Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Why did Elisa die?

  • Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    Votes: 162 47.4%
  • Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    Votes: 46 13.5%
  • Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    Votes: 86 25.1%
  • Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • Unsure/Do not know

    Votes: 36 10.5%

  • Total voters
    342
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Hi Peter. Thanks for your response. Question though: You said you chose homicide because it would be hard for a person to get rid of clothes such that they cannot be found, once they already got onto the roof, got undressed, got into the tank and drowned. But since we don;t know whether LE found her clothes or not, how can you be so certain that it was homicide?

Also, what if she took her clothes off before she got onto the roof? Removing one's clothes happens quite often to people in psychotic states, apparently.

*** snipped to the part connected to my post ***

1.) I still don't agree with all that guess, EL was in a psychotic break of some kind in the elevator video. Therefore, I can't argue, it's common for people in psychotic breaks to remove their clothes. Which by the way, in my experience isn't.

2.) LAPD is under fire because not many people believe their idea, this was no foul play. The pivot points in this are the clothes, the glasses and the cell phone. If they found anything of it, they would either release it (to show, they are right not to treat this as homicide) or keep it a secret if they think themselves, this was a homicide.

So I still go with homicide.
 
Is there something someone experiencing psychosis wouldn't do?
 
1.) I still don't agree with all that guess, EL was in a psychotic break of some kind in the elevator video. Therefore, I can't argue, it's common for people in psychotic breaks to remove their clothes. Which by the way, in my experience isn't.

2.) LAPD is under fire because not many people believe their idea, this was no foul play. The pivot points in this are the clothes, the glasses and the cell phone. If they found anything of it, they would either release it (to show, they are right not to treat this as homicide) or keep it a secret if they think themselves, this was a homicide.

So I still go with homicide.

You had a psychotic break before?
 
Is there something someone experiencing psychosis wouldn't do?

The thing about psychotic breaks is that if you're at the point where you've ripped your clothes off, you're no longer being sneaky.

If she was suffering a psychotic break then there are even more things that I have a problem with:

No one and no camera saw her naked (as far as we know)

She somehow was clear-headed enough to make it to the roof via a ladder, but she wasn't clear-headed enough to keep her clothing on

Her clothing still hasn't been found (As far as we know)
 
The thing about psychotic breaks is that if you're at the point where you've ripped your clothes off, you're no longer being sneaky.

If she was suffering a psychotic break then there are even more things that I have a problem with:

No one and no camera saw her naked (as far as we know)

She somehow was clear-headed enough to make it to the roof via a ladder, but she wasn't clear-headed enough to keep her clothing on

Her clothing still hasn't been found (As far as we know)

I have trouble with an episode of some form too... Feels too easy to just say she's having an episode so anything and everything is possible and any inconsistencies can be explained away with that's what people having an episode do. Too one sized fits all for me.

Not saying she wasn't in some unbalanced state when whatever happened, happened... But I do feel that whatever happened including suicide or death by misadventure wasn't solely because she was having some type of episode.
 
The thing about psychotic breaks is that if you're at the point where you've ripped your clothes off, you're no longer being sneaky.

If she was suffering a psychotic break then there are even more things that I have a problem with:

No one and no camera saw her naked (as far as we know)

She somehow was clear-headed enough to make it to the roof via a ladder, but she wasn't clear-headed enough to keep her clothing on

Her clothing still hasn't been found (As far as we know)

There are some symptoms, I would look for, even it's more probably than certain one or all of them or any special combination shows up.

- talking to herself
- partial face twitsching

just as examples.
 
Nope, but I dealt with people with long term psychosis and also some accute cases due to drug abuse before. Comes with the territory when you study SKs and other whackos for decades.

You seem to believe all psychotic breaks are the same. That everyone breaks down the same way and behaves identical. In my book, your assumption is wrong.
 
1.)

2.) LAPD is under fire because not many people believe their idea, this was no foul play. The pivot points in this are the clothes, the glasses and the cell phone. If they found anything of it, they would either release it (to show, they are right not to treat this as homicide) or keep it a secret if they think themselves, this was a homicide.

So I still go with homicide.

i have a hard time believing it was planned suicide. if those were the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared, why would she put a sweater on if she was going to strip naked and jump into a tank of cold water?
 
