Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[Nickfalzone]

rough overlay i did of her photo near the crime scene jacket

wondering if this was found inside shed by the FD... creepy

 

[jetsetsam]

It doesn't look like it has long sleeves.

And it also looks like a black piece of plastic, like a black plastic garbage bag.

And if it was a jacket found at the scene, would they have left it lying on the dirty roof, in the rain?

 

[Conductor71]

And if it was a jacket found at the scene, would they have left it lying on the dirty roof, in the rain?

This was my thought too. I would think that it would be considered as holding potential trace evidence and at the very least placed in a labeled bag. However, I do not think the scene looked like it was treated as though a crime had taken place, so who knows?

 

[noodled1]

It doesn't look like it has long sleeves.

And it also looks like a black piece of plastic, like a black plastic garbage bag.

And if it was a jacket found at the scene, would they have left it lying on the dirty roof, in the rain?

It is a plastic bag. Somewhere in all this discussion this has been discussed before and there's a pic that clearly shows it's a plastic trash bag

 

[Sillybilly]

It is a plastic bag. Somewhere in all this discussion this has been discussed before and there's a pic that clearly shows it's a plastic trash bag

I recall the pics and discussion of black plastic bags atop the water tanks, but don't recall any others. I've searched the forum using the terms "plastic" and "garbage" and "trash" but haven't found anything that relates to what you say.

If someone has a link to the pic and/or the discussion, i'd appreciate it

 

[findinganatta]

Also, wasn't it explicitly stated that none of her clothes were found on the roof? Or am I not remembering correctly? As the months move on, I'm forgetting some of the details, and it's surprisingly difficult (at least for me) to find certain answers that one would think would be fairly easy to find through news searches. Then again, a lot of the information was both sparse and misreported--and in some cases we have no idea whose report is the accurate one.

snipped

Am I alone in being quite spooked by this picture? I don't think a fictional Hollywood movie could have come up with a more fitting self portrait for a girl who would die so mysteriously and strangely. '
I don't mean to trivialize EL's death. But as someone who's very interested in her and what happened to her, these thoughts naturally come up.

 

[Sillybilly]

Also, wasn't it explicitly stated that none of her clothes were found on the roof?

May have been stated by a poster, but certainly not by LE. The only reference LE ever made whatsoever to her personal possessions was that they had some of her belongings. Clothing or location were not specified.

HTH

 

[Conductor71]

I have been so focused on this case I missed the details of another mysterious death involving water, and this happened very close to home. Four months later the police have few clues and no leads. There are some similarities to EL, and I am not saying that they are at all related. I am especially looking at LE handling of info and what might be a similar outcome with EL if death is not determined accidental.

The other case:

12/11/12
Victim: 23 year old college student Julia Niswender (JN)
Location: Body found in her bathtub in unnatural position.
Autopsy findings: No visible signs of trauma. No sexual assault. Cause of Death inconclusive pending toxicology results.
1/29/13
Death ruled homicide by LE based on toxicology reports.
Other things to note: Victim was very active on social media and had recently traveled (although not alone).
Odd thing: She lived in an apt complex converted into dorm style living but had private bedroom and bath. No sign of forced entry and no one heard any crashes or struggling.
4/10/13 Family reveals more details of her death against wishes of LE because no progress is being made in the investigation. Cause of death is drowning and family will not reveal whether she was found nude or dressed.

At this point, LE has interviewed 100 known to the victim with nothing to go on and Homeland Security's Cyber crime group is now involved.

Anyway, I was mostly interested in what info LE released and involvement of media since this case was more obviously homicide. LE would reveal absolutely no details on the case and did not attempt to clear up any contradictory reports by media like where the body was found or whether clothed or not.

Even after toxicology report, LE still would only say "homicide" feeling even cause of death too sensitive to release. Media treatment was essentially the same as EL, everything went quiet while toxicology report was pending. It seems then that this might support that in EL's case they are merely protecting info in the event it is ruled homicide, and they are doing a darn good job of it.

If EL's death is determined to be a homicide and drowning is cause of death (if they reveal that), the creepiest things about both are how did could happen in both cases without any sort of commotion or detection. Wouldn't there be screaming or lots of grasping or flailing going on? Sorry to be so graphic. No suspect drugs were detected in JN's case. I just cannot imagine how this could happen undetected inside a dorm when college was in full session?

Anyway, I am sharing this why I don't know, insomnia, or just to fill space and time. Also there is a reward in JN's case, but even less to go on clue wise. However, you never know who might have an idea that helps. Also, JN's college put up this nifty media coverage page on their server to help with the investigation. Nice idea.

Here are is a link to the media page:

http://www.emich.edu/investigation/media.php

Julia Niswender on Websleuths:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193180&page=20

 

[Cerraphine]

Yes, I recall there being over 100 individual homicides covered by the media. I'll do a more in-depth search to catch all the BC ones, if you like, but I think this is enough to illustrate my point -- here is a map of the 72 homicides that occurred just in Metro Vancouver & the Fraser Valley in 2009, with link to at least one article for each of them (though most end up with, on average, 2-3 -- "we've found a body," "it's gang-related/not", "suspect charged/police are looking for suspects.") If you click a name, it'll show you the links to at least one article.

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/features/homicide/2009.html

Homicides are considered very big news here.

The disrespect is more of a subjective thing than objective -- all the media reports talking about how disgusting the water was and how unsanitary it is for a dead girl to be in the water, when IMHO the focus should be on the passing of a young and promising girl. It was an emotional reaction on my part, so I'm not going to bother posting links -- what I find disrespectful, others probably just find factual. I'm too close to this case.

