EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

[PeterThomasFan]

I am curious about everyone's thoughts on something. When the M's were arrested and their home searched, LE said that they found "something of concern". They listed the conditions of the home, the guns,the journals,ect. What do you all think is the "concerning thing" that we weren't told about?

At the presser announcing the additional charge of murder, Sandra Rhodes states (2:09), "we have had some additional evidence that we located during the search that led us to the, giving us probable cause for the murder charge."

..."on the Moorer's property; inside their home and on the property."

[video=youtube;4fwrU7fT1hI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fwrU7fT1hI[/video]

Police photographed the home during the search. The report also says investigators learned something "which gave cause for concern during the investigation," but what was learned was redacted from the report.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_66cc6880-a9eb-11e3-926a-0017a43b2370.html

At the time of presser and shortly after, I took the "concerning thing" as DNA evidence which would give them probable cause. But, quickly learned after all these years that DNA is actually classified as circumstantial.

Looking at the search warrant report and the evidence collected, it's hard to determine what item(s) in the list that LE collected would give them probable cause without knowing the actual content and details. Like, the specific writings in the notebooks, information on computers, laptops, flash drives, cell phone messages, pictures, login info to websites (that may have answers or damning info), etc..

I'm pretty sure that the search warrant report (list) we all saw is only part of the full report LE did. As bolded above, the "concern" was redacted from that report.

Whatever was found to be "concerning" better well be worth a double-arrest for murder and stick in court! They got the DNA info wrong. Hopefully what we haven't seen or know will be the key to this case but, I'm not holding my breath. If the state had the "golden ticket", why not just come out and show it off?

 

[SStarr33]

At the presser announcing the additional charge of murder, Sandra Rhodes states (2:09), "we have had some additional evidence that we located during the search that led us to the, giving us probable cause for the murder charge."


Looking at the search warrant report and the evidence collected, it's hard to determine what item(s) in the list that LE collected would give them probable cause without knowing the actual content and details. Like, the specific writings in the notebooks, information on computers, laptops, flash drives, cell phone messages, pictures, login info to websites (that may have answers or damning info), etc..

I'm pretty sure that the search warrant report (list) we all saw is only part of the full report LE did. As bolded above, the "concern" was redacted from that report.

Whatever was found to be "concerning" better well be worth a double-arrest for murder and stick in court! They got the DNA info wrong. Hopefully what we haven't seen or know will be the key to this case but, I'm not holding my breath. If the state had the "golden ticket", why not just come out and show it off?

One of the FB pages has pointed out that not all of the pages of the warrants were released by the um....news. If you look at the numbering,the page that listed items 44h-44Q is missing.

 

[Motherof5]

At the presser announcing the additional charge of murder, Sandra Rhodes states (2:09), "we have had some additional evidence that we located during the search that led us to the, giving us probable cause for the murder charge."

..."on the Moorer's property; inside their home and on the property."

[video=youtube;4fwrU7fT1hI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fwrU7fT1hI[/video]

Police photographed the home during the search. The report also says investigators learned something "which gave cause for concern during the investigation," but what was learned was redacted from the report.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_66cc6880-a9eb-11e3-926a-0017a43b2370.html

At the time of presser and shortly after, I took the "concerning thing" as DNA evidence which would give them probable cause. But, quickly learned after all these years that DNA is actually classified as circumstantial.

Looking at the search warrant report and the evidence collected, it's hard to determine what item(s) in the list that LE collected would give them probable cause without knowing the actual content and details. Like, the specific writings in the notebooks, information on computers, laptops, flash drives, cell phone messages, pictures, login info to websites (that may have answers or damning info), etc..

I'm pretty sure that the search warrant report (list) we all saw is only part of the full report LE did. As bolded above, the "concern" was redacted from that report.

Whatever was found to be "concerning" better well be worth a double-arrest for murder and stick in court! They got the DNA info wrong. Hopefully what we haven't seen or know will be the key to this case but, I'm not holding my breath. If the state had the "golden ticket", why not just come out and show it off?

I was wondering if finding a cell phone that belongs to someone (JM) who was charged with criminal sex with an 11-14 yr old might be it considering the age of the M's daughter and the fact that JM may have been around her? That is concerning to me,anyway.

 

[Surfside]

One of the FB pages has pointed out that not all of the pages of the warrants were released by the um....news. If you look at the numbering,the page that listed items 44h-44Q is missing.