The thing about psychotic breaks is that if you're at the point where you've ripped your clothes off, you're no longer being sneaky.
Psychosis isn't anywhere near that consistent or logical. She may have taken the clothes off when she was alone on the roof, then tossed them off the building into the alley/parking lot, laid them down where they were blown away by wind, or some rooftop visitor may have done something with them.

Some people suffering from psychosis are capable of switching from paranoid/self-conscious to uninhibited from one moment to the next (which is what the elevator video probably illustrates, in my opinion). Psychosis doesn't follow logic, as anyone who has witnessed a bad trip can attest to... which leads me to this post:
I have trouble with an episode of some form too... Feels too easy to just say she's having an episode so anything and everything is possible and any inconsistencies can be explained away with that's what people having an episode do. Too one sized fits all for me.
(trimmed for space :) )

Your feeling that it's "too easy" of an explanation doesn't mean it isn't true. I see the logic you're using, but I do think it's flawed. I wonder if you're familiar with psychosis. As another post above mentioned, it can take on varied behaviors in different people, and their own personalities can play a fairly big role.

Generally, I feel like the most obvious answer to an investigation is where you should start. From the evidence the public has, I feel like psychosis-related death is the most obvious explanation.

As for a psychosis being a scapegoat theory to easily explain any inconsistencies or strange behaviors, I would argue that it's a far more realistic scenario than many of the highly-speculative :)moo:) scenarios people have attributed to this case. The concept of psychosis is fully grounded in reality, and its signature is present in aspects of this incident and evidence/history behind it.
 
- From reading/getting more and more information....

- who complained about water pressure issues? ( Reading about the hotel, it has had water pressure issues for a long...time)...who complained...where is the report?...or at least the person who contacted maintenance?

- why check inside the tank for obstructuions???.....the pump is on the outside of the tank.....the only thing inside the tank is water....and a syphon pipe....syphon pipe is going to get blocked by water? ( syphons water from the top section of the tank.....not the bottom where the debris is)

Theory....

more and more I keep coming back to the person who found the body....the person who knows how the tanks work...and how to access them.

- somehow Elisa Lam dies in th presence of the "maintenance person" ( does he find her intoxicated? or maybe slightly out of it like on the video?..takes advantage of her?.....)


- only 1 day passes and her family is already looking for her!!!...police are already contacted.....only a matter of time before they search the hotel.

- m person is very familar with the Hotel security/video cameras...person knows he can't get her body out of the hotel to his vehicle without a great possibilty of bieng seen by someone or a camera

- decides to hide body in water tank in desperation....( buy him a little time to decide on a better plan/ wait for LE presence to die down)

Person realizes that he cannot get the body back out.....only a matter of time before the water becomes very contaminated...and or a mandatory water test comes back as positive for contamination.....The water tanks would have to be inspected.

- decides to pretend there was a water pressure problem..and he just happened to find the body.

( the only way out at this point)


I am suspicious too of the maintenance worker...am curious if was on the clock working that day


and most hotels have the main infrustructure housed in the basement, unless the Cecil has an unusual design scheme, I dont see checking the roof tanks...was checking the roof tanks normal routine for low pressure?

I think the maint worker should be a suspect, most definitely
 
Psychosis isn't anywhere near that consistent or logical. She may have taken the clothes off when she was alone on the roof, then tossed them off the building into the alley/parking lot, laid them down where they were blown away by wind, or some rooftop visitor may have done something with them.

Some people suffering from psychosis are capable of switching from paranoid/self-conscious to uninhibited from one moment to the next (which is what the elevator video probably illustrates, in my opinion). Psychosis doesn't follow logic, as anyone who has witnessed a bad trip can attest to... which leads me to this post:

(trimmed for space :) )

Your feeling that it's "too easy" of an explanation doesn't mean it isn't true. I see the logic you're using, but I do think it's flawed. I wonder if you're familiar with psychosis. As another post above mentioned, it can take on varied behaviors in different people, and their own personalities can play a fairly big role.

Generally, I feel like the most obvious answer to an investigation is where you should start. From the evidence the public has, I feel like psychosis-related death is the most obvious explanation.

As for a psychosis being a scapegoat theory to easily explain any inconsistencies or strange behaviors, I would argue that it's a far more realistic scenario than many of the highly-speculative :)moo:) scenarios people have attributed to this case. The concept of psychosis is fully grounded in reality, and its signature is present in aspects of this incident and evidence/history behind it.




