Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[*Lash*]

I'm also curious about numbers 41-45. Rebecca's clothing and personal property was destroyed prior to death by the named defendants. What personal property and what happened to her clothing?

 

[time]

Yikes. "Lawyerspeak" makes my teeth itch.
:croc:

(excuse me.)

Ditto! :crazy:

 

[time]

I'm also curious about numbers 41-45. Rebecca's clothing and personal property was destroyed prior to death by the named defendants. What personal property and what happened to her clothing?

Second Cause of Action, page 6, items 26-30 -

In my opinion, in number 30 the plaintiffs are definitely alleging premeditated murder was committed by ALL 3 defendants. If I am understanding correctly number 27, it appears Rebecca was aware the defendants were about to carry out their threats. Did someone warn Rebecca that the defendants planned to murder her? Anyone have an opinion on number 27?

Very interesting. I wonder what they have that we don't know about?

I think 26 is also interesting...

"Defendants, each of them intentionally....threatened to cause immediate physical harm to Rebecca by threatening to stalk, attack, choke, gag, bound, and hang her at the premises"

Maybe this is just the way you claim premeditation and that she would have been aware of what was going to happen for some time before it was completed, but seems it could mean more. This, "Rebecca's clothing and personal property was destroyed prior to death" seems to say there is some specific evidence it points to.

 

[Quester]

Interesting - official death certificate shows cause of death as "PENDING". :waitasec:

 

[inthedark14]

I'm also curious about numbers 41-45. Rebecca's clothing and personal property was destroyed prior to death by the named defendants. What personal property and what happened to her clothing?

This is very interesting because haven't we always wondered what happened to RZ's clothes? I don't think that any definitive answer was ever given by LE as to what happened to her clothes. Perhaps the Z family has proof that the clothes she was wearing that day went missing. I am also curious about what other property could be missing.

 

[Cherry]

Good; I hope the next thing we hear about are the arrests. It's been a long time coming. Just because they have money; let's hope they are all soon to find themselves in a small cell with chit for food. She was murdered imo and this was in no way any type of suicide. Those who thought so need to go back to class; esp those in LE and otherwise that thought so. It's as absurd now as it was then. JMO

 

[Zinn]

Interesting - official death certificate shows cause of death as "PENDING". :waitasec:

Could it be a death certificate from early on, before a cause of death was reported? Or is this a new development?

 

[MaybeNotToday]

General Allegations/SOF page 4

12. On or around the morning of July 13, 2011, Defendants ADAM, DINA, and NINA, and each of them, conspired to plan, and did in fact murder REBECCA ZAHAU in Coronado, California.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38773&d=1384237874

Pretty ballsy! Hope they can back it up as I didn't see an IMO in there (which I know is silly). Maybe defendants should write back, "Link please! TIA!"

I am so confused about the damages portion of this lawsuit. They were financially dependent on Rebecca?

 

[inthedark14]

Could it be a death certificate from early on, before a cause of death was reported? Or is this a new development?

IIRC didn't Dr. Lucas, the ME only finally sign the death cert the day before the SDSO press conference?

 

[time]

Interesting - official death certificate shows cause of death as "PENDING". :waitasec:

Good catch. If you look down on the document the 'Manner of Death' is also 'Pending investigation'. Just my thoughts, but I think unfortunately the body was released for burial before the cause and manner were determined. I say 'unfortunately' because perhaps one would not bury their relative and would seek another autopsy before burial if they suspected murder but it came back suicide.

 

[Zinn]

Second Cause of Action, page 6, items 26-30 -

In my opinion, in number 30 the plaintiffs are definitely alleging premeditated murder was committed by ALL 3 defendants. If I am understanding correctly number 27, it appears Rebecca was aware the defendants were about to carry out their threats. Did someone warn Rebecca that the defendants planned to murder her? Anyone have an opinion on number 27?

Did we ever see the actual wording of the text sent from NR's phone to RZ's phone? I recall NR said the text basically said she wanted to come over and discuss what happened to Max, but have we ever seen the actual wording? Is that something that could have been retrieved somehow?

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[inthedark14]

Did we ever see the actual wording of the text sent from NR's phone to RZ's phone? I recall NR said the text basically said she wanted to come over and discuss what happened to Max, but have we ever seen the actual wording? Is that something that could have been retrieved somehow?

All of the above is just my opinion.

:goodpost:

Jumping off of this, I wonder also, what NR may have said to RZ during the car ride to Rady's. It's quite possible that RZ would have relayed this conversation to her sister. NR gave a detailed description of the car ride during the interview she gave. http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

I wonder if perhaps she wasn't just asking/begging RZ for information as she has stated, I wonder if she threatened her. That would explain why RZ didn't answer any texts from NR that evening.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Zinn]

Second Cause of Action, page 6, items 26-30 -

In my opinion, in number 30 the plaintiffs are definitely alleging premeditated murder was committed by ALL 3 defendants. If I am understanding correctly number 27, it appears Rebecca was aware the defendants were about to carry out their threats. Did someone warn Rebecca that the defendants planned to murder her? Anyone have an opinion on number 27?