Sure makes you wonder what those things were and why the person who leaked the documents doesn't want anyone to know. :fishy:

 

[Hatfield]

At the presser announcing the additional charge of murder, Sandra Rhodes states (2:09), "we have had some additional evidence that we located during the search that led us to the, giving us probable cause for the murder charge."

..."on the Moorer's property; inside their home and on the property."

[video=youtube;4fwrU7fT1hI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fwrU7fT1hI[/video]

Police photographed the home during the search. The report also says investigators learned something "which gave cause for concern during the investigation," but what was learned was redacted from the report.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_66cc6880-a9eb-11e3-926a-0017a43b2370.html

At the time of presser and shortly after, I took the "concerning thing" as DNA evidence which would give them probable cause. But, quickly learned after all these years that DNA is actually classified as circumstantial.

Looking at the search warrant report and the evidence collected, it's hard to determine what item(s) in the list that LE collected would give them probable cause without knowing the actual content and details. Like, the specific writings in the notebooks, information on computers, laptops, flash drives, cell phone messages, pictures, login info to websites (that may have answers or damning info), etc..

I'm pretty sure that the search warrant report (list) we all saw is only part of the full report LE did. As bolded above, the "concern" was redacted from that report.

Whatever was found to be "concerning" better well be worth a double-arrest for murder and stick in court! They got the DNA info wrong. Hopefully what we haven't seen or know will be the key to this case but, I'm not holding my breath. If the state had the "golden ticket", why not just come out and show it off?

When I read just this part in the above

"."on the Moorer's property; inside their home and on the property.""

I think it was Blood. If it was, and if it was substantial amount and if it matched Heather's DNA, well, I think that would be good enough to me as a juror to convict them of murder if that was all found at their house and the video shows their vehicle leaving the landing area where her car was found and we have never heard from her again after that night.

Yeah, good enough for me if her blood is what was found.

 

[Hatfield]

Ok....I am convinced it was BLOOD. I just listened to the video again and she says something like this...."additional evidence found on the property (AND) in the home".

What else can be in 2 places at the same time besides blood. If you listen to her, she seems to be describing the same evidence and so I am concluding it was blood.
JMO of course.

I cant believe they did not search their home sooner than they did. I know it took them a little while to determine a suspect but jeeez. That was too long. Imagine what else they would have found if they could have searched sooner. They searched in Feb and she disappeared in Dec. That is too long they took to get a search warrent. Maybe they needed to convince a judge and it took them a long time to do that. So frustrating though.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_66cc6880-a9eb-11e3-926a-0017a43b2370.html

 

[Motherof5]

I would also like to know when exactly TM started keeping the journals about Heather and her family. Before or after Heather was missing? If she started them before...that will be very difficult to explain away and I suspect it was before.

 

[Hatfield]

I would also like to know when exactly TM started keeping the journals about Heather and her family. Before or after Heather was missing? If she started them before...that will be very difficult to explain away and I suspect it was before.

You are bringing up some great questions and points.

I am not sure about journals but back when all the FB drama was going on, I remember reading through a lot of things and I do recall seeing discussions on social media of where the alleged suspect was very upset with Heather. I believe it was even before the alleged "confrontation" that Heather had with someone on a street.

I am sure we have discussed about this before here and just mentioning it again to jog memories.

From what I recall , it is alleged that Heather got confronted by a person or 2 and was in a physical confrontation. She came to work with bruises I think and so people at her work can testify to that situation if it indeed happened. I dont know if Heather ever admitted to her work associates who she had the confrontation with though. She could have been embarrassed about it and maybe didnt tell anyone really what happened.

Hopefully she confided with someone exactly what happened. If that alleged confrontation really did occur.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

And was the slip and fall at TK real or was it a possible excuse used by Heather?

If it did actually happen at work, by law/company policy [citation needed] there should be an incident report and a visit to TK's doctor.

But then again, that place is not exactly on the "up and up" IMO.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

One of the FB pages has pointed out that not all of the pages of the warrants were released by the um....news. If you look at the numbering,the page that listed items 44h-44Q is missing.

Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out @SStarr33.

Goes to show you how MSM can unknowingly be manipulated if this is the case.

Also, I take the letters next to some of the items on pages 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12 as the initials for LEO who logged the item in (SH, BB, JM, NF, HB, MK, JD). Anyone care to second that?

From a previous post and looking at the document again, I count 18 pages if printed front and back (with one in fact being missing). The .pdf is 17 pages. So yes, where is page 18??? :thinking:

 

[Surfside]

Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out @SStarr33.

Goes to show you how MSM can unknowingly be manipulated if this is the case.