Good Evening findinganatta,


- your theory does seem highly likely and answers / solves many questions. ( and may be the most logical and when it's all said and done.....the final verdict on how she passed away)

- a couple questions..

from watching the elevator video...do you think Elisa Lam is under the influence of drugs?..maybe having a "bad trip"

do you think intense paranoia may have been why she went to the roof?

you seem familiar with the effects of being in that state of mind.....what's your gut say?




( if you already posted your thoughts in another thread......I'm sorry just link me....enjoy your input)
 
I can see the interpretation of Elisa experiencing psychosis as a possibility. What seems less likely is that she would go through all the difficulties of getting into that tank while still in a psychotic state. I would think differently if I believed she was often frequenting the roof, was familiar with the water tanks and their lids, etc. If the psychotic episodes come and go quickly, wouldn't she head back to her room after finding herself on the roof? If they are long lasting, wouldn't she be too disoriented to make the efforts of getting into that tank? It's not impossible, but does strike me as far fetched. But that is just my opinion and might change as I learn more.
 



I am suspicious too of the maintenance worker...am curious if was on the clock working that day


and most hotels have the main infrustructure housed in the basement, unless the Cecil has an unusual design scheme, I dont see checking the roof tanks...was checking the roof tanks normal routine for low pressure?

I think the maint worker should be a suspect, most definitely

It would be since that's where the water comes from
 
You seem to believe all psychotic breaks are the same. That everyone breaks down the same way and behaves identical. In my book, your assumption is wrong.

I'm always amazed, when people tell me, what I think or believe ... and how wrong they are. So please stick to what you believe and don't try to tell me what I believe in your opinion. Because you're wrong!
 
Psychosis isn't anywhere near that consistent or logical. She may have taken the clothes off when she was alone on the roof, then tossed them off the building into the alley/parking lot, laid them down where they were blown away by wind, or some rooftop visitor may have done something with them.

Some people suffering from psychosis are capable of switching from paranoid/self-conscious to uninhibited from one moment to the next (which is what the elevator video probably illustrates, in my opinion). Psychosis doesn't follow logic, as anyone who has witnessed a bad trip can attest to... which leads me to this post:

(trimmed for space :) )

Your feeling that it's "too easy" of an explanation doesn't mean it isn't true. I see the logic you're using, but I do think it's flawed. I wonder if you're familiar with psychosis. As another post above mentioned, it can take on varied behaviors in different people, and their own personalities can play a fairly big role.

Generally, I feel like the most obvious answer to an investigation is where you should start. From the evidence the public has, I feel like psychosis-related death is the most obvious explanation.

As for a psychosis being a scapegoat theory to easily explain any inconsistencies or strange behaviors, I would argue that it's a far more realistic scenario than many of the highly-speculative :)moo:) scenarios people have attributed to this case. The concept of psychosis is fully grounded in reality, and its signature is present in aspects of this incident and evidence/history behind it.

Lets for a moment assume, you rea right. I don't say you are, but lets assume it, just for the sake of the argument ...
Even a psychotic person would have to find those tanks first to jump in it. Thus, your theory would make only sense, if, while in a psychotic break, EL went to look for a tank of which she may or may not knew it existed in the first place, to get herself drowned in it ... without any sign of drowning of course, that could show up during the autopsy.
The point is, even if you declare, she was psychotic in the elevator movie, it explains in fact nothing. It doesn't explain, how she came on the roof, how she came in the tank, why nobody saw her in between. The only thing, the "psychotic" theory does is making clear, that she would have drawn even more attention from anyone who crossed her path. But nobody came forward. As of yet, this whole psychotic break theory is kind of an arbitrary idea that sill doesn't explain any of the facts, merely a motivation born from her state of mind.
 
Im happy i could let go of this case,..
Been clean for a week now haha.
Tho Im still curious to what the report will say
 
If she's never had psychotic episodes before, she likely didn't have one in the elevator. She was only talking to her "invisible friend", outside the elevator - not inside, which would suggest there was someone there.

The only "proof" of psychosis is an elevator video with no audio and limited scope of vision.

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"
 
I'm always amazed, when people tell me, what I think or believe ... and how wrong they are. So please stick to what you believe and don't try to tell me what I believe in your opinion. Because you're wrong!

Dude, get your anger in check. No one told you what to believe. I said your assumption was wrong. Unless you're admitting that you do believe all psychosis is the same for every single case out there.
 
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