If LE concluded she jumped from the balcony, and they have confirmed blood was found on the floor at the entry to that room (the location of the painted message on the door), and it is believed Rebecca was alive when she went over the balcony, the working theory is that Rebecca was alive in that room immediately prior to her death. If Rebecca was in that room but didn't didn't bind herself, she would've seen someone else tying the elaborate knots to the bed, or she would've seen the result of their efforts. Given the tape residue on her legs, it seems possible she was taped to something to limit her mobility prior to her death. So now you have someone naked and immobilized in a room with a rope tied to a bed frame. She must have been terrified.

There was also the message on the door, though we don't know if Rebecca saw it. And there was the "document addressed to Jonah" listed on the search warrant, the content of which is unknown.

ETA: If there is evidence (such as an intimidating text and screams heard by neighbors) that a conflict began late in the evening, but the time of death was established as 3:00am, it seems there was likely a large window of time when Rebecca was aware of what was happening to her prior to her death.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[K_Z]

Could it be a death certificate from early on, before a cause of death was reported? Or is this a new development?

At the bottom of the death certificate it says “Date issued: July 21, 2011.” In the coroner’s use only section (119) under Manner of Death the “pending investigation” box is checked, and in the Cause of Death section (107) “pending” is listed. The date of disposition listed is July 18, 2011.

IMO, the Zahau attorneys used this original death certificate quite intentionally. I believe they will argue that the death WAS being investigated as a homicide and murder, and the wrong conclusion was reached by authorities subsequent to the production of this original document.

I think it is very significant to the WDS that the original death certificate does not say “suicide”. That leaves the door wide open for the Zahau attorneys to argue that the wrong conclusion was reached by authorities, IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38774&d=1384239865

 

[kittychi]

IIRC didn't Dr. Lucas, the ME only finally sign the death cert the day before the SDSO press conference?

IMO that's when he signed a revised autopsy report.

Could there be a revised DC also?

 

[K_Z]

I'm also curious about numbers 41-45. Rebecca's clothing and personal property was destroyed prior to death by the named defendants. What personal property and what happened to her clothing?

I'm wondering if the CONTENT of a message intended for Rebecca could be considered personal property? Or the message itself-- is an electronic transmission or a voice mail recording considered personal property?

Because I'm wondering if the deleted voicemail purportedly from Jonah that no one ever heard could be considered property that was destroyed by the defendants? Also, the text message from Nina?

 

[K_Z]

The death certificate has to be attached to demonstrate MZL's standing as being named personal representative/ successor in interest. It's attached to the "declaration of plaintiff MZL pursuant to California code of Civil procedure 377.32." MZL is the informant listed in box 26, "Informant's name and relationship".

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/CCP/3/2/3/4/3/s377.32

http://www.scribd.com/doc/124148473...-32-of-the-California-Code-of-Civil-Procedure

 

[K_Z]

IMO that's when he signed a revised autopsy report.

Could there be a revised DC also?

This is from the San Diego County Coroner's office website:

What does "pending" mean on a death certificate?

In approximately 30% of our cases we are unable to record a definitive cause and/or manner of death on the death certificate immediately following our examination. After the exam is completed, it is sometimes necessary for us to perform microscopic, chemical or toxicological tests in order to arrive at the exact cause of death.

The death certificate shows the cause of death as "pending" Can I use this as proof of death?

If a death certificate lists a cause of death as "pending", it will eventually be amended to reflect the actual cause of death, although this may take many weeks. A "pending" death certificate can be used as proof of death. If one is not immediately available, you may request a Letter of Certification of Death from our Office.

Some institutions will consider this document sufficient to complete certain transactions such as closing a bank account. However, many institutions (such as insurance companies) will not accept a Letter of Certification listing a cause of death as pending, and require the actual cause of death.

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/faqs/faq.html#1

 

[time]

I'm wondering if the CONTENT of a message intended for Rebecca could be considered personal property? Or the message itself-- is an electronic transmission or a voice mail recording considered personal property?

Because I'm wondering if the deleted voicemail purportedly from Jonah that no one ever heard could be considered property that was destroyed by the defendants? Also, the text message from Nina?

I have always wondered if Jonah changed his story on the content of that message after he realized Adam might be suspected.

Also, I do not think we have ever seen that text from Nina. I hope it was retrieved, but maybe it was erased? That would add another mark against the defendants. Remember, Nina came up with a reason her fingerprints were on Rebecca's phone.

Even a simple message from Nina saying basically "I want to come over and talk to you about what happened to Max" would have made me uneasy if I were Rebecca given it was late at night, given the context of the ride from the airport, and given the way Nina comes off in her interview about it all. Then we have Nina lying about the time.

 

[*Lash*]

I don't recall ever hearing Rebecca had a life insurance policy that would have needed to be provided to the funeral home as payment. Plus a pending or suicide ruling would not be accepted by a life insurance claims adjuster. So why was it necessary to issue the DC with a pending manner of death? Do funeral homes need a DC for burial?