Elisa Lam possible victim of Serial murderer?

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2Hip2BSquare said:
Thank you! This is a great question and one that I can somewhat answer.

Canine search dogs All are very different and have very different purposes.

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

The article above explains that there is a difference between an Airscent dog, tracking Dog, Trailing Dog, Cadaver Dog, etc. if Elisa was already deceased in water on the roof and they only had the canines that tracked her LIViNG scent or Airscent dogs, they would not be very likely to hone in on Elisa's deceased body. However, if a cadaver dog would have been brought to the roof, it most likely would have picked up on her scent. This may just be a case of detectives not believing a victim was deceased and choosing the corresponding SAR dog to track her living scent.

Man, you would think a canine SAR unit would have all the tracking, trailing, and cadaver dogs working. Maybe they were too busy sending the extra dogs over to find Chris Dorner? The idea alone makes me so sad.
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BBM: I don't know how familiar you are with Southern California, but I am surprised they sent any dogs at all. JMO. And that IS sad.
 
sillybilly said:
In considering a possible SK, FWIW, the Newport Beach victim, Tina had a 1 month old baby (which the media has not addressed beyond that). We do not know where that baby is, but it is certainly something that sets her apart from both Elisa and the more recent death in Goleta of Giselle Esme Ayala.
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Based on scant info we have, I can't see how we could link any of them at this point. If toxicology reports come back with the same drug profiles, that gives us a little more to go on. Remember, that memorial candles were arranged next to TH's body prior to police arrival. That is pretty weird; they thought so too and have it as possible evidence. As for her being a new mom; I don't think that precludes her from being a SK target. I just read some interesting sites on serial killers one which covers myths. Apparently, they can elude police for years because they are not consistent in their MO and rarely do they leave signatures. You can count on their victims being vulnerable in some way, but that is about it.

It is a wonder that we nail as many as we do. I also found it interesting that the media control/compliance is crucial in SK investigations. All flows from one designated media rep for LE and is done so in concise regularly scheduled briefings. Media is also expected to leave the victim's family alone. See anything similar to the media's rather abrupt retreat on EL? Is this why LAPD investigators scrambled around to cancel an interview with the CBC three days after the body was found? They told the CBC anchor that higher ups told them they were not to speak on the case at all. Not drawing any conclusions; just throwing it out there.

Sources: Serial Killer Myths Exposed

FBI: Serial Murder....Perspectives (see chapter on media relations)
 
Conductor71 said:
Based on scant info we have, I can't see how we could link any of them at this point. If toxicology reports come back with the same drug profiles, that gives us a little more to go on. Remember, that memorial candles were arranged next to TH's body prior to police arrival. That is pretty weird; they thought so too and have it as possible evidence. As for her being a new mom; I don't think that precludes her from being a SK target. I just read some interesting sites on serial killers one which covers myths. Apparently, they can elude police for years because they are not consistent in their MO and rarely do they leave signatures. You can count on their victims being vulnerable in some way, but that is about it.

It is a wonder that we nail as many as we do. I also found it interesting that the media control/compliance is crucial in SK investigations. All flows from one designated media rep for LE and is done so in concise regularly scheduled briefings. Media is also expected to leave the victim's family alone. See anything similar to the media's rather abrupt retreat on EL? Is this why LAPD investigators scrambled around to cancel an interview with the CBC three days after the body was found? They told the CBC anchor that higher ups told them they were not to speak on the case at all. Not drawing any conclusions; just throwing it out there.

Sources: Serial Killer Myths Exposed

FBI: Serial Murder....Perspectives (see chapter on media relations)
Click to expand...

I will say that typically with serial killers, information is not usually given to the public. Typically if anything about those investigations is leaked to the media, usually then they will inform the public. That's why I think it's interesting they're keeping so hush hush on all 3 cases, but ESP Elisa.

Again, the LAPD might be in hot water with Interpol for not utilizing adequate SAR efforts. This might be another reason why they have been hush hush. Luke I said, it could have been something like their neglect of bringing both air tracking and cadaver dogs to find her. I know during the time she was missing that the police force was still paranoid about Chris Dorner and finding him. Maybe they sent all the damn dogs to find Dorner considering they thought he was like 20 billion different places at this point. Ooo ooo conspiracy theory! And I digress....
 
