Explain BDI to me

Staging and altering the crime scene after JonBenet was already dead. John and Patsy were both involved in the cover-up (just like the RGJ charged them).

I think you are one of the most articulate, well informed posters on this forum, Otg , but the whole JB and BR playing "kitty" theory just seems completely improbable to me.

1. I would have to believe that Burke fashioned a cord with a stick to make a kind of leash and then , for some unknown reason, during this game, Burke became so enraged that he bashed JB over the head with some heavy object that just happened to be at hand.

2. I would have to believe that Patsy and/or John found JonBenet's body there in the basement, and that for some reason, Patsy untied the knots of the cord and retied them (thus depositing her jacket fibers in the knot).

3. And I would have to figure out some scenario where no physical evidence connected to Burke was ever found on the "garrotte".

Not exactly Occam's razor.

The simplest BDI theory is that Burke and Jonbenet were downstairs, Burke got pissed, grabbed JB by the shirt collar, she broke free, he chased her with the flashlight and bashed her in the head. All the staging was done by Patsy (who left physical evidence) and the story was backed up by John. I just don't see any need to try to explain how and why Burke might have made or used the "garrote". I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest that he did. As far as Burke's tDNA being found on the Barbie nightgown...meh. He lived in the house, he obviously would have touched his sister frequently, we don't know when this nightgown was washed, when it was worn, where it was prior to being in the wine cellar, etc. etc.

All JMO, and posted with respect.
 
I think you are one of the most articulate, well informed posters on this forum, Otg , but the whole JB and BR playing "kitty" theory just seems completely improbable to me.

1. I would have to believe that Burke fashioned a cord with a stick to make a kind of leash and then , for some unknown reason, during this game, Burke became so enraged that he bashed JB over the head with some heavy object that just happened to be at hand.

2. I would have to believe that Patsy and/or John found JonBenet's body there in the basement, and that for some reason, Patsy untied the knots of the cord and retied them (thus depositing her jacket fibers in the knot).

3. And I would have to figure out some scenario where no physical evidence connected to Burke was ever found on the "garrotte".

Not exactly Occam's razor.

The simplest BDI theory is that Burke and Jonbenet were downstairs, Burke got pissed, grabbed JB by the shirt collar, she broke free, he chased her with the flashlight and bashed her in the head. All the staging was done by Patsy (who left physical evidence) and the story was backed up by John. I just don't see any need to try to explain how and why Burke might have made or used the "garrote". I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest that he did. As far as Burke's tDNA being found on the Barbie nightgown...meh. He lived in the house, he obviously would have touched his sister frequently, we don't know when this nightgown was washed, when it was worn, where it was prior to being in the wine cellar, etc. etc.

All JMO, and posted with respect.

The problem I have with that is that I can't believe that Patsy would have strangled her daughter to death - for any reason. If she found JBR knocked unconscious and sexually abused I think she would have called 911 and hoped for the best - especially since it wasn't obvious how serious the head wound was.
 
I think you are one of the most articulate, well informed posters on this forum, Otg , but the whole JB and BR playing "kitty" theory just seems completely improbable to me.
I don’t think anything I can say will change your mind, Mountain_Kat, but I appreciate your telling me the reasons you find the scenario unlikely that I laid out. So with the same respect for different views you expressed, I’ll try to answer your points because I don’t think you really understood the main point of what I wrote. That main point being that the paintbrush was not in any way tied or connected to the cord when the strangulation happened. I’ll address your points one at a time:


1. I would have to believe that Burke fashioned a cord with a stick to make a kind of leash and then , for some unknown reason, during this game, Burke became so enraged that he bashed JB over the head with some heavy object that just happened to be at hand.
No, the paintbrush was not attached to the cord when she was strangled. I obviously don’t know what the reason was that the cord was tied around her neck -- I only speculated that as a possibility based on what Patsy had said about her playing “kitty.” I don’t think he struck out in anger -- just a quick, knee-jerk reaction to stop the scream (which I do believe happened). The “some heavy object” is certainly more likely (IMO) than the Maglite -- especially if used the way Spitz has demonstrated in the past.


2. I would have to believe that Patsy and/or John found JonBenet's body there in the basement, and that for some reason, Patsy untied the knots of the cord and retied them (thus depositing her jacket fibers in the knot).
Patsy’s jacket fibers don’t necessarily mean that “Patsy untied the knots of the cord and retied them.” What I wrote was that the cord which had already tightened and caused her death was cut under the strain of her body weight (look at the two frayed ends of the two sections of cord). Patsy’s jacket fibers could have been shed on anything there in the basement where she and John were trying to stage this thing and then tied into the knots. The “some reason” for doing this rearranging was actually twofold. (1) It made the ligature look like something it wasn’t thus confounding everyone who looks at it making them think it is some kind of “sophisticated garrote,” and (2) it throws suspicion away from the paintbrush as being a device used in an adolescent sexual assault. They didn’t know that the autopsy would reveal all that it did. They didn’t know a splinter from the paintbrush would be found inside her. They tried to completely erase any evidence of the sexual aspects of what happened (wiping away the blood and disposing of a probably bloody pair of panties) thinking perhaps that if it wasn’t obvious the medical examiner wouldn’t do a close examination of her genitals. But the paintbrush end used in the sexual assault probably had blood and body fluids on it that would absorb into the fibers of the wood. That’s why that end had to be broken off and disappear so it would never be found.


