EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[Surfside]

Every time I saw the pic of the gas station on 10th - I kept thinking that 'store' in the photo hasn't been there for a long time. It kept bothering me when I'd see people
Post wondering if they'd been in 'that store'. Maybe it was there last December.... I dunno but it's definitely not there now.

Looks like the current street view image from Google was taken October 2014, and it's still showing the "Touch of Romance" sign. Good catch!

 

[magnolia]

Skeptical detectives say they do not believe in coincidences in a homicide investigation. And, multiple coincidences become evidence. I tend to agree with this however, coincidences are inevitable.

In this case, there are a few that I am not buying and the hospital is one of them. I don't want to elaborate on it out of respect for the forum rules so, I'll just keep it at that.

I can't say exactly why the M's involved PTL, being that it was so close to their home, other than the fact that it is so close to their home. Another coincidence perhaps? I believe that PTL was a familiar place to SM and Heather. Whether or not they have met there before is speculative at best. Pretty much everyone from here (Myrtle Beach and Socastee particularly) knows where the landing is. I often venture to Enterprise landing which is closer to my home than Peachtree.

TM did in fact take SM's phone and called the Tilted Kilt Manager (BS). If she did it once then, there is not doubt in my mind she has direct access to his phone and would do it again or hold on to it completely. Just my opinion.

At the first bond hearing, The Solicitor, Donna Elder is the one who painted the picture of TM handcuffing SM to the bed and also accompanying him to work [to keep an eye on him]. It may have come from SM's mouth during police questioning but, the state and the defense are not denying its validity.

So, other than that, my stock in those statements given are vested as to what the prosecutors will be using in court.
LE does have proof of a journal. They collected journals (or, a diary as I mistakingly called it) during the search of the M's. <MSM HERE> I don't believe they dispelled the contents of these journals but, it was speculated that TM kept a record of the E's birth dates and other personal information about them. I have yet to see any proof of the contents of these said journals so, I will not speculate further. I just think the fact that LE specifically called them "journals" is quite telling IMO. They didn't call them notebooks or tablets. They called them journals. And to me, a journal is a place where someone goes to document ongoing events. To log information that may be referred back to or to keep a record of. To stalk IMO.

I'm one to question everything (for the most part). When it comes to a criminal investigation &#8211; I am especially a strong believer in being critical and detail oriented. Because, that's ultimately how to solve a case and make it stick in court.

So, what evidence does LE have that Heather drove to PTL @magnolia? I'd be excited to learn this! I've yet to see or hear what evidence they have to support their claim.

Like I've said before and I'll say it again, "Why can't LE just come out and say what they believed happened to Heather from start to finish?" Or, are they making it up as they go? I don't need all the details. Just a simple explanation, that's all.

:twocents:

Thanks PTF

The statement quoted below suggests LE has conclusive proof Heather drove herself to PTL. Do you agree or disagree?

Police do believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing. They don&#8217;t think she was abducted from her River Oaks apartment.

Investigators reached that conclusion after reviewing communications Elvis made through social media, but investigators haven&#8217;t said why Elvis drove herself to the boat landing.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crim...7a43b2370.html
​

I'm just trying to understand why this statement of proof has less validity than LE's statement of proof regarding the journal, etc.

BBM- I could ask you the same question regarding the journal. What exactly do they have? How lengthy is the alleged journal? What exactly does the alleged journal entail. Can the alleged journal be easily challenged by the defense.

 

[TTF14]

If they reached the conclusion that Heather drove herself to PTL based on communications made through social media, I wonder why they would not have shared that information at either bond hearing? They shared the threatening texts from TM that occurred earlier in the year, so why not share the social media messages as proof that Heather intended to drive herself there? Seems to me it would make their case to deny bond stronger.

 

[Madeleine74]

If they reached the conclusion that Heather drove herself to PTL based on communications made through social media, I wonder why they would not have shared that information at either bond hearing? They shared the threatening texts from TM that occurred earlier in the year, so why not share the social media messages as proof that Heather intended to drive herself there? Seems to me it would make their case to deny bond stronger.

Heather's social media activity and proving her movements to the public are not on trial, nor were they needed to determine whether the Moorer's should have received bond. The threatening texts, however do show a propensity for violence or at least the threat of violence and so those were germane to the states bond hearing because assessing risk is part of that process.