Also, I take the letters next to some of the items on pages 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12 as the initials for LEO who logged the item in (SH, BB, JM, NF, HB, MK, JD). Anyone care to second that?

From a previous post and looking at the document again, I count 18 pages if printed front and back (with one in fact being missing). The .pdf is 17 pages. So yes, where is page 18??? :thinking:

BBM: I'll second that, though, take my opinion FWIW. Remember, I'm the one who thought "RV" was a code or an LEO's initials, when it was the actual Mickey Camper.

 

[cujenn81]

Also, I take the letters next to some of the items on pages 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12 as the initials for LEO who logged the item in (SH, BB, JM, NF, HB, MK, JD). Anyone care to second that?

:

I'd second that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tabinmaine]

And was the slip and fall at TK real or was it a possible excuse used by Heather?

If it did actually happen at work, by law/company policy [citation needed] there should be an incident report and a visit to TK's doctor.

But then again, that place is not exactly on the "up and up" IMO.

Good question about the fall at work, she even stated that on her Twitter account , that she had fallen at work. Maybe she was too embarrassed to explain why a married woman attacked her....

 

[jillycat]

I think LE and the state will have a hard time with the claim that she was killed at PTL, they have no idea how, but all the blood evidence was at the M's property. If they found blood there, it would have made so much more sense to say she was kidnapped at PTL, then killed at the M's.

And I would think depending on how much blood, where, and in what way it was present (was it on a sheet, in a truck tool box, spattered somewhere, was there evidence of a gun being fired, etc. ?) could potentially be characterized as "consistent with a (fill in the blank) cause of death". But they've consistently said they have no idea how she died.

So what I think happened is they discovered spoiled meat and rotting potatoes, and kids not sleeping in their own rooms, and guns lying around and that was the "concerned" part. And I think the rest is more of the circumstantial trail that added to the case already building against the M's. Richardson has all but said that:

"I can tell you this isn't a case where we are looking for smoking gun, it was just the combination of evidence that was already there and the new evidence just added to that. So we don't have video of them killing her or anything along those lines," said Jimmy Richardson with the Horry County Solicitor's Office."

He went on to say this concerning the lack of a body:

"I mean we've done it several times you use circumstantial evidence in a lot of cases to say they are no longer here. You could also have direct evidence in some cases you would have DNA," said Richardson.

As solicitors continue to look through the evidence collected at the Moorer's home on Friday, Richardson said the prosecution will likely be in touch with both Tammy and Sidney Moorer's defense attorneys.

"Usually a defense attorney will come to you and say my client has information and they want to give information on this case. We don't promise them anything because in doing so you have basically bought their testimony. What we do promise them is we will consider their help in the election of the charges we bring against them and we will make the judge aware of how much they did help," said Richardson."

http://www.wbtw.com/story/24823249/horry-county-police-explain-whats-nex

It looks like to me LE was hoping the evidence/arrest would lead to at least one of the M's singing, but realized it might not budge them. Obviously, it thus far hasn't.

The above article is also where Richardson was quoted on future searches (perhaps badly, or perhaps his remark on ruling out locations was poorly worded...but he confirmed they weren't doing searches without leads):

"Nothing is ruled out. Things that have been searched already have not been ruled out there is no indication that [if] any information that comes to us that leads to an area that we've searched, that area will be searched again," said Lt. Robert Kegler with the Horry County Police Department.

Right now, Lt. Kegler said there are no searches scheduled. But he said that can change at any minute if tips lead detectives and the task force to a location."

They may have a wealth of circumstantial evidence that leaves no way out for the M's. I hope so. But I don't think they have blood or DNA, and we know they have nothing direct. So the connecting of the dots will have to be truly damning and able to endure defense challenges, which will be numerous. I've always felt that although the state has the right individuals, LE was under pressure to get them arrested in an atmosphere of chaos and theater and rage. I hope this doesn't further victimize Heather and her family in the end. If it does, social media and LE knee-jerking to its ripple effect will be center-stage in what went wrong. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I think LE and the state will have a hard time with the claim that she was killed at PTL, they have no idea how, but all the blood evidence was at the M's property. If they found blood there, it would have made so much more sense to say she was kidnapped at PTL, then killed at the M's.

And I would think depending on how much blood, where, and in what way it was present (was it on a sheet, in a truck tool box, spattered somewhere, was there evidence of a gun being fired, etc. ?) could potentially be characterized as "consistent with a (fill in the blank) cause of death". But they've consistently said they have no idea how she died.