3. And I would have to figure out some scenario where no physical evidence connected to Burke was ever found on the "garrotte".

Not exactly Occam's razor.
We don’t know much of the evidence that was found. There is still information being provided by some of the current specials being shown on TV. Most of what we do know has been “leaked” or told in books and on television programs. We only know about Patsy’s fibers because of the questioning in her interviews and because investigators have written books and disclosed that part of what was found. Yet one of the things that was leaked (“Burke's tDNA being found on the Barbie nightgown...,” you dismiss with a simple “meh.” While I agree that that one thing is not in itself a smoking gun because of all the innocent explanations you provided (and I agree with), it can’t simply be dismissed with selective significance.


The simplest BDI theory is that Burke and Jonbenet were downstairs, Burke got pissed, grabbed JB by the shirt collar, she broke free, he chased her with the flashlight and bashed her in the head. All the staging was done by Patsy (who left physical evidence) and the story was backed up by John. I just don't see any need to try to explain how and why Burke might have made or used the "garrote". I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest that he did. As far as Burke's tDNA being found on the Barbie nightgown...meh. He lived in the house, he obviously would have touched his sister frequently, we don't know when this nightgown was washed, when it was worn, where it was prior to being in the wine cellar, etc. etc.

All JMO, and posted with respect.
While that might be the “simplest BDI theory,” (and it’s also pretty close to what Kolar has hinted at) it doesn’t account for all we know, and it’s making assumptions about motives in the same way I have to do to explain how I think the evidence fits. I even provided links to information that backs up what I’ve based my opinion on.

Like I say, I don’t think any of this will change your mind. I’m used to that. I was saying BDI for long before hardly anyone would even consider it. As the years have gone by, more and more people are beginning to see BDI at least as a possibility because it explains all of the baffling behaviors of the parents, investigators, the grand jury, the true bills, and anything else that is hard to understand. My theory may very well be wrong. But it fits with the evidence we know, it doesn’t mean that anyone involved with it was a “monster” or a psychopath, and it doesn’t attribute a loving parent (by all accounts) with the capability to cold-heartedly choke the life out of their child to “finish her off.”
 
The problem I have with that is that I can't believe that Patsy would have strangled her daughter to death - for any reason. If she found JBR knocked unconscious and sexually abused I think she would have called 911 and hoped for the best - especially since it wasn't obvious how serious the head wound was.
What if the head wound wasn't even known about by the parents when they found her dead? It wasn't even obvious to the ME until he had cut open and peeled back her scalp. Maybe the head bash wasn't volunteered information the parents were given. What if by the time the parents found her, she was already dead and obviously strangled and sexually assaulted. What if presented with that, they decided to stage the whole thing to look like something completely different so no one would know exactly what happened, and then they completely wrote out any association with Burke or even her being awake when they got home to eliminate the rest of the family?
 
So...how does an innocent game of "kitty" between Burke and JonBenet explain the fibers from Patsy's jacket in the paint tote and in the knots of the cord that made up the "garrotte" ?

I'm positive Patsy stated that JonBenet played "Kitty" with Daphne White, not Burke. (I'll do my best to locate the source.)
 
As always, Otg, thank you so much for your post.

You have answered a question that has been bothering me. First I thought I understood (and I was incorrect) that the cord around her neck was just assembled for "staging".
It wasn't until I truly understood that J.B. had been violently strangled with the cord - it is sickening to see the deep mark on her neck - absolutely horrifying.
So then I realized that a parent could not have used a garrote to do this to anyone they loved. I think it is impossible to think this was done just for
'staging'.

So thank you Otg for helping me understand that whomever hit J.B. on the head then violently strangled her.

Then the staging took place - with the garrote assembled and the blanket placed on her.

My theories have definitely changed over the past week. Things are becoming much clearer to me.

I look forward to D.P's next show but I am extremely interested in the CBS special coming up which I have come to think is the catalyst for
why Burke agreed to the interviews and of course J.R. is there too!

Thanks again Otg ! Your insight, observations and meticulous research with regard to all of the details in this case is remarkable, to say the least !
 