That the public is fascinated with every potential detail of the case and is speculating on every word uttered, every sentence published, and spends time creating theories and imagining evidence, with little or no facts to back it up, while waiting for official hearings and the trial to occur, is not a problem for the state to solve. The state's only job here is to present the evidence they have to a jury in a courtroom during a trial and to attempt to prove to that jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Heather was murdered and that the people who murdered her were the 2 defendants. And in a bond hearing, their only job is to demonstrate why or why not a defendant should be granted bond, and evidence that highlights the defendant's actions or propensity for violence or flight is what they have to present to the judge.

 

[EmmaRose]

Curious to see what the ruling will be on lifting the gag order.

 

[magnolia]

*Snipped for Brevity*


I can't say exactly why the M's involved PTL, being that it was so close to their home, other than the fact that it is so close to their home. Another coincidence perhaps? I believe that PTL was a familiar place to SM and Heather. Whether or not they have met there before is speculative at best. Pretty much everyone from here (Myrtle Beach and Socastee particularly) knows where the landing is. I often venture to Enterprise landing which is closer to my home than Peachtree.

TM did in fact take SM's phone and called the Tilted Kilt Manager (BS). If she did it once then, there is not doubt in my mind she has direct access to his phone and would do it again or hold on to it completely. Just my opinion.

At the first bond hearing, The Solicitor, Donna Elder is the one who painted the picture of TM handcuffing SM to the bed and also accompanying him to work [to keep an eye on him]. It may have come from SM's mouth during police questioning but, the state and the defense are not denying its validity.

*Snipped for Brevity*


:twocents:

To me, Heather's car/PTL is a clue the murder was planned after 3:17 A.M. or it was not planned at all. Of all the secluded areas around MB,why on earth would the defendants chose a place so close to their home and a place HE may have told her friends about.

Of course Donna Elder threw out Sidney's handcuff story. She was trying to paint a certain picture so the Judge would deny bond for TM. This was early on when the defense was not privy to all the evidence. They had not yet planned their strategy. They were not going to stick the 'ol foot in mouth and say or deny something they might regret at a later date.

 

[Motherof5]

Curious to see what the ruling will be on lifting the gag order.

If they lift the gag order,I give TM all of 2 minutes before she starts flapping her jaws. " My husband is fabulous. So what if he helped my father beat our neighbor, he's a thief like me, he lies through his teeth and he was the last person,besides me, to talk to Heather before she was missing. He's madly in love with his amazingly gorgeous woman...that's me!! This is all a big misunderstanding. We didn't kidnap or murder Heather,even though we are the only people with a motive and it sure does look like we did it. We also didn't commit fraud. We are entitled to simply take whatever we want. Obstruction? We don't have to be truthful about anything at any time. Indecent exposure? Hello!! How many times do I have to state that I'm Sidney's amazingly gorgeous woman? Who wouldn't want to be exposed to me? That was just us doing a public service,really. I don't understand why people can't just leave us alone? We're really good people. I believe my mother stated this in her interview."

 

[SStarr33]

Curious to see what the ruling will be on lifting the gag order.

I would like to know how we got details from a search warrant from MHN with the gag order in place.

 

[LBDunes]

I would like to know how we got details from a search warrant from MHN with the gag order in place.

I asked MHN on their fb page what was the source of the details of the search warrants. I did not receive an answer. To me it was obvious that the source was mostly TM's mother. JMO

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Thanks PTF

The statement quoted below suggests LE has conclusive proof Heather drove herself to PTL. Do you agree or disagree?

Police do believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing. They don&#8217;t think she was abducted from her River Oaks apartment.

Investigators reached that conclusion after reviewing communications Elvis made through social media, but investigators haven&#8217;t said why Elvis drove herself to the boat landing.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crim...7a43b2370.html

I'm just trying to understand why this statement of proof has less validity than LE's statement of proof regarding the journal, etc.

BBM- I could ask you the same question regarding the journal. What exactly do they have? How lengthy is the alleged journal? What exactly does the alleged journal entail. Can the alleged journal be easily challenged by the defense.

I agree that LE has reached the conclusion but not that the communications Elvis made through social media are conclusive as you state. Conclusive and conclusion are two different words with different meanings.

conclusive
​

1. 
   [*=1]showing that something is certainly true

​

conclude
​

1. 
   [*=1]to stop or finish; to come to an end; to end in a particular way or with a particular action
   [*=1]to cause (something) to stop or finish; to end (something) in a particular way or with a particular action
   [*=1]to form or state (an opinion); to decide (something) after a period of thought or research

As an example:

Investigators conclude that Elvis drove herself to PTL based off of communications she made through social media.

vs.