So what I think happened is they discovered spoiled meat and rotting potatoes, and kids not sleeping in their own rooms, and guns lying around and that was the "concerned" part. And I think the rest is more of the circumstantial trail that added to the case already building against the M's. Richardson has all but said that:

"I can tell you this isn't a case where we are looking for smoking gun, it was just the combination of evidence that was already there and the new evidence just added to that. So we don't have video of them killing her or anything along those lines," said Jimmy Richardson with the Horry County Solicitor's Office."

He went on to say this concerning the lack of a body:

"I mean we've done it several times you use circumstantial evidence in a lot of cases to say they are no longer here. You could also have direct evidence in some cases you would have DNA," said Richardson.

As solicitors continue to look through the evidence collected at the Moorer's home on Friday, Richardson said the prosecution will likely be in touch with both Tammy and Sidney Moorer's defense attorneys.

"Usually a defense attorney will come to you and say my client has information and they want to give information on this case. We don't promise them anything because in doing so you have basically bought their testimony. What we do promise them is we will consider their help in the election of the charges we bring against them and we will make the judge aware of how much they did help," said Richardson."

http://www.wbtw.com/story/24823249/horry-county-police-explain-whats-nex

It looks like to me LE was hoping the evidence/arrest would lead to at least one of the M's singing, but realized it might not budge them. Obviously, it thus far hasn't.

The above article is also where Richardson was quoted on future searches (perhaps badly, or perhaps his remark on ruling out locations was poorly worded...but he confirmed they weren't doing searches without leads):

"Nothing is ruled out. Things that have been searched already have not been ruled out there is no indication that [if] any information that comes to us that leads to an area that we've searched, that area will be searched again," said Lt. Robert Kegler with the Horry County Police Department.

Right now, Lt. Kegler said there are no searches scheduled. But he said that can change at any minute if tips lead detectives and the task force to a location."

They may have a wealth of circumstantial evidence that leaves no way out for the M's. I hope so. But I don't think they have blood or DNA, and we know they have nothing direct. So the connecting of the dots will have to be truly damning and able to endure defense challenges, which will be numerous. I've always felt that although the state has the right individuals, LE was under pressure to get them arrested in an atmosphere of chaos and theater and rage. I hope this doesn't further victimize Heather and her family in the end. If it does, social media and LE knee-jerking to its ripple effect will be center-stage in what went wrong. JMO

Lots of good points.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

<snipped by me>

:goodpost:@jillycat

 

[jillycat]

:goodpost:@jillycat

Thank you. I try to stand back and see what I see.

 

[Dixie E]

I have been going over things that have happened from the start and was wondering about some things.

We all seen the picture of S with the groin area tattoo with Ts name and with a gun in the holster. Was that tattoo put their before or after T found out about H? If not, was she sending a message that no one was going to mess with her man and there was the gun to prove it. Was it put there after H disappeared to show what happens when you mess with her man. I wonder if that was something that she forced him to do. After all, she was handcuffing him to the bed and he allowed it ( out of fear, maybe) Wouldn`t that be like kind of holding you against your will.

Another thing.....with the IE charges........one story said that they occurred before H disappeared, and then there is a story that says "Donna Elder said that the Moorers admitted going to different areas of MB in the early morning hours AFTER the H disappeared to have sexual relations." So which is it? If they did it before the disappearance and sending the photos to H before the phone call, then they would have both been together and the plan was in motion. If it occurred afterwards, it would have been an alibi. But, I do remember reading somewhere that T had sent those pictures a while before H even disappeared. Like right after she found out about the affair and went into a total rage.
Also I wonder if there are any other cameras along the way from Conway to Broadway at the Beach area that may have caught their truck close to the time of the disappearance. There are so many things that just don`t make sense. Can`t wait to the trial begins.

 

[poppygirl]

so...looks like the search warrants for the Moorer residence were leaked to the press - I'm assuming we're allowed to discuss here? Though I personally hope they find and prosecute whoever leaked them, especially if they compromise this case in any way, shape, or form.

 

[scaredmomof2]

Regarding the leaked search warrants, I find it very interesting in Sydney's room, and Master Bedroom Closet, Items 32, 33, 34, 45, 48, 56, 57 states, "no item taken, photograph only."

Blood perhaps? What else can be so big LE couldn't take it with them? Handcuff marks on the bed possibly could be one photo, but six in two different rooms? And why did LE call it Sydney's room, not Master Bedroom? Also who keeps ten thousand dollars in cash in their house, "UNDER the stairs closet?" Especially parents of three kids with low income jobs. Someone ready to make a quick get away perhaps? Like i said, very interesting... JMO