I was going to say that there were easily 100+ individual homicides covered here that year, but you've said it much better than I could have. Homicides here are indeed considered 'big news.' I also found some of the reports disrespectful, but I feel like I'm too close to this case as well.

Kind of a general question: When someone is a victim of a homicide or they go missing, can LE go through private FB messages or Nexopia/Myspace etc?

I just can't get over the feeling that Elisa was meeting someone in LA or had planned to and that her cellphone(s) going missing might have been to help hide any previous communication between herself and anyone she might have been visiting along the way.

 

[jetsetsam]

"her cellphone(s) going missing might have been to help hide any previous communication between herself and anyone she might have been visiting along the way."

The service provider would have the call logs. I don't know about text messages though.

 

[Cerraphine]

The service provider would have the call logs. I don't know about text messages though.

Thanks

 

[Conductor71]

Kind of a general question: When someone is a victim of a homicide or they go missing, can LE go through private FB messages or Nexopia/Myspace etc?

The police generally need a search warrant, but if victim is deceased? Hard to find info on that. I am thinking maybe just consent of the family is all that is required?

I just can't get over the feeling that Elisa was meeting someone in LA or had planned to and that her cellphone(s) going missing might have been to help hide any previous communication between herself and anyone she might have been visiting along the way.

I am thinking the same. Her itinerary is quite easy to follow on Tumblr for anyone who knows how to use Twitter.

Is this saying that her cell phone was taken intentionally, right? We had a brief discussion on that somewhere that focused on when the cell phone was lost. However, the police had access to some sort of cell phone she had been using while there. Interestingly, at the missing persons press conference on Feb 6th Lt. Teague responded to a question on EL's phone saying " I don't want to talk about the cell phone, right now, very much, we have some of her property..."

Obviously some evidence there.

The service provider would have the call logs. I don't know about text messages though.

Text messages can be retrieved in full for about 3 days to 2 weeks depending on the carrier.

 

[Cerraphine]

Thanks Conductor71. I must have missed some of the conversation about the cellphone, when it was lost etc. I do remember now, somewhere in a previous post, the mention of Lt. Teague's response about the cell phone. Why wouldn't they want to talk about it?

:twocents: Maybe there was someone involved who was high-profile or 'important' in the community/area. Of course, probably not. I hope some sort of break happens soon in this case, but the sad truth is we may never know who did this to Elisa or what was going on in that elevator that night.

 

[Marlon]

Also, wasn't it explicitly stated that none of her clothes were found on the roof? Or am I not remembering correctly? As the months move on, I'm forgetting some of the details, and it's surprisingly difficult (at least for me) to find certain answers that one would think would be fairly easy to find through news searches. Then again, a lot of the information was both sparse and misreported--and in some cases we have no idea whose report is the accurate one.


Am I alone in being quite spooked by this picture? I don't think a fictional Hollywood movie could have come up with a more fitting self portrait for a girl who would die so mysteriously and strangely. '
I don't mean to trivialize EL's death. But as someone who's very interested in her and what happened to her, these thoughts naturally come up.

This is a freaky picture. To me It looks as if the little detail of her face that is exposed to our view is smudged out.

 

[findinganatta]

May have been stated by a poster, but certainly not by LE. The only reference LE ever made whatsoever to her personal possessions was that they had some of her belongings. Clothing or location were not specified.

HTH

Thanks for your insight on that. It so hard to separate fact from fiction about some of these details : / Well, certainly it is when you're taking in a lot of posts and information from random internet people! (But it's worth it given all of the cool and worthwhile info/opinions those same people can offer.)

 

[serenerelief]

It's been more then 8 weeks since they announced additional time to do a toxicology report. WTF is going on, why is there no news?

 

[findinganatta]

It's been more then 8 weeks since they announced additional time to do a toxicology report. WTF is going on, why is there no news?

I'm starting to think it's never going to be publicly released...? I don't remember a tox test taking this long in the past.

 

[jetsetsam]

Someone on this board posted that they have a contact with a news reporter who said that it would be the beginning of May for the toxicology tests.

Whoever that was, I think a lot of people here would appreciate an update on timing from their reporter friend.

I look here a couple of times a day for a news update.

 

[walklikeacat]

Someone on this board posted that they have a contact with a news reporter who said that it would be the beginning of May for the toxicology tests.

It was said in an article at chinanews.com that it would take another month to receive the toxicology report. The pathalogist that was mentioned is Yulai Wang which is a Deputy Medical Examiner in LA. I have been sending two mails to an journalist namned Jessie Liang at KTSF 26 asking questions about further information within this case, but no replies.

Here is the article at china news: http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/04-10/4716555.shtml

More people in this thread should be sending questions about this case to journalists and reporters, specially locals in LA.

Dr. Yulai Wang can easily be found if someone is willing to contact him: http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-yulai-wang-w4ffj/address

So, if that article is telling the truth then we can maybe take note of that toxicology report within these next two weeks...hopefully. I am also looking up the news every each day and I am very frustrated about the lack of information so far.

 

[walklikeacat]

I have no mail address to this Yulai Wang but I have been sending a mail to Ed Winter which is Assistant Chief for Investigation at LA County Department of Coroner. My question is about the time for this last toxicology report. But I am not sure if I will get a reply.
http://coroner.lacounty.gov/htm/contact.cfm