Investigators have conclusive evidence that Elvis drove herself to PTL based off of communications she made through social media.​

Furthermore, from the different MSM articles regarding Heather driving to PTL, the language and statements differ a bit. LE also states that in addition to social media messages, they also believe that phone records back up this theory as well:

Posted: Thursday, February 6, 2014 4:43 pm | Updated: 9:29 am, Sat Jul 26, 2014.

Elvis drove herself to boat landing

In a new development, police strongly believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing in Socastee, where her 2001 Dodge Intrepid was discovered abandoned on Dec. 19.

"We're fairly comfortable that she drove there herself," Rhodes said.

Police do not think someone drove Elvis from River Oaks Drive to the boat landing.

Investigators also believe Elvis made it to the boat landing, but investigators would not elaborate about why Elvis drove to the boat landing or what may have happened when she arrived.

"Everything indicates that she drove there," said Lt. Chip Squires, the task force leader. "We do not have anything that indicates she did not drive there."

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 1:50 pm | Updated: 10:09 am, Fri Jul 25, 2014.

Arrest warrants released Monday state Elvis was kidnapped and murdered at the boat landing.

Elvis, 20, disappeared some time in the early morning hours of Dec. 18. Her car was found at the Peachtree Boat Landing in Socastee the evening of Dec. 19, but the whereabouts of Elvis herself remain a mystery.

[&#8230;]

Police do believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing. They don&#8217;t think she was abducted from her River Oaks apartment.

Investigators reached that conclusion after reviewing communications Elvis made through social media, but investigators haven&#8217;t said why Elvis drove herself to the boat landing.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_9134b14e-9d67-11e3-a5f5-0017a43b2370.html

Posted: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:35 pm | Updated: 10:08 am, Fri Jul 25, 2014.

Horry County police have said in interviews that Elvis drove herself to the boat landing some time Dec. 18. Her 2001 Dodge Intrepid was found at the boat landing around 10:43 p.m Dec. 19, Kegler has said.

Police have not said what her exact times of departure and arrival were. They did say they learned Elvis drove herself to Peachtree after reviewing her social media messages and phone records.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_0fc542b6-a0a7-11e3-ba44-001a4bcf6878.html

So IMO, the theory that Heather drove herself to PTL is just that, a theory. No different than any of our theories based off of what evidence we know at this point. LE certainly has more than we do. The social media communications that we are not privy to could certainly indicate Heather's intentions of driving to PTL. They could suggest that she had plans to leave her apartment to go someplace. From the language of MSM reports of LE's conclusions, I don't get that they had "definitive proof" from these communications that she in fact left her apartment to meet SM at PTL. They are only inferring that she left based on her conversation with BW, whatever was communicated on social media, and various phone records.

LE also stated that they are "fairly comfortable" that she drove there herself but will not elaborate why or what may have happened when she arrived.

With LE's theory, I assume that they also believe Heather was in full control of her phone at all times of the night until the signal died at 3:41AM (or as early as 6AM - which still needs to be confirmed)? I'm yet to see any evidence to confirm this one way or another. So, I am keeping myself open to other theories. I don't deny she may have drove to PTL but, what's to say she wasn't alone either?

As far as the journals go, there may be some good evidence in there (that is documented) to show premeditation and/or that Heather was being stalked. Without knowing the exact content of these journals and what the communications were on social media that night, it's hard to compare the two. There may not even be much in the journals that is damning or illegal. And the sm communications may be vague.

So, in terms of their validity, it all depends on their content. The sm messages could be weak while the journal entires could be strong or vice versa. Either of which could surely be contested by the defense. The fact that a journal in and of itself is a physical object, that a jury can hold in their hands, is far more convincing than a sm post online IMO. Let's just hope they have some useable evidence in those pages.

I don't think there are any "smoking guns" in this case or have yet to see any.

:twocents:

 

[stillwatersc]

Has there ever been anything - as to where TM & SM said they were say from 9 p.m. - 3 a.m. that night? Specifically I mean? (Out to dinner, etc).

Also - to go along with a couple of others with different theories......since SM used the payphone at the gas station that sits right on a 'strip' of gentlemen's clubs --- anyone ever wonder if he had been at one - might've been drinking.... decided to call his 'girl'.... <<---Just a thought that came into my mind -- as I read (like one person posted) if TM had tracked him and showed up and took his truck and left him stranded.....it was a very short walk to that payphone....

Trying to avoid 17 & get on 501 last night from Target, I cut down Seaboard. OMG! I didn't know there were so many tattoo parlors in MB. Yes there are a few adult clubs right behind that payphone - in the direction that SM apparently came from. And we know he frequented those types of places in the past. One of his family members told the media that SM met TM at one. I will avoid that street in the future, it was so bad I thought my tire was going flat.