Conductor71 said:
Based on scant info we have, I can't see how we could link any of them at this point. If toxicology reports come back with the same drug profiles, that gives us a little more to go on. Remember, that memorial candles were arranged next to TH's body prior to police arrival. That is pretty weird; they thought so too and have it as possible evidence. As for her being a new mom; I don't think that precludes her from being a SK target. I just read some interesting sites on serial killers one which covers myths. Apparently, they can elude police for years because they are not consistent in their MO and rarely do they leave signatures. You can count on their victims being vulnerable in some way, but that is about it.

It is a wonder that we nail as many as we do. I also found it interesting that the media control/compliance is crucial in SK investigations. All flows from one designated media rep for LE and is done so in concise regularly scheduled briefings. Media is also expected to leave the victim's family alone. See anything similar to the media's rather abrupt retreat on EL? Is this why LAPD investigators scrambled around to cancel an interview with the CBC three days after the body was found? They told the CBC anchor that higher ups told them they were not to speak on the case at all. Not drawing any conclusions; just throwing it out there.

Sources: Serial Killer Myths Exposed

FBI: Serial Murder....Perspectives (see chapter on media relations)
Click to expand...

Maybe .Hopefully after we get this crazy whacked lady named Jodi Arias put away forever. Maybe then we can get back to some of the worlds other important crime news and also get hopefully some updated info on this case as well I can't stand the way they cover this case 24/7 as if there is no other important crimes going on in the world that the public needs to hear about just in case someone seen something in any case ...Get Jodi overwith..
 
CanManEh said:
Maybe .Hopefully after we get this crazy whacked lady named Jodi Arias put away forever. Maybe then we can get back to some of the worlds other important crime news and also get hopefully some updated info on this case as well I can't stand the way they cover this case 24/7 as if there is no other important crimes going on in the world that the public needs to hear about just in case someone seen something in any case ...Get Jodi overwith..
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A-freakin-MEN to that! I'm guilty of getting sucked into the Arias trial a bit, but bc it's the only thing being covered.
 
CanManEh said:
Maybe .Hopefully after we get this crazy whacked lady named Jodi Arias put away forever. Maybe then we can get back to some of the worlds other important crime news and also get hopefully some updated info on this case as well I can't stand the way they cover this case 24/7 as if there is no other important crimes going on in the world that the public needs to hear about just in case someone seen something in any case ...Get Jodi overwith..
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Yeah, couldn't agree more. Pretty, white sociopathic women have a tendency to take up way more of crime news and discussion than they should. It's annoying.
 
findinganatta said:
Yeah, couldn't agree more. Pretty, white sociopathic women have a tendency to take up way more of crime news and discussion than they should. It's annoying.
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I have avoided that like the plague. Watched 30 minutes of it one day and felt sleazy just for watching.
 
noodled1 said:
I have avoided that like the plague. Watched 30 minutes of it one day and felt sleazy just for watching.
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Well the case is interesting (and sad, of course) for the same reasons any psychopathic/narcissistic murder case is, so I see no problem with being interested in it. I watched one of those 48 Hours type shows about it. But there is no reason it deserves inordinately more attention than other cases, and it's obvious that her appearance has everything to do with it. And I guess people are interested in female killers period, since they are less likely to kill. But damn if it isn't incredibly irritating to watch her bask in the attention!
 
For all the time they spend judging an already aprehended murderer on HLN they could be giving the public information on predators who are still loose and need to be apprehended. Seems so counterproductive. I understand people like to see a murderer like Jodi as if she were some wild rare predator in captivity and they wonder how such a person could exist... Reality check, there are many many more than JA.
 
