the point where they perhaps will reconsider some of the cases they won't do now.


    Oh, and it's Parabon Nanolabs! Autocorrect: Ain't it grand? :D
     
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  20. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    In that case I agree - the case sits better with Parabon.
     
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