What if the head wound wasn't even known about by the parents when they found her dead? It wasn't even obvious to the ME until he had cut open and peeled back her scalp. Maybe the head bash wasn't volunteered information the parents were given. What if by the time the parents found her, she was already dead and obviously strangled and sexually assaulted. What if presented with that, they decided to stage the whole thing to look like something completely different so no one would know exactly what happened, and then they completely wrote out any association with Burke or even her being awake when they got home to eliminate the rest of the family?

Now that scenario I find very believable. And Burke's interview with DP only reinforces my belief.
 
Thanks otg for putting into words what I found difficult to do. I have been BDI for years but have problems expressing myself.. I do not believe that Patsy could have actually strangled her daughter. I believe she was deceased when Patsy found her. Everything done from that point was to point away from Burke.
 
Thanks otg for putting into words what I found difficult to do. I have been BDI for years but have problems expressing myself.. I do not believe that Patsy could have actually strangled her daughter. I believe she was deceased when Patsy found her. Everything done from that point was to point away from Burke.

I agree with this so much... The "Stagers" found their daughter already dead... Nothing else makes sense regarding RDI... I do believe it was a horrible accident, but the fact that JBR was sexually violated, producing blood on her legs, and strangled caused the parents to see the kidnapping scenario as the only way to preserve their son's reputation as well as their own. If they had found her alive I believe they would have called 911.

The things that make IDI impossible for me to believe is not only the ransom note, but the fact that JBR was cleaned up. If IDI then what was the purpose of doing that?
 
I agree with this so much... The "Stagers" found their daughter already dead... Nothing else makes sense regarding RDI... I do believe it was a horrible accident, but the fact that JBR was sexually violated, producing blood on her legs, and strangled caused the parents to see the kidnapping scenario as the only way to preserve their son's reputation as well as their own. If they had found her alive I believe they would have called 911.

The things that make IDI impossible for me to believe is not only the ransom note, but the fact that JBR was cleaned up. If IDI then what was the purpose of doing that?

How does one accidently strangle an unconscious person to death?
 
How does one accidently strangle an unconscious person to death?
My post was in reference to otg's post of how the strangulation happened and when. There was no way to hide or omit the strangulation marks on her neck. They just took up where B left off. This is my own opinion.
 
I believe they agreed to cover (for Burke?) but they did not agree on how to go about it, which is why we have a cover up that makes no sense and J&P distant. Towards the end the ransom note reads like an angry wife, also.

100% ON THIS !!!!!I I fully think its a cover up , there is nothing else that makes any kind of sense !!!! and the stress of it they did all kinds of things that pointed 40 different directions ...stun gun marks , garrot etc burke aid clearly he did go downstairs....and the pineapple ...so what If patsy's prints were on the bowl i've grabbed for a bowl and changed my mind a lot !
 
My post was in reference to otg's post of how the strangulation happened and when. There was no way to hide or omit the strangulation marks on her neck. They just took up where B left off. This is my own opinion.

So the parents knew she wasn't dead, but there were some garrote marks on her neck so they thought - oh well, better finish her off so we can cover this all up? Wow, you must think John and/or Patsy were monsters.
 
I'm wondering if the stager(s) thought she was dead already when they found her?

I think the stagers thought she was dead when they found her too- but I'm thinking it had to be extremely obvious that she was dead for them not to call for help.
 
How does one accidently strangle an unconscious person to death?

If that person had a rope around their neck, with a slip knot, and the other end of the rope was secured to a doorknob or anything really, and that person was whacked in the head rendering them unconscious, they would fall and the cord around their neck would tighten causing strangulation if they were not freed within a couple of minutes.
 
So the parents knew she wasn't dead, but there were some garrote marks on her neck so they thought - oh well, better finish her off so we can cover this all up? Wow, you must think John and/or Patsy were monsters.

No they weren't monsters... They found her dead, with no hope of reviving her. They staged the garrote to make it look like an intruder came in and murdered her. If she was found hanging they cut her down, and added the handle, and used the rest of the cord to tie the wrists. And cleaned her up to hide the fact that she was molested.
 
I think the stagers thought she was dead when they found her too- but I'm thinking it had to be extremely obvious that she was dead for them not to call for help.

Agreed. She had to be obviously dead... Otherwise they would have called 911. They knew there was no hope. So they did what they could to salvage their son's future - and their own reputations.
 
So the parents knew she wasn't dead, but there were some garrote marks on her neck so they thought - oh well, better finish her off so we can cover this all up? Wow, you must think John and/or Patsy were monsters.

NO johnjay, I clearly posted I think Patsy found her after she was deceased. I in no way meant I think they are monsters and finished their daughter off. Sorry, but I don't post much because I have trouble putting my thoughts into words. This is why I just sit back and read and let people smarter than myself post.
 
Agreed. She had to be obviously dead... Otherwise they would have called 911. They knew there was no hope. So they did what they could to salvage their son's future - and their own reputations.

I agree! As I have posted before I do not think Patsy could have strangled her daughter.
 

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