2Hip2BSquare said:
For all the time they spend judging an already aprehended murderer on HLN they could be giving the public information on predators who are still loose and need to be apprehended. Seems so counterproductive. I understand people like to see a murderer like Jodi as if she were some wild rare predator in captivity and they wonder how such a person could exist... Reality check, there are many many more than JA.
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Yeah... unfortunately, the media usually uses murder cases as fodder for entertainment instead of using their powers to help in investigations. Cases that are solved (or have a strong suspect in court) tend to get more coverage because they can be packaged as fuller stories, with all the twists and turns in place (even if there is still some degree of mystery, like a good Hollywood movie).

With a story like EL's, it would be hard to even fill the typical hour-long special format without padding it pretty heavily using interviews with 'death water' drinkers and such--sensationalism that wouldn't be helpful to gaining new info, and would probably be pretty insulting to EL's memory and family. It would be nice if they would break up their time to discuss more cases in less detail instead of a few intriguing cases in great detail (although there is certainly a place for that kind of stuff, like on A&E, ID, etc).
 
I definitely don't think that we can conclusively say that this is the work of a serial killer here, but we shouldn't be quick to dismiss it either. A hunt for a serial killer would explain a lot about the 180 turn on media reporting of the case.
 
TheRoger said:
I definitely don't think that we can conclusively say that this is the work of a serial killer here, but we shouldn't be quick to dismiss it either. A hunt for a serial killer would explain a lot about the 180 turn on media reporting of the case.
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I definitely don't think that we can conclusively say that this is a murder at all. The lack of reporting could be attributed to LE's belief that Elisa's death was suicide or misadventure and a lack of evidence to suggest otherwise. It's entirely possible that Elisa's family does not want any publicity for her case because they do not believe foul play is involved, and this has not been established.

At any rate, I think one would need to know that this was a homicide before starting to label it as the work of a serial killer.
 
Montjoy said:
I definitely don't think that we can conclusively say that this is a murder at all. The lack of reporting could be attributed to LE's belief that Elisa's death was suicide or misadventure and a lack of evidence to suggest otherwise. It's entirely possible that Elisa's family does not want any publicity for her case because they do not believe foul play is involved, and this has not been established.

At any rate, I think one would need to know that this was a homicide before starting to label it as the work of a serial killer.
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Thank you. Well put.

And I'm pretty positive it would be made public if they determined it was murder. And I can't imagine that they would be seriously considering it as part of a serial killer investigation without even knowing if it's a murder. So even in the unlikely case that EL's death was the work of a serial killer, I can't fathom that the police are actively investigating it as such.
 
I agree with what you are saying about serial murder, but I don't see the family's desire for privacy resulting in such an extreme switch up in the release of info. The media were respectful of EL's family from the outset. No one speculated on mental health, hounded her parents for comments or reactions, nor crashed her memorial and interment. Respectfully, I don't see a compelling need in this case for the 180 based on wish for privacy.

Compare this to LE's response to Jamie Minor the young woman found trapped inside an HVAC duct system. Right away, LE stated they thought it was an accident, they openly revealed what drug findings they had from autopsy but concluded after toxicology showed traces of bath salts. I think LE would have been open and said they were leaning toward accident, as most water related deaths are assumed to be so by investigators, so this means that they likely do not have evidence to conclude anything right now. I still think, we would have some level of reporting going on and there is nada.

As for it being too early to assume serial murder... I agree it is a stretch. However, there could be an undetected connection from murders that happened years ago. When is the right time to consider it? Just because LE does not see any connections in what they have found does not mean they do not exist. This is where Interpol can be of assistance.

Police do not identify serial murders with a flow chart. The death scenes can be ambiguous or have hardly have any evidence, so from what I have read investigators rely on instinct when identifying a case as serial murders. Obviously, without the toxicology report LE is not going to announce a manner of death, but maybe they are taking charge of media just as precaution?
 
Conductor71 said:
I agree with what you are saying about serial murder, but I don't see the family's desire for privacy resulting in such an extreme switch up in the release of info. The media were respectful of EL's family from the outset. No one speculated on mental health, hounded her parents for comments or reactions, nor crashed her memorial and interment. Respectfully, I don't see a compelling need in this case for the 180 based on wish for privacy.