Hoppy = that is a pretty good guess that SM was clubbing & drinking, but I think TM was with him. (Or maybe he was getting some work done on his TANNNY tat)

 

[Surfside]

Trying to avoid 17 & get on 501 last night from Target, I cut down Seaboard. OMG! I didn't know there were so many tattoo parlors in MB. Yes there are a few adult clubs right behind that payphone - in the direction that SM apparently came from. And we know he frequented those types of places in the past. One of his family members told the media that SM met TM at one. I will avoid that street in the future, it was so bad I thought my tire was going flat.

Hoppy = that is a pretty good guess that SM was clubbing & drinking, but I think TM was with him. (Or maybe he was getting some work done on his TANNNY tat)

BBM: Ugh! I hate that stretch. Ba-bump-ba-bump-ba-bump-ba-bump.

 

[magnolia]

I agree that LE has reached the conclusion but not that the communications Elvis made through social media are conclusive as you state. Conclusive and conclusion are two different words with different meanings.

conclusive
​

1. 
   [*=1]showing that something is certainly true

​

conclude
​

1. 
   [*=1]to stop or finish; to come to an end; to end in a particular way or with a particular action
   [*=1]to cause (something) to stop or finish; to end (something) in a particular way or with a particular action
   [*=1]to form or state (an opinion); to decide (something) after a period of thought or research

As an example:

Investigators conclude that Elvis drove herself to PTL based off of communications she made through social media.

vs.

Investigators have conclusive evidence that Elvis drove herself to PTL based off of communications she made through social media.​

Furthermore, from the different MSM articles regarding Heather driving to PTL, the language and statements differ a bit. LE also states that in addition to social media messages, they also believe that phone records back up this theory as well:





So IMO, the theory that Heather drove herself to PTL is just that, a theory. No different than any of our theories based off of what evidence we know at this point. LE certainly has more than we do. The social media communications that we are not privy to could certainly indicate Heather's intentions of driving to PTL. They could suggest that she had plans to leave her apartment to go someplace. From the language of MSM reports of LE's conclusions, I don't get that they had "definitive proof" from these communications that she in fact left her apartment to meet SM at PTL. They are only inferring that she left based on her conversation with BW, whatever was communicated on social media, and various phone records.

LE also stated that they are "fairly comfortable" that she drove there herself but will not elaborate why or what may have happened when she arrived.

With LE's theory, I assume that they also believe Heather was in full control of her phone at all times of the night until the signal died at 3:41AM (or as early as 6AM - which still needs to be confirmed)? I'm yet to see any evidence to confirm this one way or another. So, I am keeping myself open to other theories. I don't deny she may have drove to PTL but, what's to say she wasn't alone either?

As far as the journals go, there may be some good evidence in there (that is documented) to show premeditation and/or that Heather was being stalked. Without knowing the exact content of these journals and what the communications were on social media that night, it's hard to compare the two. There may not even be much in the journals that is damning or illegal. And the sm communications may be vague.

So, in terms of their validity, it all depends on their content. The sm messages could be weak while the journal entires could be strong or vice versa. Either of which could surely be contested by the defense. The fact that a journal in and of itself is a physical object, that a jury can hold in their hands, is far more convincing than a sm post online IMO. Let's just hope they have some useable evidence in those pages.

I don't think there are any "smoking guns" in this case or have yet to see any.

:twocents:

​

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conclusive
of, relating to, or being a conclusion

Conclusive evidence is of such a nature that it compels a fact finder to come to a certain conclusion.

Respectfully PTF, your prior posts reflect selective belief of statements made by LE. Most statements go unquestioned, while LE's conclusion in regards to Heather driving herself to PTL seems to not be believed.

Yes, a journal in and of itself is a physical object that a jury can hold. However, what does this journal consist of ? Is this an actual journal or just a few newspaper articles. When was it started? A month, a couple of wks. or a few days before it was confiscated. Can the defense come up with a reasonable explanation for what was found. Not saying this is what I believe. Just pointing out a few problems the prosecution could have with the alleged journal.


IMO

 

[PeterThomasFan]

LE concludes that Heather drove herself [alone] to PTL based off of her social media messages and phone records. They have no other info/evidence that indicates otherwise.