Compare this to LE's response to Jamie Minor the young woman found trapped inside an HVAC duct system. Right away, LE stated they thought it was an accident, they openly revealed what drug findings they had from autopsy but concluded after toxicology showed traces of bath salts. I think LE would have been open and said they were leaning toward accident, as most water related deaths are assumed to be so by investigators, so this means that they likely do not have evidence to conclude anything right now. I still think, we would have some level of reporting going on and there is nada.

As for it being too early to assume serial murder... I agree it is a stretch. However, there could be an undetected connection from murders that happened years ago. When is the right time to consider it? Just because LE does not see any connections in what they have found does not mean they do not exist. This is where Interpol can be of assistance.

Police do not identify serial murders with a flow chart. The death scenes can be ambiguous or have hardly have any evidence, so from what I have read investigators rely on instinct when identifying a case as serial murders. Obviously, without the toxicology report LE is not going to announce a manner of death, but maybe they are taking charge of media just as precaution?
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I believe it took a month or two for them to announce drugs in Jamie Minor's case, however long it took for the tox test. Up until then, all I saw article-wise were the facts about what happened, discussion of surveillance video of her trying doors, and the fact that she was acting "erratically" at work before they asked her to leave. In her case, the combination of video, her belongings next to the duct opening, and the general circumstances made it very clear it was an accidental, self-caused death. EL's situation bears similarities, but from the info we have, there seems to be much more room for foul play. But in terms of coverage, if Minor's case had more of it (which I'm not sure is the case, based on Google), it probably relates to the fact that it happened in Austin, which is a much smaller city with a closer-knit community than LA. Any strange local story (especially involving a cute girl and death) is likely to get quite a bit of coverage in Austin, based on my experience living there.

And I agree with you about the serial murder thing... it's possible there is a serial killer, but I was responding directly to the comments about whether or not the LE is being quiet because they suspect it is a serial killer. That part I doubt. There may be a detective or profiler who is looking into it, but as a department I don't think they are connecting her death with any killer until they determine whether or not it's murder.
 
Conductor71 said:
Based on scant info we have, I can't see how we could link any of them at this point. If toxicology reports come back with the same drug profiles, that gives us a little more to go on. Remember, that memorial candles were arranged next to TH's body prior to police arrival. That is pretty weird; they thought so too and have it as possible evidence. As for her being a new mom; I don't think that precludes her from being a SK target. I just read some interesting sites on serial killers one which covers myths. Apparently, they can elude police for years because they are not consistent in their MO and rarely do they leave signatures. You can count on their victims being vulnerable in some way, but that is about it.

It is a wonder that we nail as many as we do. I also found it interesting that the media control/compliance is crucial in SK investigations. All flows from one designated media rep for LE and is done so in concise regularly scheduled briefings. Media is also expected to leave the victim's family alone. See anything similar to the media's rather abrupt retreat on EL? Is this why LAPD investigators scrambled around to cancel an interview with the CBC three days after the body was found? They told the CBC anchor that higher ups told them they were not to speak on the case at all. Not drawing any conclusions; just throwing it out there.

Sources: Serial Killer Myths Exposed

FBI: Serial Murder....Perspectives (see chapter on media relations)
Click to expand...

I wasn't including or excluding the possibility of any of them being a victim of a serial killer ... simply noting a difference in victimology. Another thing wrt victimology is, that while they do not have the same ethnicity, they are all brown haired, brown eyed, none of them are blonde, blue-eyed Caucasian.

WRT possible MO, we don't have a COD or MOD, so can't even guess at that one.

Long shot here, IF there was an SK, water might possibly be the signature (i.e. too hard to replicate a water tank scenario, so possibly settles for beaches instead). Kaczynski's signature was determined to be things related to nature (water, trees, etc)

JMO
 
sillybilly said:
Re the Goleta victim:



from:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...foot-cliff-wild-spring-break-beach-party.html
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Thank you for the update! Much appreciated!

The article notes that toxicology and cause of death were pending for her. Have we gotten any Toxicology/COD updates? So tragic.

Let's not forget that many females are sexually assaulted while going to the restroom - especially in the woods and alone.

However, I do think this is probably a tragic case of a student having fun and unfortunately not being aware of her precarious surroundings/cliffs while intoxicated.
 
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