LEO

 

[Dixie E]

LE say that H was murdered at PTL. How can they even say that if they don`t have proof? Or do they? Maybe they are not telling everything. Did they find shell casings, a rope, or ect. at the landing? Was it written in a journal or some info on a computer? I first thought that the DNA in the Ms vehicle was the proof, but, now that isn`t the case. It was found in Hs car instead. So I am hoping that they do have solid proof that she was actually murdered at PTL like they claim, or this case does not stand a chance.

 

[Madeleine74]

Just a hint for those new to following murder cases: LE never ever tells all they have. Ditto the DAs. Not until trial. Whatever statements you hear or read in the media, that's never the whole case and the evidence is not laid out for the public to see before trial. It's this way in 100% of the cases, 100% of the time. The public's curiosity is not a concern that LE needs to address, nor will they. They might make some statements here and there, depending on the jurisdiction and the policies of the department, especially if there is a killer that is still loose, but at no time will they lay out all their evidence until the DA or ADA does so during trial, through witness testimony.

 

[NFYIAMY]

If I recall correctly from the first bond hearing - it was (at the very least implied) that this 'journal' started around the time TM found out about Heather. They said it contained personal info - not just about Heather - but about her family, too (birthdays, addresses - maybe even where some of them worked? Can't remember exactly but it was definitely along those lines. Pretty sure I posted more details way back then). I don't believe there was a "confession" in it by any means (or we would've heard about that) - but it might very well show that they were trying to come up with a PLAN to murder heather - and maybe try to find a way to pin it on one of her family members -- or maybe do it in a way they could connect it back to her family (and not them?)? I dunno - but am very interested to hear more details about it at trial.

 

[SeeAlice]

If I recall correctly from the first bond hearing - it was (at the very least implied) that this 'journal' started around the time TM found out about Heather. They said it contained personal info - not just about Heather - but about her family, too (birthdays, addresses - maybe even where some of them worked? Can't remember exactly but it was definitely along those lines. Pretty sure I posted more details way back then). I don't believe there was a "confession" in it by any means (or we would've heard about that) - but it might very well show that they were trying to come up with a PLAN to murder heather - and maybe try to find a way to pin it on one of her family members -- or maybe do it in a way they could connect it back to her family (and not them?)? I dunno - but am very interested to hear more details about it at trial.

Having been through a friend being the woman scorned (and no one ending up dead, I should note,) she started a notebook to reconstruct how long the affair had gone on and how serious it was. She got her husband's cell phone call and text logs and ran down who all of the numbers belonged to - including the other woman's friends and family. She cross-referenced it with ATM withdrawals & credit card charges. She looked at her own emails to see what was going on in their lives and their relationship at the times her husband was talking to and meeting with the other woman. It turned out his affair had gone on for a little over a year.

JMO - When you find out the person in the ultimate position of trust in your life has been lying to you and has been unfaithful, this is not unusual behavior. It's not advisable though. It was so painful to watch all she put herself through. I was as surprised as she was but I can't imagine how bad it hurt.

I'm not taking up for TM or anyone else, just trying to lend some insight into what may have been going on as far as a journal.

JMO

 

[Surfside]

Having been through a friend being the woman scorned (and no one ending up dead, I should note,) she started a notebook to reconstruct how long the affair had gone on and how serious it was. She got her husband's cell phone call and text logs and ran down who all of the numbers belonged to - including the other woman's friends and family. She cross-referenced it with ATM withdrawals. She looked at her own emails to see what was going on in their lives and their relationship at the times her husband was talking to and meeting with the other woman. It turned out his affair had gone on for a little over a year.

JMO - When you find out the person in the ultimate position of trust in your life has been lying to you and has been unfaithful, this is not unusual behavior. It's not advisable though. It was so painful to watch all she put herself through. I was as surprised as she was but I can't imagine how bad it hurt.

I'm not taking up for TM or anyone else, just trying to lend some insight into what may have been going on as far as a journal.

JMO

This is a really good point. Not to say that it applies to this case, but it could. I mean, I turned into Cagney or Lacey or both when this happened to me in my first marriage. And since I dragged my best friend into my crazy orbit, I'd like to say thank you for being there for your friend's (hopefully) temporary insanity.

No spouses were harmed in the making of my crazy, either.

 

[SeeAlice]

This is a really good point. Not to say that it applies to this case, but it could. I mean, I turned into Cagney or Lacey or both when this happened to me in my first marriage. And since I dragged my best friend into my crazy orbit, I'd like to say thank you for being there for your friend's (hopefully) temporary insanity.

No spouses were harmed in the making of my crazy, either.

I'm very sorry you had to experience that (but very glad you didn't end up being in a thread here on WS, lol.)

I suspect I would react the same way even knowing how masochistic it is.